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Who cares about North Korea?
#21
WmLambert Wrote:Define the term "elected."

Still above room temperature and able to limp to a podium?

I wonder what the Vegas odds are on whether he or Castro will the first to go under glass Lenin/Stalin style? Ya think his dad on display somewhere?
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#22
I just report,

I don't explain.


I think though that he voted for himself,

thereby assuring his victory.

But, I could be wrong.

S1
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#23
seriously, though. what in the hell is the point of holding elections like this? Saddam hussein did it, Chavez does it. I think Castro does it to. who do they think they are fooling?
[Image: 760.png]
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#24
They fool nobody, but it gives their governments international legitimacy, whether deserved or not.
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#25
I interpreted that as being elected from among a close circle of Communist party members - so a little different from the way Saddam or Mugabe did it, even if no less of a show.

In terms of a long-term strategy, just sitting and waiting for a nuclear confrontation is not an option. This is the worst case scenario. No matter how suddenly it's done, it spells the end of Soeul - a US ally. This is nuclear deterrence.

Likewise, just letting the country starve itself to death is pretty low on the list. First of all, there will always be some country that will come in and save them at the last minute (suddenly the EU will take an interest in the situation.) Even if it were managed though, Kim would simply deflect the blame on to foreigners (remember these people have no conception of personal responsibility.) While it may weaken the Kim government, whoever came in after would still be anti-American. There are, however, a number of footnotes. We have to make sure the food is actually getting to anyone useful. Also, goods higher on the order of needs should be treated very carefully - manufacturing just for the purpose of employment, for instance, doesn't help anything.

John L Wrote:How many times should we use carrots, only to have the donkey [i.e. China] (pun intended here) refuse to move further? How many times do we let the donkey kick us in the teeth, before one finally says ENOUGH?

You are not married yet, are you? Well when you do, and you have your first little rug rat, try the same thing on him/her, and see if you are doing any good, by giving in all the time. Try it and see if you can change his/her habits. And see how wonderful your life is, by appeasing that child all the time.
China is not a child. They are a teenager, almost ready to be an adult. Look at their proposal to reform the currency system by creating a transnational currency through the IMF. Suddenly (regardless of the practicality of that proposal) they are going to come out looking, in the eyes of casual observers, (in other words, most people around the world) like they have better economic ideas than the US. I'd say that since the economic crisis as a whole has boosted China's credibility and lowered that of the US - regardless of the actual economic damage to each respective country.

mr_yak Wrote:b5d,

You really sound like you're expecting some kind of U.S. foreign policy leadership on an Executive and Congressional level. Sorry, it's not gonna happen for a while. Witness the international apology tour over the last week or so. Hegemony is no longer part of the plan. Now if the EU asked Obama to expand VOA, dump some of our newly minted Geithner bucks into Korean higher ed, bring in boatloads of refugees ... that might fly ... if I were as passionate about this issue as you, that would be the tactic I'd use ... but I really wouldn't hold my breath either way.
That seemed to be what Obama was trying to do last week, when he framed his speech on North Korea around nonproliferation.

But actually I disagree. The real leadership has to come from below, public action against the elected leaders. And that's where the passion is most lacking. I mean there is passion about terror, maybe if less than a few years ago, but the biggest problem is that it's completely without direction. So some people believe that Mexico is a conduit of Islamic extremism, while not enough attention is paid to a country that has actually announced its intention to give nuclear technology to anti-American regimes in the Islamic world. Someone needs to channel that energy into something useful. I'm not sure if Obama can do that or not, but he's the closest I've seen to anyone that can.

quadrat Wrote:There are people in this world who are a lot more paranoid than North Koreans.
Really? Like who?
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#26
Anybody panicking in the face of the terrible threat of North Korea? Are you one of those? There we have the U.S. with vast fleets, and tens of thousands of functioning rockets, and nukes, well sort of, and there's impoverished NK whose last rocket broke apart over the Pacific. What didn't bother the NKs to have a huge demonstration celebrating the 'successful' launch nonetheless. Seems to me you all are gone mad. :lol:
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#27
quadrat Wrote:Seems to me you all are gone mad.

Well, if you think we've all gone mad,

then that means we are all doing something right!


I'd be worried if you were agreeing with us.

:lol:
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#28
I'm woried you agree with B. Hussein O. and Hillary Clinton.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#29
And nothing will get done about it either.

I've always wondered why we haven't just been rid of these people in the later 50s and 60s? Someone needs to go there with some force and do something, because paying them aid and grain just gets us more bullshyt. Wait, the Chinese would throw a fit and ruin our trade...

I want to see what you can do on this one Obama, or will your most imenient failure be hyped up as a success?
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#30
I think the NKo situation is much like the I-Pal situation or the Iran-Nuke situation. Everyone wrings their hands about it, but no one wants to do anything about is.

For all of my adult life I have seen I-Pal negotiations or "peace initiatives" and none have come to anything. The same with the Nko-Nuke situation, and now the Iran-Nuke situation. The Russians and Chinese don't let the UN do anything, and the UN could not do anything if it wanted to due to the decrepitude of the EU and Russian military. China likes having an annoyance to the US and SKo.

My conclusion is: nothing is going to change until NKo or Iran actually sets off a N bomb in foreign territory.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#31
jt Wrote:I think the NKo situation is much like the I-Pal situation or the Iran-Nuke situation. Everyone wrings their hands about it, but no one wants to do anything about is.

For all of my adult life I have seen I-Pal negotiations or "peace initiatives" and none have come to anything. The same with the Nko-Nuke situation, and now the Iran-Nuke situation. The Russians and Chinese don't let the UN do anything, and the UN could not do anything if it wanted to due to the decrepitude of the EU and Russian military. China likes having an annoyance to the US and SKo.

My conclusion is: nothing is going to change until NKo or Iran actually sets off a N bomb in foreign territory.

What exactly could they do? Nuke them? Hardly feasible. Boycott them? Won't work. You want a real Hermit Kingdom? There it is.
Cut off all aid an trade?
The North Koreans would watch their population starve and applaud the deaths as less mouths to feed.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#32
Don't they have the right to defend their nation and freedom? Whatever unfavourable stuff can be said about them, I never heared they demanded that any other nation would adopt their way of life.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#33
quadrat Wrote:Don't they have the right to defend their nation and freedom?
No.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#34
Quote:Whatever unfavourable stuff can be said about them, I never heared they demanded that any other nation would adopt their way of life.
I spent three years there. I speak the language. I heard them. Loud and clear.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#35
Because we don't really care, so long as Obama makes a Domestic transformation. - Steyn

Quote:Doesn't Kim Jong-il have a compelling personal story? Like Sonia, he grew up in a poor neighborhood (North Korea), yet he's managed to become a nuclear power, shattering the glass ceiling to take his seat at the old nuclear boys' club. Isn't that an inspiring narrative? Once upon a time you had to be a great power, one of the Big Five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, to sit at the nuclear table: America, Britain, France, Russia, China, the old sons of power and privilege. But now the mentally unstable scion of an impoverished no-account backwater with a GDP lower than Zimbabwe has joined their ranks: Celebrate diversity!

Quote:Barack Obama came to power pledging to talk to America's enemies anywhere, anytime. Alas for America's speak-softly-and-carry-a-big-teleprompter diplomacy, there are no takers for his photo-ops. In the ever more pitiful straw-clutching of the State Department, America is said to be banking on a post-Kim era. He's apparently had a bad stroke and might be dead within a decade or three. So what? It's a safe bet that whoever emerges from a power struggle between the family, the party and the military is committed to nuclearization as the principal rationale of the state. Likewise in Iran's imminent election, both "extremists" and "moderates" are pro-nuke. You want an Iranian moderate? Here's Hashemi Rafsanjani, the moderate guy who lost to that crazy Ahmadinejad last time round: He called Israel "the most hideous occurrence in history," which the Muslim world "will vomit out from its midst" with "a single atomic bomb." Nuking the Zionist Entity is as bipartisan as motherhood and apple pie.

And the wheel in the sky keeps on turning....seriously, we should have done something militarily by now, this is getting ridiculous. He might launch his nukes? Ok then - nuke him.
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#36
Gunnen4u Wrote:seriously, we should have done something militarily by now,

China is the only reason we haven't.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
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#37
Steyn is right, as usual. And his rapier witt adds to it.

However, there may be a silver lining here. PRC is uncomfortable with it's.........strange neighbor. Trust me, it is at that. Perhaps NK's larger neighbor is experiencing acid indigestion? Let's hope so. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#38
cutting off the summer and winter Kim Chi supply. Banning Kim Pop and removing Pul Go gi from the menu.
Other than that the choice is narrowed to one. War!
Be very sure you are ready for that.
This Country is not. It would not support it.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#39
John L Wrote:Steyn is right, as usual. And his rapier witt adds to it.

However, there may be a silver lining here. PRC is uncomfortable with it's.........strange neighbor. Trust me, it is at that. Perhaps NK's larger neighbor is experiencing acid indigestion? Let's hope so. Wink1

Yes, China has issued dispeptic words recently about NoKo and its now functioning nukes. I will wait for a follow through, but I will not hold my breath. The Chicoms will have to calibrate their actual response carefully.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#40
jt Wrote:
John L Wrote:Steyn is right, as usual. And his rapier witt adds to it.

However, there may be a silver lining here. PRC is uncomfortable with it's.........strange neighbor. Trust me, it is at that. Perhaps NK's larger neighbor is experiencing acid indigestion? Let's hope so. Wink1

Yes, China has issued dispeptic words recently about NoKo and its now functioning nukes. I will wait for a follow through, but I will not hold my breath. The Chicoms will have to calibrate their actual response carefully.
Their Trade economy is in danger. Who they going to trade with NK?
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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