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We have many threads about the Global Warming issue, but there are none here that cover the "Good" things that come out of a warmer planet. So, on that note, I will begin this thread by showing that science is finally beginning to show that a warmer planet is better than a cooler one. Just this week I found the complete History Channel show entitled Little Ice Age: Big Chill, which clearly shows that a cooler planet has catestrophic results to humans.
If you will look at the following maps, which show the planet 18,000 thousand years ago, and also today, you can obtain a pretty clear idea as to what the planet looked like then.
![[Image: lastgla_mod.gif]](http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/lastgla_mod.gif)
![[Image: present_mod.gif]](http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/present_mod.gif)
Two things clearly show up here. first, during the ice age, much of the planet is covered in ice, and today it is not. And secondly, the percentage of extreme desert is far less today than 18,000 years BP. So, if one uses these two facts, it is easy to draw a logical conclusion that the colder the planet, the dryer it will be, because there will be so much of the water locked up in ice shelves. Consequently, more extreme deserts, and drier planet. This would naturally mean that the warmer theplanet, the wetter the planet, and the less extreme desert, correct? And we know that there have been several times, during this current interglacial, in which the Sahara Desert was far greener than today. If so, then we can assume that global warming will produce a greener Sahara.
So what is the evidence concerning this? Well look here at this latest scientific finding.
Quote:Sahara dried out slowly, not abruptly: study
Thu May 8, 2008 2:10pm EDT
By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent
OSLO (Reuters) - The once-green Sahara turned to desert over thousands of years rather than in an abrupt shift as previously believed, according to a study on Thursday that may help understanding of future climate changes.
And there are now signs of a tiny shift back towards greener conditions in parts of the Sahara, apparently because of global warming, said the lead author of the report about the desert's history published in the journal Science.
The study of ancient pollen, spores and aquatic organisms in sediments in Lake Yoa in northern Chad showed the region gradually shifted from savannah 6,000 years ago towards the arid conditions that took over about 2,700 years ago.
The findings, about one of the biggest environmental shifts of the past 10,000 years, challenge past belief based on evidence in marine sediments that a far quicker change created the world's biggest hot desert.
"The hypothesis (of a sudden shift) was astonishing but it was still taken up," said Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne in Germany, lead author of the study with scientists in Belgium, Canada, the United States, Sweden and France.
The scientists, studying the remote 3.5 sq km (1.4 sq mile) Lake Yoa, found the region had once had grasses and scattered acacia trees, ferns and herbs. The salty lake is renewed by groundwater welling up from beneath the desert.
A gradual drying, blamed on shifts in monsoon rains linked to shifts in the power of the sun, meant large amounts of dust started blowing in the region about 4,300 years ago. The Sahara now covers an area the size of the United States.
FORECASTS
Kropelin told Reuters that improved understanding of the formation of the Sahara might help climate modellers improve forecasts of what is in store from global warming, blamed by the U.N. Climate Panel on human emissions of greenhouse gases.
The panel says that some areas will be more vulnerable to drought, others to more storms or floods.
The Sahara got greener when temperatures rose around the end of the Ice Age about 12,000 years ago. Warmer air can absorb more moisture from the oceans and it fell as rain far inland.
"Today I think we have the same thing going on, a global warming," he said. And he said there were already greener signs in a huge area with almost no reliable weather records.
"I see a clear trend to a new greening of the Sahara, a very slow one," he said, based on visits to some of the remotest and uninhabited parts of the desert over the past two decades.
"You go to unoccupied areas over a long time and you know there was pure sand there without a single snake or scorpion. Now you see tens of kilometers covered by grass," he said.
In Darfur in Sudan, where U.N. officials say 300,000 people may have died in five years of revolt, slightly higher rainfall was more than offset by a rise in the human population to 7 million from 1 million half a century ago. People and their animals quickly eradicated any greenery.
So, the point is: the warmer the planet, the wetter and greener the planet. makes logical sense to me. Why can genuises, such as Algore, see this as well?
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Because Algore is not a genius, he's a politician and it's not (and wasn't) expedient for him. Would he have gotten even one customer to his alarm-u-mentory if it's title was. "A convenient truth, We'll be fine"
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oldr_n_wsr Wrote:Because Algore is not a genius, he's a politician and it's not (and wasn't) expedient for him. Would he have gotten even one customer to his alarm-u-mentory if it's title was. "A convenient truth, We'll be fine"
He's worse than just a politician. He's a G-dDanmed Crook, who should be sued for doing what he has done. He is worse than Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry.
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I can get on board with that.
How 'bout a good ole witch burn. Least we can use the fire to heat the house, or to cook b-b-q.
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oldr_n_wsr Wrote:I can get on board with that.
How 'bout a good ole witch burn. Least we can use the fire to heat the house, or to cook b-b-q.
Great idea! I'll bring the SC BBQ sauce. 
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John,
Sort of common sense,but those who have bought the AGW nonsense still see the probability we will all die in a furnace in the not so far out future because of modern society. I doubt even those delusded people would disagree that a generally warmer climate is best. They're just like little kids who believe warmer can't be stopped at some point till it becomes too warm.
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Palladin Wrote:John,
Sort of common sense,but those who have bought the AGW nonsense still see the probability we will all die in a furnace in the not so far out future because of modern society. I doubt even those delusded people would disagree that a generally warmer climate is best. They're just like little kids who believe warmer can't be stopped at some point till it becomes too warm.
It is a sad indictment of our sorry education system Patrick.
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Moreso our delusional, subjective populace. You wouldn't believe the radio talk shows earlier this week over a comment a radio host made up the dead Kentucky Derby horse.
East Tennesseans calling in berating him as if the horse is = to humanity.
John,Hitler's siren song was believed by the Huns,he didn't make them believe it. We Americans are buying so much pagan trash nowdays,if the schools taught everything right we'd want to be preached to about lies. It's a sign of the relative position of our people to cosmic bullcrap. Sophisticated manners of worshipping earth,mankind,humanizing animals,etc.
Nothing but a return to ancient paganism in our belief systems. It was real bad back in the post WWI era with the madam Blavatsky rage and it's getting bad again. Polished up,sophisticated, pagan worship themes. Lots of us would ignore basic, virtuous teachings by parents ,school or pastors right now,IMO.
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Palladin Wrote:John,
Sort of common sense,but those who have bought the AGW nonsense still see the probability we will all die in a furnace in the not so far out future because of modern society. I doubt even those delusded people would disagree that a generally warmer climate is best. They're just like little kids who believe warmer can't be stopped at some point till it becomes too warm. -----------------
Well...
Being neutral in respect to AGW, I can agree that if the planet warms up - and there are signs that that is taking place - we will also get a greener planet.
It could be so that the advantages of global warming outnumbers the disadvantages.
/track_snake
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track_snake Wrote:Well...
Being neutral in respect to AGW, I can agree that if the planet warms up - and there are signs that that is taking place - we will also get a greener planet.
It could be so that the advantages of global warming outnumbers the disadvantages.
/track_snake
If you state that enough, you just might come to believe it T_S.
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John L Wrote:track_snake Wrote:Well...
Being neutral in respect to AGW, I can agree that if the planet warms up - and there are signs that that is taking place - we will also get a greener planet.
It could be so that the advantages of global warming outnumbers the disadvantages.
/track_snake
If you state that enough, you just might come to believe it T_S.
He'll be the only one.
:lol:
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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JohnWho Wrote:He'll be the only one.
:lol:
He's slowly coming around. I can well remember when he was definately NOT neutral. Give him more time to see the inevitable. 
T_S's real problem is that he is a committed Statist. This has totally coloured his world view, where he has been led to believe that the State is best able to help others. He's wrong, of course, because it is individual citizens, who do more for other individuals than any State could even dream of doing.
T_S should wade through Frederick Bastiat's That Which Is Seen, and That Which Is Not Seen. He would gain a great insight as to how people do things that are not noticed by others.
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Apparently, those who read enough of world history (as the producers of "the big chill" did) also conclude that (for example) the "medieval climate optimum" was warmer than today and much more beneficial to humans than were the centuries surrounding this time. This reading of history happened before the current Gore induced hysteria and the "new ice age is coming" hysteria of the late '70's. So, one may suspect it is based in fact, if not in satellite measurements.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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jt Wrote:Apparently, those who read enough of world history (as the producers of "the big chill" did) also conclude that (for example) the "medieval climate optimum" was warmer than today and much more beneficial to humans than were the centuries surrounding this time. This reading of history happened before the current Gore induced hysteria and the "new ice age is coming" hysteria of the late '70's. So, one may suspect it is based in fact, if not in satellite measurements. ---------------------------------------------
Yes. About 1.000 years ago, it was quite hospitable in Greenland even for farming. The population died out somewhere between 1150 and 1300. Some say they might have migrated to Canada or even to US; a controversial stone with inscriptions from that period have been found somewhere in Minnesota.
After that, climate was slowly getting colder and the ice cover in Greenland was spreading. Now it is warming up slowly but we have a long way to go before farming can be practised in Greenland.
/track_snake
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track_snake Wrote:jt Wrote:Apparently, those who read enough of world history (as the producers of "the big chill" did) also conclude that (for example) the "medieval climate optimum" was warmer than today and much more beneficial to humans than were the centuries surrounding this time. This reading of history happened before the current Gore induced hysteria and the "new ice age is coming" hysteria of the late '70's. So, one may suspect it is based in fact, if not in satellite measurements. ---------------------------------------------
Yes. About 1.000 years ago, it was quite hospitable in Greenland even for farming. The population died out somewhere between 1150 and 1300. Some say they might have migrated to Canada or even to US; a controversial stone with inscriptions from that period have been found somewhere in Minnesota.
After that, climate was slowly getting colder and the ice cover in Greenland was spreading. Now it is warming up slowly but we have a long way to go before farming can be practised in Greenland.
/track_snake
T_S, the last written doccuments from Greenland were in 1408, and that was a marriage. The colony struggled on for a while and then died out. Not sure of the exact date, but it was the returning cold climate that did the trick to them.
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Heared the term Global Warming today for the first time in three weeks or so on TV, pretty quiet on this front.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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quadrat Wrote:Heared the term Global Warming today for the first time in three weeks or so on TV, pretty quiet on this front.
You can fully expect it to get even more quiet, unless the sun starts kicking up it's heels.
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The talk about Global Cooling is heating up!
![[Image: thudal5.gif]](http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3360/thudal5.gif)
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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JohnWho Wrote:The talk about Global Cooling is heating up!
Well it better get here soon. Last years snowmobiling season was a total bust. Only went one weekend.
eta
And some cold weather and snow during the week before thanksgiving would be appreciated to get the deer up an moving about instead of lieing in the thickets sunning themselves.
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Here is today's pic of the sun. Going like 'gangbusters', isn't it?
Solar activity
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