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Chavez Tightening Grip On Venezuela Further
LOL, John, are you trying to be funny?

Quote:After all, Russia's debt to GNP is in worse shape than the US.

I shall not ask you for a link -- either you just made this up, or used an uninformed source. There are HUNDREDS of sources and you should be able to use Google!


Russian debt to GNP is actually lower than in *any* Western country, check your data. It is also lower than cash on hand -- so Russia can be debt free any moment.



And do you seriously think that 100 soldiers, even the best in the world, can possibly keep an army of a 30-million nation from revolving? This is one heck of a funny theory. S6

Grow up and think, for once; it is simply no fun to talk to a person who makes bizarre statements (or worse yet, believes them S6 )
Sanders 2020

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Yeah, you're right, I misspoke on the Debt to GDP ratio. Doh

(03-25-2019, 11:57 PM)mv Wrote: And do you seriously think that 100 soldiers, even the best in the world, can possibly keep an army of a 30-million nation from revolving?  This is one heck of a funny theory. S6

Grow up and think, for once; it is simply no fun to talk to a person who makes bizarre statements (or worse yet, believes them S6 )

S13
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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The problem is that when people disagree on interpretations it may lead to interesting discussions. But if one cannot get the basic facts right or cannot think logically, it may only lead to waste of time S4


Let me correct another misconception:

John L Wrote:I wonder how many nonexistent US war planes they will be shooting down?


LOL. Not non-existing ---unfortunately -- and air attacks on Venezuela are quite likely what Don Kong et al were planning.


But the bigger misconception is that the purpose of aerial defense is to shoot down planes! This is secondary, the primary purpose is to make the operations of the enemy craft prohibitively expensive and thus limit the enemy's options. Anyone with military connection would be able to explain this to you!


Consider Syria : how many US, "coalition", Israeli planes were actually shot down? None! But the goals of greatly reducing enemy's activities were achieved just fine, a number of "coalition" partners stopped flying altogether, Americans are afraid, and the Israelis only managed a few sneak attacks using the Lebanese airspace and civilian airports for cover.


Anyway, start thinking and checking facts, please ! Make it worth my time S6
Sanders 2020

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(03-27-2019, 01:18 PM)mv Wrote: ...start thinking and checking facts, please !  Make it worth my time S6

The point made was that it is simpler for low-level militarists to "invent" successful engagements than to actually do them. The cheapest engagements for the modern military is to fly drones, with their pilots safely ensconced in Nevada, and armed with Hell Fire missiles to take out any bad guys. Then, the virtually invisible drones will return home for refueling and rearmament. For accurate targeting, the US puts observers in the field to give eyes-on discipline. Only a third-world non-militarists talks about fear of pilots being shot down.

I can imagine anti-aircraft systems in Venezuela powered by treadmills and tin-can communications connected by string. Didn't the Russians just send over 100 advisers and a bunch of string? Same thing in Syria.
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(03-29-2019, 12:36 PM)WmLambert Wrote:
(03-27-2019, 01:18 PM)mv Wrote: ...start thinking and checking facts, please !  Make it worth my time S6

The point made was that it is simpler for low-level militarists to "invent" successful engagements than to actually do them. The cheapest engagements for the modern military is to fly drones, with their pilots safely ensconced in Nevada, and armed with Hell Fire missiles to take out any bad guys.

Drones at this time are more of a terrorist weapon than a military one, but itself they are insufficient for a regime change.

So far we see:
  1. Massive use of drones in Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan by US directly -- many "bad guys" taken out, many more bystanders murdered, little impact on the course of wars.
  2. Syria : US proxies (Al Nusra) against Aleppo. Basically, harassment,  activities stopped pretty much now after the terrorist bases were destroyed.
  3. Venezuela: August's Trump's attempt to murder Maduro, US proxy op. Failed.

At some point drones will become a military weapon, perhaps when the Chinese Swarm concept is tested in a real encounter .. just not yet.

Notice that the latest blackout in Venezuela is said to be created by a high-power sniper rifle shot at a transformer---well... sniper rifles too have some military value, but are they ever decisive? 

But : I'll accept that it may be indeed that taking some personnel from Syria (perhaps the very Aleppo) was to indeed examine a possibility of a new drone assault.
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PS.  The way the situation developed,  Trump now has to overthrow Maduro and destroy the country -- otherwise it is the US that will suffer major economic damage.  Simply: theft of the Venezuelan assets destroys credibility of the US as a financial center.  Trump's expectation was that he could remove Maduro quickly, return the money to the new puppet regime, and avoid the damage.  Now, Dong Kong is stuck.

Meanwhile, more supplies for Venezuela:

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That all sounds..........interesting. Perhaps you can show us some links to substantiate that this is all Bong Dong's fault?
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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Dong Kong, not Bong Kong.  Don the Big Ape, if you like.

And, no, this is *not* all his fault.  Assassination programs in Yemen and Pakistan predate him,  may even predate Obama. They simply continued under Trump.  Google, if interested, you know how.

No evidence that Trump personally ordered assassination of Maduro in August. If you are unable to find a link, this one time, sure:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/05/americas/...index.html

if you really think that the attack level is consistent with the capabilities of Venezuelan opposition, lol... go buy that Brooklyn bridge.

I even would not put a blame on Trump directly for putting the US into the current bind :  it is quite likely that someone else sold him the idea of the possibility of quickly overthrowing Maduro... could be Bolton, could be Abrams, Rubio, etc.   And Trump was not intelligent enough to see the situation, cannot blame him for being stupid, can we?.
LOL... for all I know it was a setup: crash the economy before the 2020 elections S6

Hopefully this is enough: if there is something particular you are unable to understand/google, say what !

Meanwhile, a fresh photo: Chinese humanitarian workers after unloading the cargo.

[Image: D2_lnjFWsAU0gnR.jpg]
Sanders 2020

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Photo 
Things have gotten so bad in Venezuela's trash dump that Venezuelans are moving to their neighbor's trash.

Venezuelan scavengers vie with vultures for Brazilian trash
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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[Image: IMG-567920190502110231.jpg]
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
Reply
I must confess that I have not seen, or heard of, this New York Times article, or the circumstances at other news sites. So this was a surprise, even though I am not shocked at all. And actually admitted by the UN no less.

Quote:Venezuela Forces Killed Thousands, Then Covered It Up, U.N. Says

GENEVA — Venezuelan special forces have carried out thousands of extrajudicial killings in the past 18 months and then manipulated crime scenes to make it look as if the victims had been resisting arrest, the United Nations said on Thursday in a report detailing wide-ranging government abuses targeting political opponents.

Special Action Forces described by witnesses as “death squads” killed 5,287 people in 2018 and another 1,569 by mid-May of this year, in what are officially termed by the Venezuelan government “Operations for the Liberation of the People,” United Nations investigators reported.

Laying out a detailed description of a lawless system of oppression, the report says the actual number of deaths could be much higher. It cites accounts by independent groups who report more than 9,000 killings for “resistance to authority” over the same period.

“There are reasonable grounds to believe that many of these killings constitute extrajudicial executions committed by the security forces,” the investigators said.

[Image: merlin_152932965_51c878ba-a6b6-47aa-a6ca...&auto=webp]
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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Not surprising. And it's going to get worse.
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Fred, my guess is that it is all coming to an end,..... soon. The people of Venezuela cannot withstand much more, and I expect those in the military, who have brains on their shoulders, are going to put an end to it all, one way or the other. And I don't care how many Russians are in the country, they will not be able to stop it.
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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I think you are correct, John, but so many leaders of the movement have been killed or thrown in jail, that few are left to lead. Any resurrection led from the rear end gets really messy.
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