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Who cares about North Korea?
#41
What will endanger their trade economy? I presume you mean their trade with the US. The US is not going to annoy their biggest lender (as the Pelosi and HRC trips show), and the Chinese are not going to annoy their biggest client, until they can work out a way to extricate themselves from all the US debt they bought. In addition, they would like to see carbon caps in the US, because more US manufacturing will outsource to China, to beat the caps.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#42
The US should blow up their test missile while flying.

Beside that let them starve. Not our problem.

Iran is much more worrysome and as we won't be able to make two wars, the war has to be on Iran.
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#43
jt Wrote:What will endanger their trade economy? I presume you mean their trade with the US. The US is not going to annoy their biggest lender (as the Pelosi and HRC trips show), and the Chinese are not going to annoy their biggest client, until they can work out a way to extricate themselves from all the US debt they bought. In addition, they would like to see carbon caps in the US, because more US manufacturing will outsource to China, to beat the caps.
We are on of the largest but there is also Australia and Britain and France and many others that would not see their support of NK as a good thing and that would endanger their trade with them. You seem eager to dismiss this lightly however China is not that eager. NK is a Rogue. Granted China at one time was, but not so much anymore. Many Koreans have Chinese ancestry or lineage. China is not going to blanket endorse or support NK.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#44
I don't think the US should interfere. But the asian are completely irresponsible to let NK building nukes. China first helped NK to build nukes, then NK helped Pakistan etc. China should undo what they did now and invade NK and confiscate the nukes.
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#45
Fredledingue Wrote:I don't think the US should interfere. But the asian are completely irresponsible to let NK building nukes. China first helped NK to build nukes, then NK helped Pakistan etc. China should undo what they did now and invade NK and confiscate the nukes.
Now that would be a mistake China would regret for many reasons which have nothing to do with practical aspects.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#46
There are some other aspects of this. One is that Japan is getting nervous, and has enough plutonium from her power reactors to make hundreds of bombs. Japan is not really sure that the US will still protect her, especially given Mr. "abolish nuclear weapons" as president. China would not like to see a nuclear armed Japan.

NoKo has thousands of artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, ready to fire at an instant. Thus, any military move, or any other move that NoKo might consider hostile by anyone risks the annihilation of S. Korea. I have not heard of any scheme by which this can be thwarted.

The UN is incapable of meaningful action. The last action which seemed to have an effect was when the US shut of booze and Kim Jong-il amusements from importation into NK and also attacked their foreign bank accounts, reducing the income from counterfeiting and other nefarious schemes. Unfortunately, Junior relented. Such strangulation seems to be a good idea, but takes persistent leadership by the US to accomplish.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#47
I posted somewhere else, a little while back, that the Dear Leader was in rapidly failing health, and it looks like there is about to be a change in the works real soon.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#48
Well, I hope the new leader can play golf as well as Kim Jong-il does.

S2
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#49
JohnWho Wrote:Well, I hope the new leader can play golf as well as Kim Jong-il does.

S2

He'd probably be better off working another sport, since nobody would ever be able to equal, much less exceed, the Dear Leader. No sense in striving for the impossible. Rather, conquer another venue, I would think.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#50
Well, it looks like Dear Father and Son Leadership will be controlling N. Korea for a while.
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#51
Kamil Wrote:Well, it looks like Dear Father and Son Leadership will be controlling N. Korea for a while.

You mean Dear Son, and Dear Grandson, right? The Dear Father died in 1994. This has been one long time family affair. Wink1

I don't believe the son is much longer of this grand atheistic world.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#52
Following news is from 28 September 2010 edition of BBC News.
Full article and video of the ceremony is at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11426284
Quote:A rare meeting of North Korea's ruling party has opened the way for Kim Jong-il to hand power to his youngest son.

The Workers' Party, which had not met for 30 years, convened hours after Kim Jong-un was appointed general - even though he has no military experience.

His father, who is thought to be in poor health, was re-elected as leader, state media reported.

North Korea's succession is being closely watched because of its nuclear programme and hostility with the South.
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#53
I heard that Eun's favorite sport was skateboarding.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#54
I just saw a few minutes ago: Has Kim Jong-Un lost control of North Korea? Pyongyang is on lockdown and nation's former intelligence officer says Kim has ALREADY been overthrown . This could get interesting.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#55
There is no evidence for such speculations at all. Presently a North Korean delegation is in South Korea, and this is all, and some former North Koreans living in South Korea see a good chance to talk about 'something'...

This visit from North Korea alone is a proof that there are secret but good operating contacts over the border by politicians of both sides.

North Korea is not so isolated as some US-politicians think, there are a lot of people entering North Korea as tourists and they are bringing back a lot of pictures, nowadays cameras make clear pictures even of destinations far away. Plenty of Chinese are entering North Korea every day and they can move around with much less control than Western foreigners in organized groups. They also make a lot of pictures and it is said there is little border control recently - even SIM cards are sold now to foreigners since about 2 years to allow international calls.

There are also meetings in China between Japan and North Korea.

I never understood North Korean politics - it could be a fairly rich country, as it is sharing a border with Russia, China and South Korea and has a good port facility towards Japan. Solely as a major trading point - especially for railways of wide track in Russia, and normal track in China and with a relatively open border to South Korea and Japan it would be a place full with hotels of business travellers and tourists.

There is plenty of materials in Japan and South Korea, which we do not use anymore and which could be sent for free to the North, and there is also a North Korean community in Japan which also has contacts to North Korea, but which is severly restricted due to embargos. - If correctly done by good politicians, North Korea could be a very prosperious place.

Of course without good maintenance and missing supplies all and everything is broken down for these 28 million people, who are living often in deep poverty.

Some interesting pictures from North Korea can be found here:

http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.jp/2008...ng-22.html

http://www.totorotimes.fr/voyage/pyongya...e-du-nord/

I don't know what can be done by Japan and China and South Korea to change this situation, at the moment it's only waiting, waiting since decades... How long nobody knows...

About Kim Jong Un, in Europe and in South Korea/Japan he is seen as a 'president of state', without much power to make important decisions - merely a representant. Even if he is replaced, nothing will really change... same as before, and some other KIM family member will show up 'to guide and advice'.
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#56
These are good quality pictures of 2014, made near a beach.
If you click on the pictures you can see all details quite clear.

http://thevelvetrocket.com/2014/08/13/be...rth-korea/

I know this is far away from being 'rich', but poverty you find also elsewhere in Asia, for example in Bangladesh, Philippines etc.

The only problem in North Korea is totally wrong politics if you ask me.
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#57
Just reporting what came out on the news.

(10-04-2014, 01:37 PM)yohan Wrote: I never understood North Korean politics

Best thing is not even try. I spent a little over a year, along the DMZ and was never able to understand the level of paranoia those people exhibited.

Quote: If correctly done by good politicians, North Korea could be a very prosperious place.

But it isn't, and chances are it won't. Perhaps some day there will be enough sane ones up there wanting to emulate their southern cousins.

Quote:I don't know what can be done by Japan and China and South Korea to change this situation, at the moment it's only waiting, waiting since decades... How long nobody knows...

Whatever you do, don't hold your breath. Not good for one's health. S22
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#58
It's not that bad. Soviet countries were worse build. As far as buildings are concerned.
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#59
(10-04-2014, 04:46 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: It's not that bad. Soviet countries were worse build. As far as buildings are concerned.

I was stationed in Korea, from early August 1970 to the end of August 1971, and at that time, ROK was much further ahead of even those pictures. There were automobiles everywhere(mostly Shinjin at the time), and the roads were almost all paved when I first got there.

NK is Stone Age still compared to ROK.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#60
(10-04-2014, 04:46 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: It's not that bad. Soviet countries were worse build. As far as buildings are concerned.

More or less the same, former Soviet-style - unfortunately I had no chance yet to visit North Korea, but some of our staff in Tokyo did.

While impoverished and under sanctions, economically North Korea always is able to manage to get plenty of materials into its country, mainly via China.

I only want to point out, that North Korea is not so deeply isolated regarding economy and tourism as it is presented in the US-media.

There are various tours possible even for individual travellers (movement restricted of course similar to former East Germany), and more North Korean cities than ever are open to visit.

Most North Korean travel agents are operating outside of USA however, in Europe mostly in Germany, as former East Germany was a meeting point for North Koreans in Europe in the past.

For example:
http://pyongyang-travel.com/public-transport-tours.html

It's remarkable that North Korea still exists in this political style. Not to talk about China, but other not so large countries in Asia changed as well - Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar - despite communist-orientated, they are still poor, but not isolated anymore and open for foreigners to visit them anytime, often visafree. In Europe Albania opened up completely.

Somewhat strange, that North Korea up to now did not follow the others.

Maybe its leadership thinks to be poor is the best protection to outside?

Even South Korea is not much interested in unification, as it will mean a financial disaster.
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