Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The EU Constitution Is In The Toilet!
#41
Quote:. I simply love to rub the noses of the elitist Europeans who are, by defaul....

Do we have any around???

Stroll...Stroll....Stroll.....where are you????
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#42
Stratfor comments:

Quote:In our annual forecasts, we have asserted that history would record 2004 as the high point of European integration, predicting that 2005 would be the year when Europe's decline would become both noticed and unstoppable. We can now hone that further and state that June 1, 2005, will be remembered as the day the Europe we all have come to know began to die.
....

Large multinational organizations, even those as tame as the European Union, do not die pretty deaths. Europe, for the first time since the Berlin Wall came down, is about to become a very exciting place.

(Interestingly, they see the Dutch result as more important than the French).
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#43
John L Wrote:I'm having a grand time with this thing. I simply love to rub the noses of the elitist Europeans who are, by default, against us, into the limestone facing.

Ohhh! That Smarts!!

Doing it here gives us no entertainment, why don't you show Snodgrass and all his European buddies at Pro-American Forums?

Should draw them out of the woodwork. S1
Reply
#44
I'm going to head over it itsallpolitics.com and witness the havoc John and Baldar must be wreaking right about now. :twisted:
Reply
#45
Predictions From Ralph Peters:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedco.../47498.htm

Quote: France may not invade Germany this summer, but we need to escape the illusion of a new, pacifist Europe too sophisticated to repeat past errors. This is the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing, the source of history's grimmest wars.

Europe may be good for some ugly surprises as its states struggle with faltering economies, declining birthrates, angry Islamic minorities and a lack of opportunity for the young that resembles the plight of the developing world. Expecting Europe's nationalities to behave is as foolish as hoping to beat the house in Vegas.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#46
Seabird Wrote:I'm going to head over it itsallpolitics.com and witness the havoc John and Baldar must be wreaking right about now. :twisted:

Do link me to any posts and wars they have started. 8)
Reply
#47
mv Wrote:Predictions From Ralph Peters:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedco.../47498.htm

That was a very good article and as that Stratfor article pointed out, its going to be impossibleto overcome nationalism between European nations.

You have to wonder how long it might take, considering all the wars and conflicts throughout European History, to finally get rid of all the ingrained feelings and attitudes people from various nations there hold for each other.

10, 50, 100, or 500 years?
Reply
#48
Quote:You have to wonder how long it might take, considering all the wars and conflicts throughout European History, to finally get rid of all the ingrained feelings and attitudes people from various nations there hold for each other.

The most interesting question.....

Some questions/comments from me:

Nationalism does not always mean hostility toward other groups; it may only amount to putting your group first.

For example, rejection of larger Europe is at least partially driven by the lack of desire to subsidize poor Eastern European states (and, perhaps, Turkey as well). This does not mean that Eastern Europeans or even Turks are hated.


Next: within 1-2 years Europeans will discover that some countries are overspending and destabilizing their common currency and the well-being of other countries. If the Italian government (for example) overspends would this mean that every/some newly unemployed Dutch will start hating Italians? Are we to see a civilized divorce or a protructed legal battle to poison attitudes for the next hundred years?


Next: how much of the new nationalism will be directed toward other European countries and how much toward the immigrants? May it happen that the anti-immigrant nationalism gains the upper hand and the EU re-unifies on the basis of common hatreds? Will we -- as Peters suggests -- come to remember Chirac warmly, in comparison to the new uglies?

Next: can nationalism reverse the birth rates?

A final thought: generally, nationalism is natural. Fifty years from now, will we say that the EU experiment reduced national tensions, or simply suppressed them for a while to only see it exploding with the collapse of Common Europe (cf: Soviet Union successfully suppressed nationalism for 70 years, only to see it coming back and getting stronger once the experiment was over) ?

The only obvious item is that Europe will be supplying lots of interesting news from now on. No more "good-for-nothing europeans" :!:
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#49
Quote:Next: can nationalism reverse the birth rates?

Crisis can reverse...

BTW, old Europe rejected Constitution (those who were asked). But new Europe: Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary... are enthusiasts of EU. Does it mean EU will exist as Warsaw Treaty Organization? :?
Reply
#50
bh Wrote:
Quote:Next: can nationalism reverse the birth rates?

Crisis can reverse...

BTW, old Europe rejected Constitution (those who were asked). But new Europe: Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary... are enthusiasts of EU. Does it mean EU will exist as Warsaw Treaty Organization? :?

Good Point! However, who knows at this point. Stay tuned.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
Reply
#51
bh Wrote:But new Europe: Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary... are enthusiasts of EU. Does it mean EU will exist as Warsaw Treaty Organization?
Quite possible, if managed carefully. Right now they all have something in common: the fear (real or imagined) of Russia. And the feeling of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" can be exploited for a short period (~5 years) in order to build a more long lasting foundation for their cohesion as some kind of union. Who will (if at all) do it and how is up in the air.
Reply
#52
ag Wrote:
bh Wrote:But new Europe: Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary... are enthusiasts of EU. Does it mean EU will exist as Warsaw Treaty Organization?
Quite possible, if managed carefully. . ..

Which would lead to the GDL concept I've previously suggested.. Wink1
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#53
Gunnen4u Wrote:
Seabird Wrote:I'm going to head over it itsallpolitics.com and witness the havoc John and Baldar must be wreaking right about now. :twisted:

Do link me to any posts and wars they have started. 8)

I can't tell you how disappointed I am in our two resident rabble-rousers. Nothing. Not a single thread on the subject. And its such fertile territory too. Not just Europeans, but Canadians and American who wish they were in Europe (or that America would be annexed). S4
Reply
#54
Gents,

I find it of interest to examine which group or state was for or against the constitution and why.

I don't think they all view it the same.

Some viewed the EU as a way of controlling German aggression,not a bad thought. Some viewed it as a counter weight to the USA politically,some economically,some both.

I think the Netherlands,though full of what we would call modern liberals,may have decided ,being a tiny nation,they were not ready to be consumed by their larger neighbors politically or economically and that their old ties to us might just have some value after all. Maybe not,maybe their rejection has nothing to do with that,some think it is because they don't want Turks in any union they belong to,I'm only surmising here.
Reply
#55
Palladin Wrote:Gents,

I find it of interest to examine which group or state was for or against the constitution and why.

I don't think they all view it the same.

No way to know this. Ratifications by governments are no indication of how the populace feels.

For example, Sweden would have failed to ratify (opinion poll: 65% no), and Lithuania might have (reported deep unhappiness with Euro), but we simply don't know.

What is very interesting now is Germany: it appears that FDP started a petition drive to have a referendum. If they collect 5%...Germany might reject it too.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#56
Well - I know nationalism doesn't mean hate for others, but the competition it creates could cause friction. That was what I was trying to get at.

However, concerning the FDP, perhaps they could get several of the CDU members to support/ally themselves with.

Its expected they would if the CDU and FDP want to win the top prize in Germany's political arena.
Reply
#57
How can the average citizen NOT understand that a EU drawn up as it is in the EU Constitution would allow Muslim activists free entry into all countries? Turkey is a fine country except for the lunatics who want to destroy all civilization and replace it with Shia law.

Most probably, the only people in the countries voting FOR the Union are the Muslim populations already there.
Reply
#58
John L Wrote:Some People simply don't know when to quit and retool. Do you think that this will be the eventual end of the Poodle?

Or the Dachshund.
Reply
#59
Deutchmark Hears the Call to Duty

This is interesting, they are trying to get Germans still holding the old currency to give it up under the guise of half-price telephones.

If I was a German, I wouldn't give up any of my Deutchmarks yet.
Reply
#60
Gunnen4u Wrote:
John L Wrote:Some People simply don't know when to quit and retool. Do you think that this will be the eventual end of the Poodle?

Or the Dachshund.

It's going to be a true interesting situation in the near future. I already have my popcorn lined up. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)