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Dinosaurs killed by cyanobacteria?
#1
another theory, no asteroid, but rather cyano
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#2
Gary Larson also had a theory, just as plausible.

[Image: The%2BReal%2BReason%2BDinosaurs%2BBecame%2BExtinct.jpg]

The Real Reason Dinosaurs Became Extinct
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#3
Whoa!

We Floridians, especially those on the left coast of Florida, are well aware of the toxic effects of cyanobacteria - we deal with something called "red tide" more than we want to admit.

It effects the wildlife and the air that we breathe, and is not pleasant.
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#4
mv Wrote:another theory, no asteroid, but rather cyano

Usually humans are cast as the culprit for algae blooms. All that run off, you know, from factory farms and bourgeois lawn fertilizing.

Who the hell was running factor farms back then?
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#5
jt Wrote:Usually humans are cast as the culprit for algae blooms. All that run off, you know, from factory farms and bourgeois lawn fertilizing.

Who the hell was running factor farms back then?

Well, there still may have been run off from plants, specifically early shrubs -

making it,

you know,

"Bush"es fault!

S2
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#6
jt Wrote:
mv Wrote:another theory, no asteroid, but rather cyano

Usually humans are cast as the culprit for algae blooms. All that run off, you know, from factory farms and bourgeois lawn fertilizing.

Who the hell was running factor farms back then?

Lots of rotting organics some believe we now find in forms of oil. But here is another idea:

A single rotting dinosaur carcass provides quite a lot of fertilization.... How long can you survive in a house with a dead cow on your backyard?

(I'm not trying to protect this new theory....but it is kinda cute).
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#7
Problem is, we know there was an asteroid. Scientists have found the crater underneath the Yucatan Peninsula.
Perhaps it was a combination of things. Asteroid, toxic algae, vulcanism, disease, etc., making for a really bad day.
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#8
The problem with this theory is quite simple. All that algae is quite tasty to certain critters. And if the supply of all this tasty stuff increases, then so does the supply of critters enjoying all the algae. It is asking too much to expect something like this to run totally out of control, without some 'thing' exploiting it.

In the mid seventies, as a grduate student, there was great concern about what could have killed off all the north american mega-fauna. Man was the best explanation, but another theory was that disease, or some parasite, may have done the trick.

But surprise, surprise, it wound up being an Impactor, most likely in the form of a comet. That is why it is called the Clovis Comet. We now have almost irrefutable proof of this now, and we have discussed this right here.

We are also now virtually certain that this celestial event was the cause of huge fresh water melt, and instantaneous flooding of the Atlantic Conveyer, due to huge run-off along the St.Lawrence Freeway, causing the Younger Dryas.

The point is,.....if there is a mass dying, ie mass extinction event, or global calamity, it is almost always the result of some celestial event, and most likely initiated by an impactor, or impactors. I will go along with the theory of several cometary Impactors, which killed off over 90% of the fauna at the end of The Permian-Triassic, and the Cretaceous-Tertiary periods.

Even the Pleistocene ice age cycles are celestial, if you discount the rise of the sea floor, and the connection of the two Americas, via the Panama Land Bridge about 4.5 - 5 million years ago.

As Cpl. Queball would say, "It's all Celestial Stupid"!
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#9
John L Wrote:The problem with this theory is quite simple. All that algae is quite tasty to certain critters.

One should be very careful with any generic statements about algae: it is a wide group of organisms, single-cell and structured multi-cell with few common properties between them, except for use of photosynthesis and not being recognized as plants. Essentially no critters eat cyanobacteria, and some strains of cyano are capable of producing very strong toxins that repel or kill the eaters.

Wiki article gives some idea of how wide the class is.

And we really don't have much evidence for the celestial extinctions... yes, there is some Yucatan crater, but how could any one impact cause an extinction over millions of years remains unanswered.
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#10
The thought of one large Impactor may be a bit too simplistic. It makes for great shows/movies, but the odds are that there were most likely more than one, per major event. My guess is that were were two or more at the two biggest mass extinction events I mention above. And this is finally beginning to be put forth in scientific circles.

Look, something is shaking up the Ort Cloud, at certain times, either through the presence of some binary 'brown dwarf', or the moving in and out of the galactic plain. But some gravitational pull is causing a goodly number of comets to start moving into the inner solar system. My guess is that there may be hundreds or even thousands. In some cases, none may strike earth, while at others, several may do the dirty deed. It will all be due to chance. P-T and K-T events were most likely due to more than just one hit.

The planet is litterly loaded with craters, if one looks close enough. Eugene Shoemaker brought all this to light years ago, and now we are finding under sea craters all the time. This planet is right smack in the middle of a Huge shooting gallery. And at certain times, all hell breaks loose, and this planet winds up being right in the way of more than one comets.

As for the algae theory, that may have some merit, but it will almost certainly be small potatoes. Just as the gravitational influence of the Jovian planets affect the suns location in and near the centre of the solar system, and it's influence on solar storm(think sunspots), anything that has rhyme or rhythm, is celestial in cause and effect.
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#11
John L Wrote:The problem with this theory is quite simple. All that algae is quite tasty to certain critters.

Find something that eats this Red Tide stuff and you'll be rich in no time here in Florida, I would think.

In this case, it is bad algae - very bad.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
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#12
JohnWho Wrote:
John L Wrote:The problem with this theory is quite simple. All that algae is quite tasty to certain critters.

Find something that eats this Red Tide stuff and you'll be rich in no time here in Florida, I would think.

In this case, it is bad algae - very bad.

Turn some entrepreneur loose, and he/she will discover some way to make money with the stuff, and the rest will be history. If it produces methane as a waste product, someone may be able to harvest it for fuel. [Image: grin.gif]
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#13
Interesting stuff this Red Tide -- now had a chance to look at this...new to me, I was thinking more in cyanobacteria terms, and this appears to be far worse.

Neurotoxins are like some cyanobacteria. Close relatives to Oodinium which is one of the nastiest parasites. Very likely, just as Oodinium, sensitive to Copper, but you don't have enough Copper to treat the ocean.... very likely small shrimp would eat it, but it reproduces much faster than than shrimp can... again, cannot do.... plus its toxins may be intended to kill shrimp specifically.

Yep, Red Tide is a better candidate than cyano.....

BTW, an impact still has a place in this.... a comet impact would cause massive pollution (lots of primitive organics in comets), and these guys love water with high organic contents....
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

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#14
It looks like cyanobacteria is no longer a possibility of causing dinosaur extinction. I didn't see this when it came out last year, but here it is anyway.

Finally confirmed: An asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs

Of course, that is not entirely true either, since the Impactor was almost certainly a comet instead. Comets are at least twice the speed of asteroids, and have a huge amount of velocity, which would add to the destruction.

Quote:A team of American and European researchers have confirmed that the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction — the event that wiped out roughly 75% of the planet’s species, including almost every dinosaur — was caused by an asteroid impact in Mexico 66 million years ago. The Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction was the last great extinction event to occur on Earth, and is most notable for causing the diversification of mammals that eventually resulted in Homo sapiens.

66 million years ago an asteroid roughly 15 kilometers (9 miles) wide hurtled into Chicxulub, Mexico. The collision, which left behind a 180-kilometer (110-mile) crater, released 420 zettajoules of energy — 100 teratonnes of TNT, or roughly two million times stronger than the largest thermonuclear device ever used (the Russian Tsar Bomba). The impact created a huge dust cloud that blocked out the Sun, starting the extinction ball rolling by killing off much of the world’s plants, and thus the herbivores soon after. Due to high levels of oxygen in the Cretaceous atmosphere, the impact may also have caused intense, global firestorms that killed off many other species. Because the asteroid landed in the ocean, megatsunamis would’ve swept the world’s coasts, too.

Until now, though, there hasn’t been enough evidence that the Chicxulub impact actually caused the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. There was certainly a massive asteroid impact, but previous evidence showed that the asteroid impact occurred up to 300,000 years before the extinction of the dinosaurs. Biologists and geologists have argued that there may have been another cause — an impact at the Shiva crater off the coast of India, global volcanic eruptions, or perhaps something more gradual.

Now, however, European and American scientists have re-tested debris from Chicxulub using state-of-the-art equipment and narrowed the asteroid impact down to a period of 11,000 years, between 66.03 and 66.04 million years ago — almost simultaneous with the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction. When dealing with geological timescales, a range of 11,000 years is about as accurate as you can get. As the research paper puts it, though, “the Chicxulub impact likely triggered a state shift of ecosystems already under near-critical stress.” In other words, prior to the extinction event, Earth was already teetering on the edge of self-annihilation. The asteroid was simply the zettajoule stick that broke T-Rex’s back.
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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