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Doctors group backs marijuana for medical uses
Quote:Neuroscientists have found that rats are more likely to get hooked on heroin if they have previously been given cannabis. The studies suggest a biological mechanism — at least in rats — for the much-publicized effect of cannabis as a 'gateway' to harder drugs.

The discovery hints that the brain system that produces pleasurable sensations when exposed to heroin may be 'primed' by earlier exposure to cannabis, say researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, who carried out the study.

Quote:I don't think legalization would increase use. It would still be illegal for kids just as cigarettes are and you have seen for yourself how effective that is.

My main point, though, is that cigarrette smoking is so prevalent amongst teens because it is legal - because the tobacco companies, which possess billions of dollars - use their behemoth advertising machines to insure kids get hooked on them. If marijuana were legal, the tobacoo companies would market it to kids and insure they got hooked on it while they were young.

As for your data showing the prevalence of pot amongst kids, lots of other data shows pot use is actually decreasing.

I watched a speech maybe 10 years ago by this Harvard professor who was retired. I think he was 85 years old then. In a nutshell here was his view of pot and he said it was his life's work to study the affects it had on humans:

1)It is less harmful than cigarrettes and beer by a large magnitude,not even close.

2)It is a lie(and researchers KNOW it is a lie) that marijuana is a lead in to hard drugs. He said that's nothing but US government bs and he said why it is detrimental to lie like that,because when the same government says cocaine and meth are awful,WHY believe them? Thus,folks ignore real warnings at times and try these really terrible drugs.

3)Cigarettes,not marijuana,is the common link between a youngster and lsd,coke,meth,NOT pot.

4)Marijuana had a list so long of POSITIVE beneficial uses it was astonishing,far beyond the ones you're aware of,such as glaucoma pressure reduction,nausea relief,etc. Huge long list.

5)Negatives were primarily related to the NICOTINE in the pot and this ameliorated by moderate use.

He said YEA,it's not free of detriment,but it isn't even remotely comparable to cigs and beer,period. Old man also said he had NEVER smoked marijuana,he had no horse in the race.

Now,as to your fear of advertising,would you start snorting coke if Kroger's sold it? If not,why do you think other humans are more ignorant than you?

Meth is eating rural America alive,no one advertised for them to switch from coke to meth,word just got around. You ought to see the weekly arrests of these people in the local papers,they looked like they just escaped Auschwitz.
Palladin Wrote:Meth is eating rural America alive,

In more ways than most people know. Putting the human toll aside for a moment, though it is the most important part, there are other detriments.

Agricultural theft is one. The ammonia used for fertilizer is stolen for meth production.

Sterilization of the land is another. They often turn the surrounding land into a toxic waste dump. One rural land owner had a meth lab in a wooded section of his land. Once the lab was discovered he was liable for the toxic site clean up. This can be very expensive and there is no government relief funds to help. The environmental damage done otherwise is unacceptable.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Quote:Meth is eating rural America alive,

So you suggest the solution is to legalize it?
No,I don't see that as a help or a hindrance. I'm just stating facts,meth is eating us alive in the south and rural midwest and it is ILLEGAL.

They arrest families(yep,families) every week.

Legalization has benefits no one is willing to consider though.

1)Profits go to lawful humans,not brutal thugs,thus less crime assocaited with it.

2)Tax revenue is accrued to the state,one might think the state would then use some to educate the public(probably a wasted effort though).

3)The authorities won't treat people like me as dope dealers in the future,they do now. Example,I can have my cash stolen by a law officer in Tennessee,period. No trial,no charge,no cash,local deputy says it is drug gotten,it is his,period. THAT is what this war on drugs has become.

As it is,profits go to the bad guys,druggies do it anyway even though it is obviously insane to do it. I have my money back.I am not subject to state theft.
Meth is an amphetamine, which is a CNS(Central Nervous System) Stimulant, of the worse order. It is not only dangerous to the user, but to anyone who comes in contact with that person. It is dangerous because prolonged usage creates paranoic schizophrenia within the user. It is well established that users have suddenly produced knives or guns in front of passing strangers, and murdered them, because someone within them ordered them to do so. And they did not know them from Adam.

There are some drugs that should not be legalized or decrimalized. Amphetamines are one, and should be only used under strict doctor's orders.

scpg02 Wrote:I don't think legalization would increase use. It would still be illegal for kids just as cigarettes are and you have seen for yourself how effective that is.

So in your article you only prove that use continues to go up no matter what? Legalizing it would somehow make it decrease? Isn't it doing so with the law against it?

People break the law, so we should just get rid of the law? I do not follow this. You haven't given me much for thinking legalizing drugs will lower usage.

Sorta like legalizing murder and theft too - can't catch them all, and it happens no matter what, so why not? While the two subjects are only related when a sales deal goes bad (or some petty thief steals for some drug money - legalizing it would only make this more pronounced), it illustrates how the principle is flawed.

Quote:Then there is the whole politics of it. I don't think the government should be telling me I can't smoke pot. I actually can't because of my asthma.

They are because many people, most it would seem still, put laws through their representitives in Gov't saying no to May Jane. People, acting through Gov't, are telling you no.

And fortunately, or unfortunately, this means you can't. I do not think your misgivings outdo everyone elses. Besides, Marijuana isn't a right anyways and nothing is being taken from you but a bad smell and a high.

Places where people are saying it's ok in certain scenarios are doing so in legalizing it. Thus, Gov't isn't your problem, people are. Go change them firstly. Wouldn't surprise me if decadence won out over reason at first.

Quote:legalize drugs, legalize prostitution while you are at it. Get the government's hand out of baseball too.

Yes, that would be a great idea. Then we could be like Europe. And the State could regulate it right? This idea comes from a woman?

Great little piece of thinking on this subject: Prostitution and why it's Illegal

Quote:There are several sound and compelling reasons why the world’s oldest “profession” is outlawed, and has
Quote:always been outlawed except in primitive or decadent societies

Good read, pretty erudite guy - I can say he's altered my thinking and influenced it partly. Been reading him for years now.

We could apply same thinking to Marijuana and other little Vices. But hey, we should just legalize it all, regardless, right?. Logically sound as it may be, jt has it right - we're dealing with people here. We're civilized, not decadent anarchists. Why I think public drunkeness is good to have outlawed among other things, even spitting on the sidewalk, and I am a Copenhagen user myself.

Quote:Truthfully there are more important things the government should be worried about. The general public seems blind to what is really going on.

And what might that be? Party conspiracies and stuff? Ron Paul being lost to the world?

You may have kids and I am sure that's wonderful, but telling people who've experienced all this first-hand that they are clueless is arrogant and presumptuous. Especially the way you used "Dear", like you're talking to a child.

We're not children, "dear", and we're not ignorant.

Perhaps you'll treat the articles author the same too?

You may tell them they are wrong, wrong means they have a clue, the wrong one, but a clue nonetheless. Q for example, just has alot of wrong ones.

On top of it, laughing all the while only adds fuel to this fire. And I hate that with a passion you wouldn't believe.

That may have not been your intentions, but that is as I have percieved it. I grew up with such things hanging over me my whole life till I left my home. And the moment I see such things, I want to crush them.

But I will err on the side of caution for now.
Gunnen4u Wrote:And what might that be? Party conspiracies and stuff? Ron Paul being lost to the world?

Real ID for one. This is more than a national ID card proposing to make it hard for identity theft and better terrorist tracking. This is a global ID card that uses face recognition technology. It combines our "national" ID card with Canada and Mexico. And no this isn't just a precursor to the NAU. It creates a global database that will be shared. I'll post the documentation for it in its own thread.

As for the criminalization of both pot and prostitution, it fascist and wrong. It is immoral for religious reasons but it should not be under the purview of the federal government.

That's where I depart from today's "conservatives". They claim to want smaller government and less government interference in their lives but the reality is they want just as much control over our lives as today's left. They just want their rules instead. Hypocracy at its best. No thanks.

I will continue to advocate for freedom, even for freedoms I don't agree with. Example: I advocated against the federal government making partial birth abortion illegal even though I am pro life in the extreme. I don't believe abortion is right even in cases of rape and incest. So why didn't I want the federal government to make partial birth abortion illegal? Because they used the interstate commerce clause to do it and that is unconstitutional in my mind. Abortion should be left to the states.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Gunnen4u Wrote:People break the law, so we should just get rid of the law?

It never should have been a law in the first place.

Edit: Gun, I have a huge amount of respect for your service. You and your brothers in arms are putting your lives on the line to uphold the Constitution and liberties it guarantees. Your service becomes meaningless if it is used to simply substitute one man's fascist rules for another's.

The EU isn't much different in concept than the original United States. There is a joining yet each country is supposedly still sovereign. That's what the US was, a grouping of sovereign states. We've lost that along the way. I'd like to get some of it back. I'd like to have that document you pledged your life to mean something again.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Has anyone ever considered the word "Decrimilization"? I have never understood the high emotion and low logic in this debate.


Fine with me. At least for pot. I still don't understand the logic of prohibition since the 1930s.
I believe that not everything is completely bad or "evil".

the whole issue for me basically boils down to human nature. It's in the nature of some people to overindulge themselves to the point where a drug that otherwise would had done a lot of good, becomes bad.

For those who are against the legalization of pot.... let me ask you this. Why should people with genuine medical conditions who need the "healing power" of pot be punished just because some humans didn't know the meaning of moderation?

Let me list off a lot of examples of legal things that can become "evil" the moment humans overindulge in them:

1) Porn. Yeah, for some people this might be considered the most perverted thing on earth. But it has it's benefits. For instance, there was a study a while ago that showed that areas where porn was legal had less sexual crime than the areas where it was illegal. In places where porn were illegal, there was a very shocking high rate of Rape, etc.
Also, there's a climbing percentage where some porn meant for couples, actually helps couples with their sex lives.
But of course, on the other hand.... If you have too much of it, then it can certainly get out of hand (no pun intended), and for a human who knows not the meaning of moderation. He/she might become so obsessed with sex and the like... that he/she might commit some unlawful acts.

2) Legal Medication. chemical drugs and such made by companies meant to help cut down on any illnesses we might have.
Yet... there's a lot of people who can easily get addicted to those, even if it wasn't supposed to be addictive at all. And of course, those does more damage than pot could ever do because of their chemical nature. Things grown naturally from the earth is less likely to harm your body, after all.
Yet, we don't ban those legal medicines just because of a few addicted humans abusing it. All we did was put in stricter probation on the use of chemical drugs.

3) Water. No, I'm not kidding. There's actually a few humans with a "Addictive personality", where they will basically get hooked on anything, even water.
Now, you might wonder what's so bad about drinking water? Did you know that if you drink thrice the amount required for your body, you start to get this "drunk" feeling, and you can actually die from water intoxication?
Quote:Water intoxication (also known as hyper-hydration or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain function that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by water.[1] Normal, healthy (both physically and nutritionally) individuals have little to worry about accidentally consuming too much water. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests, in which individuals attempt to consume more than ten liters over the course of just a few minutes, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet massive amounts of fluid are still consumed.
There's a lot of health problems associated with drinking too much water too:
Now those articles suggests that humans who get "drunk" on water don't do it on purpose... for the most part that's usually true but there's actually a few who do. Despite all the medical risks associated with drinking a large amount of water.

Now... should water be banned? No, of course not.

I could list so many other things, but I won't. All I can say is that EVERYTHING should be done in moderation. Put some probations on it to reduce use by "addictive personalities", but don't outlaw it completely.
Some people get addicted to sex as well. Gambling, NYT xword puzzles, etc.

Regarding pot, I have no problem with legalization for medical purposes.

The question I would ask anyone proposing general legalization of pot is: do you want to add that to the list of drugs easily available for your teenager to get hooked on? If pot were legal and sold to adults, one would find teenagers getting adults to buy it for them, just as they do now with booze. Are 2 intoxicants better than one? I must say that I have met parents whose children are potheads (addicted) but fewer whose kids are alcoholics. Admittedly my sample is not large enough to be statistically significant. I have met plenty of people who say that pot can inhibit logical thinking and learning for days after the dose is taken. These same people gave it up for that reason, being sensible. This would make pot even more destructive to kids in high school.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
Perhaps the reason why you find fewer kids who are alcoholics is because of the fact that there's probations on underage drinking along with education about what underage drinking causes?

It's in the nature of Teenagers to crave what's "forbidden" to them, because it's basically a mystery to them at times. For instance, the Teenagers who drink seems to be under mistaken assumptions about what drinking means. The teenagers who are more educated about drinking and what can happen, are less likely to do it.

Parents who not only educate their kids on drinking, but actually lets their kids have tiny sips of the real thing to see what it's like, usually becomes successful in preventing their teenagers from having a drinking problem.
I also know this from experience, since my mother did this method with us... and I couldn't understand at the time why adults enjoyed horrible-tasting beverages like beer. The fact that I've also seen seen how much it can make a human act stupid, also helped.
To this day, I don't drink at all because I still don't like it. My brother rarely drinks but he'll have a few with his buddies now (he's an adult too, just so you know). But as an teenager, he never partied with the "help" of alcohol, far as I know.

When you take the "fun" out of the things that are forbidden for underage people, and educate them about Moderation, the side-effects, etc....
Well, they won't be interested in such things anymore. At least not for the majority.

This is what I believe.
Aurora:That's exactly what my parents did too. And it worked.

My dad's favorite trick was to put alcohol in his coke and wait for one of us to try to take a sip. Naaaaaasty.

I've gotten to the point that I can drink *some* things, (Margaritas taste good!) but I'll never be an alcoholic because I don't like the way alcohol makes me feel.
I think this is a very complicated issue

and we all should sit around together,

smoke a joint,

and discuss it rationally.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
Pixiest Wrote:Aurora:That's exactly what my parents did too. And it worked.

My dad's favorite trick was to put alcohol in his coke and wait for one of us to try to take a sip. Naaaaaasty.

I've gotten to the point that I can drink *some* things, (Margaritas taste good!) but I'll never be an alcoholic because I don't like the way alcohol makes me feel.

There are many other forms of addiction "P". For years I was addicted to adrenaline. Fast motorcycles, skydiving, and yes even combat, were highly exhilarating. Nothing will spark a huge dose of adrenaline like being shot at, knowing that there are those out there actively trying to kill you. I know it sounds crazy, but I am not the only one who enjoyed the excitement and the danger.

I used to own a Honda 750CB, and often wound it up to over 100 mph. One day I almost lost it, but it was not until I actually laid it down only doing about 10mph, that I called it quits with two wheels. But the next best thing to combat was skydiving. I've made almost four hundred jumps, and have no idea the money spend on this. It's the one thing I would love to do again, but I know that I have to keep tight control on my ability to crank in the drug. I purposefully drive slower, and am carefull about going to an appointment. If I am late, I never try to make up the time, but speeding. It's like being an alcoholic and then taking that first drink after being dry for years.

Funny, but I never had an addiction to nicotine, alcohol, or even caffine. But adrenaline? Whew!! Shock

John: Skydiving did nothing for me. I was actually bored on the way down. The ground was too unreal and too far away for me to be scared of it. It was cold and loud though... Give me a rollercoaster any day. I love Rollercoasters!

I have had other addictions. I used to chew my nails. That was really hard to quit. They're always RIGHT THERE on the ends of my fingers! It was too easy, when stressed or just not thinking, to slip them into my mouth and start chewing.

I also recently defeated my caffiene addiction. That was easy though, I just slowly mixed more and more decaff into my coffee till it was all decaff. (Then I started putting a little regular in.. just to wake me up but not enough to re-addict)

Motorcycles and combat.. I don't understand how anyone can be into those. Sorry =)
There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. - Winston Churchill

I'm a pathologically addictive personality, unfortunately. Pretty much anythng, including alcohol, caffeine, etc.

Though, I've never been addicted to 'adrenaline', at least not the kind that comes from putting yourself in physically dangerous, or seemingly physically dangerous, situations. I'm even afraid of rollercoasters.

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