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The EU Constitution Is In The Toilet!
#81
So, from that bit of the article we can infer that the real intent of Germany was to dominate the EU through money and politics.

What they couldn't do through war, they are going to do through the EU.

Thank god its collapsing.

As for your floating exchange rates, the excess taxation would ruin Europe even more? Its already going bankrupt and taxing the unemployed is taxing money that came from taxes to start with.

Or is this your trojan horse solution to EU problems?
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#82
Quote:What they couldn't do through war, they are going to do through the EU.

EU == 4th Reich.

Any idea how the 5th may look like?

Quote:Or is this your trojan horse solution to EU problems?

Hey, I'm trying to be helpful and ensure that Europe remains a source of fun news. Perhaps we should email this idea to the European governments, they are crazy enough to use it. Wink1
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#83
mv Wrote:Actually, they do have a solution that is easy to implement: establish floating exchange rates between different series of banknotes. For example, two X-euros can be traded for three S-euros. Not one Mama-Euro, but many Baby-Euros.

Major PITA in my opinion. Also, how would it affect overall valuation with regard to foreign holders? Would they begin to only purchase certain types of euros as well? The question then becomes, why? Why have a "standard" currency only to value it differently based on where and how its backed?
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#84
The 5th will be a Moslem Reich.

Hell, Lets spread the idea! Here is some places to write to:

Embassy of Germany and
German Information Center


4645 Reservoir Road, NW Washington DC 20007-1998

Telephone: (202) 298-4000
Fax: (202) 298-4249 or 333-2653


Embassy of Italy

3000 Whitehaven Street, NW, Washington DC 20008

Telephone: (202) 612-4400
Fax: (202) 518-2154

Embassy of France

4101 Reservoir Road, NW Washington DC 20007

Telephone: (202) 944-6000
Fax: (202) 944-6072
E-mail: info@amb-wash.fr

Embassy of the Netherlands

4200 Linnean Avenue, NW
Washington DC 20008
Telephone: (202) 244-5300
Fax: (202) 362-3430
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#85
The Swiss have just voted to join the European passport free zone.

While this all claims to be helpful, and I am sure it is, I hope they do not go too far in joining various EU agreements and other political bindings, which may wreak havoc on a stable and well-oiled economy. Not only that, they will lose their right for the average citizen (civilian or non-civilian) to own a firearm.

I hope these fiercely independant people do not fully join the EU itself, as it would destroy them.
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#86
Three posts in a row, I guess that makes me a windbag.

Anyhow, I sit reading all this, wondering if we will ever come to the point where we have beaten this (The EU, Euro, blah blah) horse to death?
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#87
Gunnen4u Wrote:Anyhow, I sit reading all this, wondering if we will ever come to the point where we have beaten this (The EU, Euro, blah blah) horse to death?

Not any time soon. This promises to be at least as interesting as the breakup of the Soviet Block 1989-1991, and hopefully the Europeans will have enough sense to stretch the agony over a few seasons.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#88
mv Wrote:
Gunnen4u Wrote:Anyhow, I sit reading all this, wondering if we will ever come to the point where we have beaten this (The EU, Euro, blah blah) horse to death?

Not any time soon. This promises to be at least as interesting as the breakup of the Soviet Block 1989-1991, and hopefully the Europeans will have enough sense to stretch the agony over a few seasons.

IF they followed true American capitalism, they would make a reality TV series out of it and mabye that would bring them out of debt, relieve te massive unemployment, and unite the Europeans on set.

But, I doubt it.
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#89
Gunnen4u Wrote:
mv Wrote:
Gunnen4u Wrote:Anyhow, I sit reading all this, wondering if we will ever come to the point where we have beaten this (The EU, Euro, blah blah) horse to death?

Not any time soon. This promises to be at least as interesting as the breakup of the Soviet Block 1989-1991, and hopefully the Europeans will have enough sense to stretch the agony over a few seasons.

IF they followed true American capitalism, they would make a reality TV series out of it and mabye that would bring them out of debt, relieve te massive unemployment, and unite the Europeans on set.

But, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, reality TV came to us from across the pond in the first place. S6
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#90
Interesting.

Still, if they knew how to make a buck, they would put this to what they invented to begin with.

NOTE: I hate reality TV.
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#91
A number of Hollywood personalities previously expressed the desire to move to Europe; perhaps they can assist in running this show.

In fact, I would not mind letting Michael Moore directing the Fall of Europe. I might even watch.

Meanwhile, remember that Euro(di)vision is not the only channel, and other studies promise good stuff as well.

Chinese stock market is at 8-year low (lost 50% of value in 2005) -- this is a pilot for a good series.

Our democratic expecrements in the Middle East are about to blow up (Hizbollah and Hamas as democratic winners, thank you Mr. Bush). Ditto for totally screwed up regimes in Georgia and Ukraine. --- several miniseries are about to be aired.

The story of Himmler's assassination might make for one day special if aired... (but I'm more curious if they are going to scrap all the WWII textbooks).

And then there are still NK and Iranian nukes rising over the horison.....
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#92
Another good Euro analysis from the Economist:

Can this union be saved?
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#93
mv Wrote:Another good Euro analysis from the Economist:

Can this union be saved?

WOW! That's simply the most damning article I have read yet. As much for its content as for its tone. This isn't some typical alarmist and over sensationalized UK tabloid. This is one of the most respected financial sheets in the world and it happens to be painting a very grim picture.

And to think, there are a number of Europeans who frequent another political board that insist most economic measures (like GDP) are American affectations and don't accurately reflect quality of life in the EU. The fail to understand that their QoL is going to nosedive if the money runs out. :roll:
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#94
And some more good stuff

Times: The reason that Europe is having a breakdown . . . it's the euro, stupid


What is puzzling is that the structural problems with Euro should have been obvious for long time...but nobody noticed, until the recent flood ....

---- And some more ---

FrontPage: Is Europe Dying?
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#95
And now the worm is beginning to turn...

...on itself. :twisted:

Quote:Saturday June 11, 12:38 AM
AFP wire

EU crisis deepens as France and Germany gang up on Britain

A crisis in the European Union sparked by French and Dutch voters' rejections of the EU's constitution worsened when France and Germany ganged up on Britain ahead of an important summit next week meant to reorganise the bloc's budget for 2007-2013.

French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, meeting together in Paris, told a joint news conference they wanted Britain to give up a hard-won five-billion-euro (six-billion-dollar) annual rebate it gets from the EU budget -- something British Prime Minister Tony Blair has bluntly and repeatedly ruled out.

"Above all our British friends must recognise how things have changed and the need for greater equity in the financial charges that each country bears," Chirac said.

The two leaders, representing the Franco-German axis that has long driven the European project, also urged the process of ratifying the moribund constitution to continue, despite the two referendum defeats that theoretically kill it off and Blair's decision to suspend a plebiscite on the charter next year.

"We are both in agreement in reaffirming how much the European Union... needs above all to unite and to reflect," Chirac said.

Schroeder, at his side, said it was "premature" to consider the EU constitution a dead letter.

France and Germany's forceful and shared stance, and Britain's refusal to yield set the scene for a dramatic summit of EU heads of state and government in Brussels next Thursday and Friday.

The atmosphere was expected to be especially tense between Chirac and Blair, whose usually polite relationship has degenerated into acrimony at times in the past over EU matters.

Chirac said the EU rebate Britain won in 1984 after tough negotiations by then-prime minister Margaret Thatcher was "now old".

He said each EU state "must make an effort" so that the union's financial problems do not exacerbate the political ones revealed by the resistance to the EU constitution.

But British Prime Minister Tony Blair has refused to give way, calling instead for a "fundamental review" of EU spending -- implied to mean a revision of costly EU agricultural subsidies from which French farmers greatly benefit.

The French president, whose authority at home has been enormously weakened by his country's rejection of the EU charter, countered by saying he would not overturn a deal he and Schroeder struck in 2002 to keep the agricultural subsidy system intact until 2013.

"Everyone must pay his share... but I am not prepared to compromise" on the EU Common Agriculture Policy, he said.

Schroeder did hold out the promise that France and Germany were ready to make a unspecified, "constructive compromise" at the summit.

It was the leaders' second get-together in the wake of French and Dutch rejection of the EU charter in the past two weeks.

A former European commissioner, British parliamentarian Neil Kinnock, accused Chirac of using the row over the British budget rebate as a diversion from his own problems over the EU constitution.

"Chirac playing these diversionary games simply adds to the discredit," said Kinnock, who is a member of Blair's Labour Party.

Commentators noted that Chirac and Schroeder will be going into the summit severely weakened.

Chirac faces a lame-duck presidency to the end of his mandate in 2007 because of the referendum debacle, while various electoral defeats in Germany have left Schroeder with little prospect of holding on to power in polls next year.

On the other hand, Blair last month won a third mandate and is governing one of the rare vibrant economies among the major EU members.

A veto from him would scuttle the summit and delay EU budget decision to early next year.

"Tony Blair may not have the intention of ruining the European summit. But he has the power to do so. That's his strength," the French newspaper Le Figaro said.

Cold beer and popcorn indeed!!! :lol:
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#96
what they are trying to do is break the rules that their prececessors set up. Kind of like the rule of law. Who cares about the law if it does not favour us?

I suspect that this will simply be another small nail in the EU coffin, and I am loving every minute of it! M. Blair would be a lunatic to give in on a deal such as this!

What is going to be so delicious is the degree of diplomatic "huffing and Puffing" that will origionate from the Franco-German side. S6
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#97
Quote:what they are trying to do is break the rules that their prececessors set up.

I *think* what they are trying to do is make Britain responsible for the EU failure.

It would be suicidal for Blair to give up the "refund", but his refusal can be used to show that the fault is (and always was) British.

This *may be* a part of Plan B == a Core-EU grouping w/o the UK and more controllable. Such a plan probably will pass in France where many No votes came from the left; it is less certain about the Dutch.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#98
Another good (and rather different) one, from Bret Stephens in WSJ.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#99
And, apparently EU is about to vote in an amended version of the Constitution.

The changes include, according to the Weekly Standard:

Quote:Revised European Constitution
Draft 47: Proposed Addenda
Declaration 253: Treatment of livestock must be humane, This regulation does not include the Slovenian Goat Shaving festival. However, the Baltic game of "catball" must be discontinued.

Declaration 342A: The Conference notes that residents of Saint-Flour appreciate the central location and pleasant dining atmosphere of Bistro Michelle (on rue d' Argenson) and that their Moules à la diable is a must-try. Any harvested mussels may continue to be purchased tax-free from M. Dujac's 8-year-old son, Jean-Paul, provided that Jean-Paul goes and retrieves them on the beach and doesn't pull another middle-man maneuver between the restaurant and the shop Monde des Moules.

Declaration 589: The European Union's national anthem will remain Beethoven's "Ode to Joy." No exceptions.

Declaration 589A: Residents of Berlin may substitute for "Ode to Joy" the song "Elektrisches Roulette" by Kraftwerk.

Declaration 674: While reaffirming the importance of continent-wide recycling, the Conference accepts that Anke de Hooeg of Staphorst "will be damned" if she has to separate her waste paper "into 50 different goddamn containers." In the case of Ms. de Hooeg, local authorities will accept her statement "I do one bag of paper, uno" as an acceptable level of compliance.
.....

This version is more detailed and is certain to be better understood and accepted....
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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mv Wrote:This version is more detailed and is certain to be better understood and accepted....

Actually, I think this is exactly what's wrong with their "Constitution". They are detailing it to death. To the the point that eventually, they will need amendments to adress the way people sneeze or wipe their butts.

A constitution needs to be simple, and relatively easy to interpret. It shouldn't have to spell out everyone's day on an almost minute by minute basis.
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