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All modern discoveries were made by Muslim scientists.
#1
Quote:‘All modern discoveries are by Muslim scientists’

LAHORE: Muslim scientists have made all discoveries of the current age, said University of Columbia’s Arabic and Islamic Studies prof George Saliba at a seminar at the Government College University (GCU) on Monday. The seminar, titled The Problems of Historiography of Islamic Science, was held at Fazl-e-Hussain Hall. Saliba gave a critique of the standard classical accounts of the rise of Islamic science. He detailed problems in the accounts and explained alternative historiography that described the rise of an Islamic scientific tradition as a result of social and political conditions within the nascent Islamic empire. He said Muslim philosophy was the impetus behind Islamic science that had contributed to various disciplines including botany, zoology, algebra, trigonometry, physics, chemistry, astronomy, physics, chemistry, physiology and mathematics in the pre-industrial era. He said the use of decimal fractions was not a Western invention and that it was discovered by a Muslim scientist. He said the binary system, on which the computer was based, was also invented by a Muslim scientist. He said Arab/Islamic science was not an intermediary between Greek science and European science, but was rather the Renaissance that integrated the Islamic science with European science. Saliba also visited the English Language and Literature Department where he engaged faculty members in a conversation on the Islamic and Renaissance paradigms. staff report

His next lecture will be how the Nobel Prize is being hijacked by Judeo-Christian infidels and that Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein were Muslims.
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#2
Looks like the Islamics have outdone the Russians at taking credit for the scientific discoveries and technological advancements of others.

The last thing Islamics discovered was the zero--but wait, no, that was discovered by the Arabs before they got bogged down in the Islamic Dark Age. So the Islamics have not even discovered zero!
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#3
The truth is that Islamic scholars did contribute much to the world of science,...................a long time ago. The main point should REALLY be,......."So what has happened to you guys for the last several hundreds of years" where they haven't done a thing?
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#4
I wonder what distinguishes those Muslims from you three? Christianity taking credit for the scientific discoveries and technological advancements of others?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#5
Here we go again, the Q of Cant repeating fractured chant.

First, in the realm of mathematics both the zero and decimals have nothing to do with Islam and are rooted in Sanskrit (and not Arabic); hence all of these claims demanding Islamic roots are but another facet of the old "You've got to give us some respect" colloqouy! Now the point where scrutiny must be placed is right at this line:
Quote:Muslim philosophy was the impetus behind Islamic science

Yet, here is a Muslim philosopher setting forth on this exact same subject:
Quote:And therefore I want to begin by first of all by expressing for you, (making things easier, categorizing it a bit), three main positions which exist in the Islamic world today as far as the relationship between Islam and modern science is concerned, before delving a bit more deeply into what my own view is. First of all, is the position that many people re-iterate. I am sure many of you in this room, and especially at a place like MIT, who would not have had much of a chance to study the philosophical implications of either your own tradition, that is Islam, nor of Western science, believe that one studies science and then one says prayers, loves God and obeys the laws of the Shariah, and that there is really no problem. This position itself is not something new. It is something that was inculcated in many circles of the Islamic world during the past century and going back historically, it was the position taken up by Jamaluddin Al-Afghani who migrated to Egypt and called himself Al-Afghani. The famous reformer, a rather maverick [figure], of the nineteenth century was at once a philosopher, political figure, Pan-Islamist and anti-Caliphate organizer *. Nobody knows exactly what his political positions were, but he was certainly a very influential person in the nineteenth century, and was responsible, directly, and indirectly, through his student Mohammed Abduh, for the so-called reforms that took place in the 1880’s and 1890’s of the Christian era, that is the beginning of the fourteenth century of the Islamic era, in Eygpt. Jamaluddin has been claimed, interestingly enough, by both modernists and anti-modernists forces like the Ikhwan-ul-Muslameen in Egypt during the early decades of this century.
Jamaluddin was interested in Western science, [though] he had very little knowledge [of it], and he was also very much interested in the revival of the Islamic world. The character of [Jamaluddin’s] argument is absolutely crucial to the understanding of what I am talking about. He came up with view that science per se is what has made the West powerful and great. And the West is dominating over the Islamic world because it has this power in its pocket. And since this is being allowed, this is being done, there must be something very positive about this science, that science itself is good, because it gives power. This was the first part of his argument. Secondly, [he argued], science came from the Islamic world originally and therefore Islamic science is really responsible for the West’s possession of science and the West’s domination of the Islamic world itself. And therefore, all the Muslims have to do is to reclaim this science for themselves in order to reach the glories of their past and become a powerful and great civilization. This is the gist of a rather extensive argument given by Jamaluddin Afghani which equates, in fact, Islamic science with Western science. Secondly, it equates the power of the West with the power of science. To some extent this is true, but not completely so. And thirdly, it believes that acquisition of this science of the West [by the Muslims] is, no more no less, than the Muslims claiming their own property which has somehow been taken over by another continent and [the Muslims] just want back what is really their own. Now this point of view had a great deal of impact upon the Islamic world, upon the modernist circles, and in order to understand what is going on in the Islamic world today it is important to see what consequences flow from this.
I am really addressing my lecture predominantly to Muslims students and scholars and scientists, discussing in a sense family problems. I am sure there are some Christians and non-Christian Western people present which is fine, which is a way to understand another civilization’s struggle to look at the major problems that it has. But my lecture is really tailored to the internal problems of the Islamic world, as far as science is concerned.
Seyyid Hossein Nasr. "Islam and Modern Science"

The full lecture delivered at MIT some years ago is found here:
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/nasr1.htm
But those wishing to delve further can use this Muslim link to move forward: http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/#people

John is quite correct when he wrote:
Quote:"So what has happened to you guys for the last several hundreds of years" where they haven't done a thing?

For in essence, that is exactly what Nasr attempted to explain in his essay:
Quote:And so you have this dichotomy within the Islamic world, in which the modernists refuse to study the philosophical and religious implications of the introduction of Western science in the Islamic world, and the classical traditional ulema, and this cut across the Islamic world, all refused to have anything to do with modern science...This left a major vacuum in the intellectual life of the Islamic community for which every single Muslim sitting in this room suffers in one way or another. Many people think this was all the fault of the ulema. I do not think this was all the fault of the ulema, this is also the fault of the authorities which had economic and political power in their hands, and the two in fact went together. We must add to this a third element [which] is that while science was spreading in the Islamic world, there had been created within the Islamic world, a reformist puritanical movement, especially within Arabia, associated with the name of Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahab, the so-called Wahabi movement, which is still very strong in Saudi Arabia, which in fact gave rise to [the country] with the wedding of Nejd and Hijaz in 1926-27. Its roots [lie] in the eighteenth century when this man lived, and his way of thinking then proliferated into Egypt and Syria.
[Similarly] the Salafia movement in India and other places, [also] wanted to interpret Islam in a very rational and simple manner and was opposed to "philosophical’" speculation and was opposed to the whole tradition of Islamic philosophy. [These movements] all but went along with the more quarrelsome and troublesome dimensions of the impact of science upon the faith system and the philosophical world-view of Islam. It is interesting that the Wahabi ulema in the nineteenth century [rejected] completely any interest in modern science and technology.
What the people involved with Lahore are attempting is an inversion of an acute observation made by Nasr:
Quote:And as science is not a value free activity, it is fruitful and possible for one civilization to learn the science of another civilization but to do that it must be able to abstract and make its own. And the best example of that is exactly what Islam did with Greek science and what Europe did with Islamic science, which is usually called Arabic science but is really Islamic science, done by both Arabs and Persians, and also to some extent by Turks and Indians.
In both of these cases what did the Muslims do? The Muslims did not just take over Greek science and translate it into Arabic and preserve its Greek character. It was totally transformed into the part and parcel of the Islamic intellectual citadel. Any of you who have actually ever studied in depth the text of the great Muslim scientists like Alberuni or Ibn Sina or any Andulusian scientists know that you are living within the Islamic Universe. You’re not living within the Greek Universe. It is true that the particular descriptions might have been taken from the [works] of Aristotle or a particular formula from Euclid’s Elements, but the whole science is totally integrated into the Islamic point of view. The greatest work of Algebra in the pre-modern period is by the Persian poet Omar Khayyam. When we read his book, of course, if when you get [to a] particular formula or equation you could be writing in Chinese or English and could be in any civilization, but the impact that the whole work makes upon you makes you feel that you belong to a total intellectual universe- the Islamic Universe. And this is precisely what the West did to Islamic science. When in Toledo in the 1030’s and the 1040’s the translations of the books from the Arabic into Latin began which really began the scientific changes of the 12th century and again in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries of the West, books were simply being translated from the Arabic into the Latin. The first few decades were very much like what the Islamic world was, or has been, in the last few decades. That is, actual works of, say, Ibn Sina were being read in medicine as if they were in Arabic, but since no one knew Arabic, they were in Latin. They may not have been very good translations but there they were. It only took a century, not longer than that, for the West to make this learning their own. And I always say to Muslims in giving lectures all over the Islamic World, to people in ministries of education, to people who are responsible, that the reason we cannot do this in the Islamic world is that symbolically, and the symbol is important, when the West adopted Islamic science, it even adopted the gown of the Muslim Ulema, * but it never took the turban and put it on its head. The head-dress of the European bishops of the middle ages, was kept on. Whereas at many Islamic universities today, we have taken both the gown and the cap from the West. We cannot think of ourselves independently. The whole thing has been taken over and has now been made our own. This I am giving as a kind of anecdotal reference but it is symbolic really of the type of processes that are going on.
There are two very good cases: One of Greek science taken over by Muslims, [and the other] of Islamic science taken over by the Latin West and later on the European West. In both cases there was a period of transmission but there was also a period of digestion, ingestion, and integration which always means also rejection.
They want to destroy the integrity of historical processes by generating false origins.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein
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#6
Seyyid Hossein Nasr observed,
Quote:This left a major vacuum in the intellectual life of the Islamic community for which every single Muslim sitting in this room suffers in one way or another. Many people think this was all the fault of the ulema. I do not think this was all the fault of the ulema, this is also the fault of the authorities which had economic and political power in their hands, and the two in fact went together.
Must feel like a slap in the face of anybody who wants to prove the whole religion of Islam is backwards and violent, doesn't it drgonzaga? Actually, it's the economic and political powers, and for them, Islam is just another tool to rule. Same with your religion.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#7
quadrat Wrote:Seyyid Hossein Nasr observed,
Quote:This left a major vacuum in the intellectual life of the Islamic community for which every single Muslim sitting in this room suffers in one way or another. Many people think this was all the fault of the ulema. I do not think this was all the fault of the ulema, this is also the fault of the authorities which had economic and political power in their hands, and the two in fact went together.

Must feel like a slap in the face of anybody who wants to prove the whole religion of Islam is backwards and violent, doesn't it drgonzaga? Actually, it's the economic and political powers, and for them, Islam is just another tool to rule. Same with your religion.

Most churches on this side of the pond are nearly empty on Sunday.
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#8
My reading of a couple of "history of Islam/Arabs" books is that their main contribution to science was the preservation of science initiated by the Greek, Roman and Hindu scientists. Yes, there were some modest advances by the Arabs, but no breakthrough results. I looked into the history of Arab mathematics in more detail, and found the same thing.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#9
WarBicycle Wrote:
quadrat Wrote:Seyyid Hossein Nasr observed,
Quote:This left a major vacuum in the intellectual life of the Islamic community for which every single Muslim sitting in this room suffers in one way or another. Many people think this was all the fault of the ulema. I do not think this was all the fault of the ulema, this is also the fault of the authorities which had economic and political power in their hands, and the two in fact went together.

Must feel like a slap in the face of anybody who wants to prove the whole religion of Islam is backwards and violent, doesn't it drgonzaga? Actually, it's the economic and political powers, and for them, Islam is just another tool to rule. Same with your religion.

Most churches on the side of the pond are nearly empty on Sunday.

I think it depends on which churches you are describing. It is is established forms of Christian, such as Roman Catholic, Presbitarian, Methodist, etc, you may be correct. But unaffiliated churches, Evangelical, and others, are filled to the brim and creating new churches. It just so happens that the established churches are World Council of Churches affiliated, and that is the crux of the problem.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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