Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
CRU hacked: Climategate?
#21
scpg02 Wrote:
mv Wrote:The Death Blow to Climate Science

Written by Dr. Ball. Very nice gentleman!

Amen to that! A very fine gentleman, if I say so myself.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#22
JohnWho Wrote:Now that you mention it, that "fifth warmest year" phrase sounds like it came from Hansen, too.

2009 probably is the fifth warmest as long as one uses manipulated, unverifiable data.

It is a political statement.
Reply
#23
mv Wrote:As for the smoking gun, Times agrees with Buzz Wink1

Boston Herald == NY Times

Quote:“This is not a smoking gun, this is a mushroom cloud,” climatologist Patrick J. Michaels told the New York Times

I totally agree, and Buzz is wrong. Here is why.

What this does is cast a dark cloud within the scientific community. And I am not just talking about the climate science community. ALL of it. The overwhelming majority of scientists still believe that science is science, and it should be pursued honestly and factually. That includes geology, Paleontology, Anthropology, etc, etc, etc. These revelations will show All branches of science that there is one side of the climate debate, which has been dishonest, and willing to take underhanded actions, AT THE EXPENSE OF SCIENCE.

And while the layman world may not see this shake down immediately, it is going to cause ripples throughout the entire world. Publications, such as Nature, and other prestigious science publications are going to come under horrendous pressure to clean up the act, by other fields. And it does not matter what your field is. If you lose respect from other fields, you may as well kiss your 'backside' goodbye.

This is going to immediately cause one hell of an impact in the science community, and my guess is that even if it is not all that explicit, its implicity to foul play, is going to shake up the field.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#24
The assumption of integrity among the scientists is faulty; however, the analysis above may still be valid, since scientists have to pretend they have some.

Meanwhile, Guardian.
Sanders 2020

Reply
#25
mv Wrote:The assumption of integrity among the scientists is faulty; however, the analysis above may still be valid, since scientists have to pretend they have some.

Meanwhile, Guardian.

That Guardian article is really bad since he does not want to admit that those e-mails are damning all by themselves.He also calls skeptics deniers.... several times.

Trying to claim that they are taken out of context is stupid because there have been entire e-mail messages posted,clearly showing the ENTIRE context in them,with replying e-mails in return.

I do agree that a case for a widespread conspiracy is weak,just a few guys who in irregular fashion try something unethical or possibly consider illegal actions.
Reply
#26
Check the affiliation of the Guardian author -- his bias should not be surprising. But his hysteria is enjoyable.


Also:

On AGW coding tricks

The problems with 1960 cited in the code are directly connected to the Mann's Hockey Stick, this is how it was born.

More on this.
Sanders 2020

Reply
#27
Interview with T.Ball:

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/0000000000000535

The Times
Sanders 2020

Reply
#28
The silence from alarmist apologists in this forum is amusing.

Wink1
Reply
#29
mv Wrote:The assumption of integrity among the scientists is faulty; however, the analysis above may still be valid, since scientists have to pretend they have some.

Meanwhile, Guardian.

Your cynicism is evident here. Most scientists have integrity, and are going to do the right thing. It is the minority, who are not. And even many of them will try to look that way.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#30
John L Wrote:Your cynicism is evident here. Most scientists have integrity, and are going to do the right thing.

Untrue (and this is based on decades of academia, not hearsay). I happen to know one of this gang members and a plenty of similar personae from other fields.

You are wrong if you are seeing scientists as incorruptible sources of knowledge...they are ordinary people very prone to corruption, and $'s corrupt.

Scientists are concerned about more mundane things than integrity, things like publishing and getting grants. Funding is particularly important, since there is never enough of it to go around.

How bad is the situation depends on the area; the worst are those where large funding is primarily from non-industry source. Climate "science" is just such a case. The setup is very prone to cabal-forming, where a group of single-minded people try to usurp the funding; if there is a prevailing ideology (like AGW), the funding is directed along the ideology lines, not just personal ties, and leads to "majority opinions" in due course.

Areas with industry connections (engineering) or limited funding (math) are healthier, cabals still may form, but they do not reach global proportions.
Sanders 2020

Reply
#31
mv Wrote:
John L Wrote:Your cynicism is evident here. Most scientists have integrity, and are going to do the right thing.

Untrue (and this is based on decades of academia, not hearsay). I happen to know one of this gang members and a plenty of similar personae from other fields.

You are wrong if you are seeing scientists as incorruptible sources of knowledge...they are ordinary people very prone to corruption, and $'s corrupt.

Scientists are concerned about more mundane things than integrity, things like publishing and getting grants. Funding is particularly important, since there is never enough of it to go around.

How bad is the situation depends on the area; the worst are those where large funding is primarily from non-industry source. Climate "science" is just such a case. The setup is very prone to cabal-forming, where a group of single-minded people try to usurp the funding; if there is a prevailing ideology (like AGW), the funding is directed along the ideology lines, not just personal ties, and leads to "majority opinions" in due course.

Areas with industry connections (engineering) or limited funding (math) are healthier, cabals still may form, but they do not reach global proportions.

I did not say they were "incorruptable": you did.

Also, I can understand your cynicism. After all, I know where you came from, AND now you live in New Yawk. There is no other place in the US, with perhaps the exception of DC and LA, that is worse. Anyone, thinking New Yawk is a good example, is living in the dark.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#32
Nothing to do with NYC; the problem is global.

Hansen happens to be an NYC scumbag, linked to Columbia, so you can write him off as That-Horrible-NYC abnormality. But Mann is VA and PA and a quick look around would reveal that AGW gang is present in every major school. So are the other illnesses.

IME there is no reason to think that NY is worse than any other state, but nobody ever studied the distribution of occurrences of honesty withing scientific community. That it is uncommon but not totally extinct is clear.

The solution, incidentally, is very simple: stop government interference in science. Eliminating public funding will greatly reduce corruption, and then moral scientists will stop being a rarity.
Sanders 2020

Reply
#33
mv Wrote:Eliminating public funding will greatly reduce corruption, and then moral scientists will stop being a rarity.

Not to mention reducing the size of government and bringing back to Constitutionality.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Reply
#34
Yes, sure. The goal -- the only worthy goal -- is to get the Government out of all areas it should not be in. Then we can elect as many incompetents demopublicans as we want.

Meanwhile Ball on CRU and Gore. Talking about locales, lets notice that this uniquely talented scientist comes from the state of TN thus making this particular state more responsible for the crisis in science than any NY or CA. Wink1
Sanders 2020

Reply
#35
Lawsuits against NASA?
Sanders 2020

Reply
#36
What we need is a Hansen Vigil/Watch, and see how much longer he lasts at Goddard. Will NASA throw him under the buss soon, or will they attempt to wiggle out first?

My guess is that by next year, the AGW landscape, and key players, will be a bit different.

Algore, are you paying attention? :mrgreen:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#37
Al Gore was last seen basking in the "millions of degree" heat radiating from the Earth's core!

:lol:
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
Reply
#38
He'll feel the heat very soon, I predict. Wink1

Oh, and Paul Hudson, of the Beeb, admits that he has had the e-mails since October 23rd. That's almost a month. I wonder why he did not comment on it? I wonder.


I'm still betting that this 'hacking' action was an inside job. How else could they obtain it, without others noting it immediately?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#39
And here is a a reaction to the hacked emails from a grassroots AGW believer.

Quote:As a long time AGW supporter I must say I found the emails very disturbing. I spent hours reading them myself. I don't know if they qualify as “smoking gun” that the AGW science is bust, but I just cannot ignore it.

I feel ashamed for the behavior of our leading scientists. Even more than feeling ashamed – I feel betrayed. For years I trusted that science will prevail over the unsubstantiated skeptic view. These emails reveal a very disturbing picture of ideology overriding science. Science being bent out of shape to support a hypothesis.

They reveal unbelievable arrogance. These people whom I trusted so much think they are

- above the law (destroying email, refusing FOIA, tax evasion)

- above the data (“hide the decline”, remove the cooling blip)

- above their peers (get uncomforting journal editors fired, block skeptic publications)

- above the rest of us (manipulate the message, presentation and media)

I am sick to my stomach. I know there are so many other hard working scientists that have not tainted themselves. But this group – Phil Jones, Ken Briffa, Mike Man, Gavin Schmidt have casted a huge shadow of doubt over the entire field and caused a huge damage to the green movement.

I talked with many of my friends who, like most of us, continue to believe in AGW, and we think that as long as these guys continue to lead the science and the IPCC assessments they will continue to taint all of the good work done by thousands of other scientists.

We need to acknowledge that wrong was done. We need to replace the tainted leadership and continue the research without the air of doubt.

Just wait until the cooling climate makes things a foregone conclusion for these guys. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
Reply
#40
John L Wrote:What we need is a Hansen Vigil/Watch, and see how much longer he lasts at Goddard. Will NASA throw him under the buss soon, or will they attempt to wiggle out first?

My guess is that by next year, the AGW landscape, and key players, will be a bit different.

Algore, are you paying attention? :mrgreen:
Hansen et al will not be thrown under the bus soon. Who will throw them there? They will kick, scream, cry foul, for quite a while until sufficient pressure is generated. It is not clear yet to me where the "sufficient pressure" will come from.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Exclamation Climategate II (more CRU emails) JohnWho 20 9,639 02-09-2017, 07:02 PM
Last Post: John L

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)