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Is Windows Vista the New Windows Millenium?
#21
WarBicycle Wrote:My preference was Windows 2000 Professional, it never crash on me once. The computer I'm presently using has XP Home Edition, I was going to update it to Vista, but the guy who sold me the computer advised me to stay away from Vista.

Vista has been working great for me. [Image: shrug.gif]
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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#22
Vista has been working great for most people.
There's just a lot of F.U.D. about it.
Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings.
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree.
-Geddy Lee, Rush.
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#23
Here is what the webmaster of Global Warming Skeptics has to say about VISA.

Want some cheese with your whine?

http://pctechspot.net/?p=20
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#24
Vista evidently was not very backwards compatible, among other things. One stock investing program I had would not work on Vista. That company made no mention of "just dial up the right compatibility mode in Vista and all will be well". So, MSFT just bulled their way, and left a lot of small or medium sized developers in the dust, scrambling to update. Not a small expense, I think. I don't believe you can set the compatibility mode to accommodate all useful old programs. Another nationally known piece of scientific software is now sluggish to load, evidently on account of the requirements of Vista. With MSFT, its their way, or the highway.

If your uses of software or hardware are minimal, I imagine you could be satisfied with Vista. If you have more particular needs, you could be out of luck. I am NOT talking about games.

Recently, MSFT put out a security patch which caused certain firewalls to block all access to the internet. If you were blocked from the internet, then obviously you could not download the patch from your firewall provider to counter the MSFT bludgeon. Another example of MSFT "it's my way or the highway" attitude. The only sensible thing you can do about this is to cancel "automatic update", and only install updates after your security software has had a chance to adapt.

I'll consider Vista when SP2 comes out. Rather, I will wait till SP2 comes out for the next version of the operating system.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#25
jt Wrote:Vista evidently was not very backwards compatible, among other things. One stock investing program I had would not work on Vista. That company made no mention of "just dial up the right compatibility mode in Vista and all will be well". So, MSFT just bulled their way, and left a lot of small or medium sized developers in the dust, scrambling to update. Not a small expense, I think. I don't believe you can set the compatibility mode to accommodate all useful old programs. Another nationally known piece of scientific software is now sluggish to load, evidently on account of the requirements of Vista. With MSFT, its their way, or the highway.

In a large number of cases, jt, Vista may have appeared to be the problem, but it really was not. Many software vendors did not follow the proper guidelines and procedures with their code, and they knew it. When Vista did follow the Windows software requirements, these vendor's software which they knew was not proper, did not work. Much easier to blame MS than to admit that their poorly and improper code was wrong. Don't know if this is the case regarding the programs you describe, but it could be. It's interesting to note that Microsoft gave these vendor's plenty of advanced notice to correct these problems, too.

Mind you, I'm not saying MS is without fault, but they do get blamed for a lot of problems that rightfully belong to someone else.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#26
Ditto what J.W. said.
jt Wrote:I'll consider Vista when SP2 comes out. Rather, I will wait till SP2 comes out for the next version of the operating system.
The next version of Windows will be based on Vista. If your program isnt compatible with Vista, what makes you think it will be compatible with the next version?

I've ran several old programs that are not supposed to work on Vista, but they do without any special compatibility modes.
It's not that old apps dont work on Vista, it's mostly poorly coded old apps that dont work. Why use a poorly coded app?
Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings.
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree.
-Geddy Lee, Rush.
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#27
From the link I already posted in this page:

Quote:Besides, few people realize that they do have a way out when it comes to using older programs in Vista: It’s called the Program Compatibility Wizard and it may just work wonders on that antiquated game you love so much. I’ll walk you through the steps a bit later, I’m not finished rebuking the uninformed.
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#28
I'll still stick with XP. I always have waited until the proper number of service packs are out, and I also did this with XP before upgrading from 98SE.
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About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
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#29
When my old computer died, due to Disk Scan itself trashing the FAT file, I had to get a new computer that had Windows Vista loaded on it. For the most part, it has worked OK for me. I loved the ease with which it got me onto the Internet, even through the router I share with two other computers in the house. But my old Scanner, a Umax Astra 1210P, which ran on Windows 98, will not work with Vista. Umax does not support that scanner with Vista. Or Windows XP. (Most utilities and drivers that will work with XP are claimed to work with Vista.)
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#30
Ron, don't blame Vista for the problem - blame the earlier versions that made the hookup idiosyncratic. Anything Microsoft has that nature - do it our way or don't do it at all. When I built my first Heathkit 24K computer, you could personally call the tech who invented whatever program or piece of hardware you had a problem with, and he would chat with you until whatever problem you had was understood and fixed. The industry grew - but it wasn't the size that stopped the tech's personal pride in his work - it was the mercenaries who preyed upon their work and bastardized it for their own use.

Microsoft was like Holmes' Moriarty... behind it all there was one master villain.

The new tech advances are so much faster and more stable than their predecessors, that old ways of doing things are no longer backed. If Microsoft hadn't baked so many landmines into their code, and the peripherals that used them, third party manufacturers and designers could have continued to support them. There are just too many conflicting older codes to deal with.
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#31
WmLambert Wrote:Anything Microsoft has that nature - do it our way or don't do it at all.

Sorry, but this made me laugh, especially coming from a "Mac" person.

[rant]Apple has been so restrictive that you've needed their approval and licensing in order to work on their systems. Additionally, don't forget, Apple "owned" both the hardware and operating system until recently. Microsoft's OS's have been running on multiple hardware platforms for years.

The only reason we don't all hate the evil Apple Empire is because they weren't "IBM compatible" in the early days and they were not cost competitive. Make no mistake - the Apple Empire is just as evil, if not more. They just have a higher percentage of fanatical folks in denial about it. [/rant]
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#32
Bill, JW is absolutely correct here! Apple has been so lame, over the years, with complete ignorance as to how to be an economic success, that you should know better by now, being a Supply-Sider.

Mac is to Beta Max, what Microsoft is to VHS. You may safely claim that Mac is functionally better(just like the Betamax folks), but a better attitude? Come on!!!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
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#33
JW Wrote:In a large number of cases, jt, Vista may have appeared to be the problem, but it really was not. Many software vendors did not follow the proper guidelines and procedures with their code, and they knew it.

You are missing my point. The point is that MSFT made a change in their operating system which required many software vendors to change their code. Not all software vendors are able to easily do so, it is not cheap, and I am not sure how specific MSFT was about the code changes needed. (the subject of a great lawsuit in EuroLand).

In the past, MSFT went to great lengths to make their operating system backward compatible, or to provide means for old programs to run. Apple did not; it made a complete change long ago, invalidating all old software and alienating a large portion of their customer base.

The other part of my point is that, there is no demonstrable increase in the utility or speed of Vista over XP. Thus, Vista is just a way for some bureaucrat in MSFT to claim "progress", and to try to sucker a lot of XP users into "upgrading".

No doubt, ultimately new operating systems have to be radically new than old ones. One can proceed as Apple and screw every user at the time of the upgrade, or one can be incremental, as MSFT. However, this time MSFT blew it. They annoyed a lot of software writers with silly new rules that had no payoff, they cost a lot of naifs time waiting for boot up and new drivers, and they let down many people hoping for something really better in the way of security and speed.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#34
jt -

I'm not going to search for the links right now, but the way I understand it, generally speaking, is thus:

In Windows XP, there were a lot of "fixes" and security corrections that MS intended to do, but they did not because of all of the software vendors with the improperly coded programs. MS warned them that they should fix these problems, but many vendors did not. MS somewhat extended this "grace period" by telling them that Vista would meet the standards that XP hadn't been corrected to, and the vendors must correct their programs in order for them to run on Vista.

Some of the vendors complied and had Vista capable programs ready to go when Vista was released. Other's did not correct their programs and required users to upgrade (buy the newer version of their product) in order to be able to run on Vista.

Remember now, this is a general comment - of course there may be, and probably are, problems with Vista and existing software that do not fall under this generalization, but the vast majority did and some still do.

It should be noted that Vista is highly "backward compatible" for programs that were properly coded to run on XP, and Vista's compatibility mode options will run even earlier programs for W98, for example, if they had been properly written, too.

Same problem with drivers - for the most part the early lack of drivers falls directly on the vendors. In some cases, the vendor has stated that the item is too out of date and they aren't going to create Vista drivers. Again, the vendors had ample time to resolve this issue if they had wanted to.

Vista may not be faster, but then, on existing "at the time" hardware, neither was the move from W3.0 to W95, W95 to W98, etc.

Vista is more secure, properly configured, however, which somewhat makes up for the slightly slower speed on current systems.

Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying MS is without fault. They can be blamed somewhat for not providing timely information to some vendors regarding late changes in the Vista OS, for example. But, overall, much of the situation is not MS's fault.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#35
I know one thing for sure, Vista rocks on this 3 year old Dell I upgraded from XP.
Faster, safer, and more satisfying.
Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings.
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree.
-Geddy Lee, Rush.
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#36
I've wondered about this. I know people on both sides. As I am thinking about upgrading my nine year old HP, I know most everything comes with Vista.
[Image: SalmaHayekcopy.jpg]
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#37
Meanwhile Linux is getting better and better. If you are really interested in speed and reliability, this is the way to go. It is much smaller than Windows or Mac could ever hope to be, is virtually crash proof, and does not require huge sums of memory.

the only shortcoming is that it is still just a little bit too geeky, and it does not have all the software available. If you are not into all the many different flavours of software, Linux is the way to go.

Which reminds me, I need to try out the latest Ubutu out there. Wink1
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About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
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#38
Biker Dude Wrote:I've wondered about this. I know people on both sides. As I am thinking about upgrading my nine year old HP, I know most everything comes with Vista.

Unfortunately, most likely, a 9 year old PC will not run Vista. I would check the HP site first to see if they have Vista drivers for that model.

With a new PC with Vista preloaded, the driver issue should not be a problem. As we've mentioned, though, some of your old programs may not run.

I'm running Vista on two systems - a desktop and a notebook. The notebook is dual booting with Win XP MCE and Vista Home Premium. If Vista is slower on the notebook it is hardly noticeable.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#39
JohnWho Wrote:Unfortunately, most likely, a 9 year old PC will not run Vista.

An installed Linux OS will still fly on an old computer like this one. Why not get a new one, and then use this one for a Linux installation? That's what I would do.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
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#40
JohnWho Wrote:
Biker Dude Wrote:I've wondered about this. I know people on both sides. As I am thinking about upgrading my nine year old HP, I know most everything comes with Vista.

Unfortunately, most likely, a 9 year old PC will not run Vista. I would check the HP site first to see if they have Vista drivers for that model.

With a new PC with Vista preloaded, the driver issue should not be a problem. As we've mentioned, though, some of your old programs may not run.

I'm running Vista on two systems - a desktop and a notebook. The notebook is dual booting with Win XP MCE and Vista Home Premium. If Vista is slower on the notebook it is hardly noticeable.
Pardon me. I was imprecise in what I said. I am thinking about upgrading from the 9 year old HP, probably to a Dell. Thanks!
[Image: SalmaHayekcopy.jpg]
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