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Chavez Tightening Grip On Venezuela Further
(05-16-2016, 12:58 PM)Palladin Wrote: Here's a question.

Venezuela has some nice advantages such as the oil supply and other natural advantages and has at times been among the most prosperous states in the Americas EX the USA and Canada.

Yet, Venezuela has at least since the 1950s had this strong pull towards a socialist type rule off and on.

Much the same can be stated about Mexico, Cuba, Ecuador, Peru, Brazil, Argentina and probably other states I am not familiar with.

The question is why?

1) Is it they are stupid ?

2) Is it because most the folks think they are being screwed and don't know how to change that other than go for socialism?

I think it's #2 myself. Even in a prosperous state like our's, there is now impirical evidence the middle class is evaporating and there is an ongoing democratic revolt right now to change this pattern.

What if we never had the measures we developed since 1900 to find a middle ground here between uncontrolled capitalism and socialism and 75% of us were dirt poor in 2016 as opposed to 10%? I bet we'd be a socialist state right now if that was how it was with us.

I bring this up because I've been reading about retiring in foreign lands and Panama was like this at one time. Not now and the main advantage they have of course is canal zone revenues and the association with US capitalism.

A guy named Torrijos overthrew the elected state back around 1969. Instead of being uncontrolled capitalist or socialist, he found a middle term that made poor Panamanians love him to this day and yet the economy did well. He may have been murdered or not, we can't know, but, his successor Noriega sent Panama backwards, but, since his demise, these folks have done quite well.

That's what SA is missing and we figured out a long time ago although I am the only poster here who would agree with this view (except Fred I suspect).

Let's look at this culturally, ok?

First of all, every country in Central and South America, with the exception of Brazil, have one thing in common. Can you guess?

Secondly, every country in Central and South America, including Brazil, are lacking one important thing. Can you guess?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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The cultural problem may be the main cause of the 75% of the people remaining ignored by the economic benefits of the overall economy.

Yes, I know Spain colonized them John. Spain also raped the hell out of those societies and post colonial days have seen Spanish descendants fucking the Indian and mestizo vast majority, too.

The question is why do the majority continue to react with socialist desires as opposed to why can't these states come to terms with problems like we did from 1900 till now with an economic order like our's which is both prosperous and way away from uncontrolled capitalism? Although we are heading in the wrong direction apparently if the demise of our middle class is true.

You see everything with a "capitalism versus socialism" lenses and that leaves out tons.

I guess the fact our English speaking progenitors actually moving their families over here and creating homes and a reasonable society for them here has nothing to do with how we developed while the Spanish did not move their families, they came as conquistadors and exploiters of those lands to take away back to Spain.

It's just capitalism versus socialism with you. Might be there's a reason they act this way is the reason I am asking.
No one with a brain thinks socialism works long term.
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(05-16-2016, 01:24 PM)Palladin Wrote: The cultural problem may be the main  cause of the 75% of the people remaining ignored by the economic benefits of the overall economy.

 Yes, I know Spain colonized them John. Spain also raped the hell out of those societies and post colonial days have seen Spanish descendants fucking the Indian and mestizo vast majority, too.

 The question is why do the majority continue to react with socialist desires as opposed to why can't these states come to terms with problems like we did from 1900 till now with an economic order like our's which is both prosperous and way away from uncontrolled capitalism? Although we are heading in the wrong direction apparently if the demise of our middle class is true.

You see everything with a "capitalism versus socialism" lenses and that leaves out tons.

I guess the fact our English speaking progenitors actually moving their families over here and creating homes and a reasonable society for them here has nothing to do with how we developed while the Spanish did not move their families, they came as conquistadors and exploiters of those lands to take away back to Spain.

It's just capitalism versus socialism with you.   Might be there's a reason they act this way is the reason I am asking.
No one with a brain thinks socialism works long term.

You got the first question pretty much correct.  And yes, the Spanish came in and physically removed the wealth, and contributed little toward improving the land they assumed responsibility.  Portugal was different, in that they were primarily interested in trade and using their colonies as jumping off points to economically bolster the home country.   That's why Brazil generally does better,....somewhat better.

But you didn't bother with the second question, or you didn't want to have to admit the obvious.  The obvious answer is that NONE of those countries, with two exceptions, were ever influenced by the British cultural system, in which common law and the Magna Carta were preeminent.  If you look at the total listing of world colonialization, and development following independence, by far the highest percentage of these former colonies have stood above others.  Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand, Belize, and others, are real standouts, because they have inculturated the British Common Law and economic system.  

Weren't you ever taught that in school?  Or is it that you don't believe it, since all those "disgusting" Blokes ever did was rape and pillage, like everyone else?  It is the Common Law heritage that is most important, and it shows, if you are willing to open your mind.  




And NO, everything isn't "Capitalism vs Socialism".   Everything to me is all about Liberty!!!  You got that, once and for all?  And it doesn't matter whether it is economic liberty, political liberty, or whatever you wish to call it.  Why do you think I proudly call myself a True Liberal, in spite of the prevailing ignorance over the designation?  True Liberals LOVE Liberty.  

And I don't use that Marxist word "Capitalism".  Its "Free Enterprise".   And yes I oppose "Collectivism" in all of its flavors, be it Fascism, Democratic Socialism, Socialism, or Marxism.  They're all Collectivists.   And its the polar opposite of Individual Liberty.  How many time must I repeat myself, before you finally get this far and don't skim off into the Wild Blue Yonder? 

If I make this script bigger, perhaps you will actually read it. Gah
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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John,

No, I wasn't taught anything like this in school.

I guess I don't see their problems like you do.

I acknowledge the "economic/legal traditions" difference of the ethnic Euros, but, this is 2016 now, folks can read and observe. In most those states the ethnic Euros were rapacious people to the natives and are not into sharing the economy with them in many of these states from day 1(so were we incidentally in the first century). Instead of developing an economy where a guy like myself can make a decent living, they haven't.

So, guys like me from time to time react with socialism and/or violence. If they can't vote for a measure of the pie, they will steal/ kill for it, it's fairly human conduct to do this.

We had serious labor violence here early in the 20th century and the wealthy used their own violence here. Then, thank God we stopped pissants like Mr. Peabody from paying his workers in company cash and stuff like that.

Down there, in too many cases, they have not done this and until they do, they remain in the socialism/rapacious wealthy taking everything cycle and that's what I find fascinating. There is no reason the poor folks down there would not be satisfied with a fair shake w/o socialism and they just don't seem able to forge a state like that.

They aren't into socialism out of ideology, they are because the system is nothing but a take from them, fuck them and give to the Donald Trumps of the region, so is Mexico. Talk to some Mexicans, notice that only ethnic Euros govern them, I've had that pointed out to me at work by educated visiting Mexicans. Mexico is better off than Guatamala in this specific paradigm, but, only marginally.

I also want to point out that Mexicans around ET are entrepreneurial people, so you can't say they just don't have the English speaking business thing, they do and these are Indians. They don't have a fair shot down south is the problem, whereas they do here and it isn't just socialism that prevents this.

Part of it is unrestricted contempt and greed of their "superiors". Just like a white man in Mississippi in 1950 with black folks. We're changing and they need to.

That economic liberty that does exist doesn't exist equally is my point in parts of the USA even until very recently, it doesn't down there either.
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(05-16-2016, 03:45 PM)Palladin Wrote: John,

No, I wasn't taught anything like this in school.  

I guess I don't see their problems like you do.

I'm sure you weren't.  Government schools I reckon.  I majored in History at The Citadel, and also took a 6 hour(two semesters) of Latin American History from someone who specialized in that.  I'm not an expert, but I do have a good grounding in history and why is it so important to know about why things happened.  

Quote: I acknowledge the "economic/legal traditions" difference of the ethnic Euros, but, this is 2016 now, folks can read and observe. In most those states the ethnic Euros were rapacious people to the natives and are not into sharing the economy with them in many of these states from day 1(so were we incidentally in the first century). Instead of developing an economy where a guy like myself can make a decent living, they haven't.

So, guys like me from time to time react with socialism and/or violence. If they can't vote for a measure of the pie, they will steal/ kill for it, it's fairly human conduct to do this.

And you think the conquered people were all goodness and light?  So you really believe they were all sweet and we Europeans were all "disgusting" Bastards?  

You keep using the American Indians as the world's biggest downtrodden people.  Yet you haven't bothered studying just how they acted amongst themselves.  The different tribes were on a whole, far more blood thirst, murderous, and generally malevolent to their neighbors than we White folks could ever imagine.  Some tribes weren't, but most were in a constant state of war with each other.  Yeah, "Noble Savage" my Arse.

Quote:We had serious labor violence here early in the 20th century and the wealthy used their own violence here. Then, thank God we stopped pissants like Mr. Peabody from paying his workers in company cash and stuff like that.

I've no idea who or what you are referring to.

Quote:I also want to point out that Mexicans around ET are entrepreneurial people, so you can't say they just don't have the English speaking business thing, they do and these are Indians. They don't have a fair shot down south is the problem, whereas they do here and it isn't just socialism that prevents this.

Of course they are.  Its the first real opportunity to actually live their dream of getting somewhere.  And just think, all in this "disgusting", "disgusting", Estados Unidos that you have no hesitation about dragging through every verbal "mud hole" out there.  And nothing is worse than the South.  So why hasn't all this prejudice been washed out of all those Yankees, like Boston?  Oh, wait!, they aren't Southerners, are they?!

You really need to go live in some Third World country and see just how terrible we really are with others.  You've never been anywhere else, so you are naturally spoiled rotten, with local things being all you see personally, on a daily basis.  Life as an Army Brat, and having been stationed in the Orient, I can tell you that all those immigrants aren't dying to get here for just no earthly reason.   They are looking for a better life, and OH, once they get that, then perhaps a little bit of good old fashioned Liberty to go along with it all.

Quote:Part of it is unrestricted contempt and greed of their "superiors". Just like a white man in Mississippi in 1950 with black folks. We're changing and they need to.

I think the correct word you really mean is "Self-Interest".  Believe it or not, everyone does what they think is in their best "Self Interest", both political, economic, or whatever.  You keep throwing "greed" around like it is the ultimate sin.  People look after themselves first, including their family, and everything else takes a back seat.   This is basic psychology 101.  

Your constant use of that word reminds me of the self-righteous student who kept harping on fairness and how we need to all share, and not be greedy.  And then when the test papers came back, she discovered that she was docked twenty points, and her "A" suddenly became a "C".  When she raised holy hell about it, the teacher shrugged and said that she and others needed to share their grades with the other lesser students, and not be greedy.   Then the howling and gnashing of teeth really began, but she thought twice about trying to get others to do something she wasn't willing to sacrifice to obtain.

There's a Great life's lesson there to be learned.  Shock

Quote:That economic liberty that does exist doesn't exist equally is my point in parts of the USA even until very recently, it doesn't down there either.

Exist Where?  And if things have really improved, why are you not happy for the positive change, instead of being such a sour-puss?  Do you now run around in life with the world's many past woes as something to degrade others?  And aren't you thankful for things getting better?  

Start thinking positive, for Heaven's sake.  If you are going to be a self-professed practicing Christian, then act like it.  A cup that is "half full" is far better than one that is "half empty", because of the attitude it generates.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Take the "noble savage" comment. I'm aware that pagan worshipping Indians are also humans and do bad things to each other.

That isn't what we were discussing. It doesn't do me any good to exclaim, "pagan Indians were mean to each other so it's fine if I lied to, bullied, stole from and persecuted some of them".

Good Lord John.

Mr Peabody of Peabody Coal Corporation.

In the above discussion, it has been a given that the south American states have FAILED to match the north American states in fairness for all, so your reply about my view of ""disgusting","disgusting" Americans" or that I "really need to visit a 3rd world state" shows you aren't interested in anything but a reactionary robotic reply.

I realize we are a big, powerful nation with a good economic status compared to most. So was Rome when Nero was burning our Christian friends on stakes at his parties. There are other things more important to me than having to make a comparison between our forefather's conduct and ancient Roman conduct though to make us look superior.

Go read Jeremiah or Isaiah and see how much a big sour puss those 2 guys were. They were harder by far on Israel than the pagans because Israel worshipped God, not the gods.

Neither wasted a lot of space on the pagans, just Israel's refusal to hear YHWH. Would you have ignored those 2 because they pointed out the flaws of Israel constantly? What good would it have done you to remind Isaiah that "the Canaanites are even worse"!

The USA has always had a large % of believing Christians living here and there is no excuse for our severely "disgusting" errors and we have had several. It doesn't help that pagans did the same nonsense with me anyway. It's our job to stand against these errors John,not to make excuses for them.

IMO, no man with a heart read "Jacksonland" and not be moved to extreme angst at how brutal our forefathers were to good Indians who shared our faith largely, had their boundaries respected by the US and protected by law by the US Army, ask to become a state and then to be treated as bad as the pagan Nipponese did our fathers in Bataan.

I have no desire to compare those men who had a large Christian component to pagans to make them look better, they look like a big pile of moral shit, period. Especially Andrew Jackson the thief and ringleader who was busy stealing their land behind the scenes via his cronies to keep his name off the public view.

Just because they're exceptional Americans.
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(05-17-2016, 12:00 PM)Palladin Wrote: Take the "noble savage" comment. I'm aware that pagan worshipping Indians are also humans and do bad things to each other.    

That isn't what we were discussing. It doesn't do me any good to exclaim, "pagan Indians were mean to each other so it's fine if I lied to, bullied, stole from and persecuted some of them".  

 Good Lord John.  

Good Lord Patrick.  

You just don't get the point here, and a great deal of the friction we have generated before this.  Its your outlook on the Universe, and life in general.  You are fixated on the worst in things, because it is the main theme of almost everything you write about.  Are you this way in your everyday existence as well?  

There is so much beautiful and wondrous things that we flawed humans contribute on a daily basis that we are a net plus, no matter how much harm we humans heap upon each other.  

Instead of zeroing in on only the worst in the world, try tempering it with the beautiful things we ""disgusting"" and "flawed" members of genus homo put forth.   You NEVER talk about such things.  

Why are you so Negative and Cynical about life in general?  

I don't visit my Church as much as I should, and I have a problem with my depression, but I can actually feel my Creator a part of my life.  And I am constantly looking for the finer things in this universe.  I'm in the middle of going through a Russian photo site right now.  And there are so many talented photographers from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and other countries, it is just marvelous to spend time there sucking in all of the wonders of this planet.  

I'm totally in Rapture of Lofoten/Reine, Norway, and regardless how desolate it is, it is the most beautifully magnificent place I have ever seen before.  The combination of nature and humanity is startling, and in a positive way.  I really want to go there before I die.  

Try spreading joy to others.  You're not the Creator, passing judgment on we lowly homo sapien sapien.  But you have to work at it.  Allow an equal amount of good to go along with the bad, for heaven's sake.   Learn to set aside your Puritanical outlook, please.

Think Positive!  Christ loves you.  Hell, even I love you, you East Tennessee Hick.  S22
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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John,

Jeremiah wasn't the creator either, he just refused to ignore the obvious "disgusting" of his own neighbors is all. Some of our stuff is so obviously terrible it shouldn't be disagreeable to say it.

It is not being judgmental to ask why Americans think they have the right to tell other people how to live, tell other nations who their leader can be, invade foreign lands that do not threaten us. It's a basic sense of justice not dumbed down by mindless nationalism.


I assume you'd take the same view of this if we were Germans in 1934?

No holocaust yet, no crystal night of 1938, just the mindless paradigm that did exist, jingoism, large part of the church changing it's theology to remove Jesus from His Jewish roots, deporting a handful of Christian theologians with integrity who spoke out, murdering a handful of German rabble rouser pastors who must have also thought they were God since they were so judgmental about the path Germany was on. Stupid fuckers brought it on themselves.

Be happy, Jesus loves us, cheer up, enjoy life, stop thinking you are the creator, you judgmental jackass!

Sound about right to you?
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Every Collectivist System needs an official Scapegoat, so as to have someone/something to blame for their failures. And Socialist Venezuela is no exception.

US military plane made 'illegal entry' over Venezuela: Maduro. My guess is that a "National Emergency" will need to be declared soon.

Opps, I'm a little behind in the news. Just four hours ago there is this:

Quote:President Maduro has announced a 60-day emergency, giving soldiers and police wider powers to deal with the country's spiralling economic crisis.
Mr Capriles said the decree gave the president unconstitutional powers.

He called on Venezuelans to ignore it and take to the streets on Wednesday.

"We, Venezuelans, will not accept this decree. This is Maduro putting himself above the constitution," Mr Capriles told journalists.

"To impose this, he'd better start preparing to deploy the war tanks and military jets," he added.

"And I tell the armed forces: The hour of truth is coming, to decide whether you are with the constitution or with Maduro," he said.

I wonder just how opposition leader Henrique Capriles has managed to stay alive, and out of prison?

And also, about the same time today: Venezuela leader sees 'disappearance' of opposition legislature.

Quote:President Nicolas Maduro predicted on Wednesday the imminent demise of Venezuela's opposition-led parliament, amid an acrimonious conflict of powers that is delaying solutions to its economic crisis.

"The National Assembly has lost political validity. It's a matter of time before it disappears," Maduro told reporters.

The 53-year-old socialist leader did not specify further on what could happen to the legislature, although last month he threatened a constitutional amendment to cut its five-year term.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Do any of you guys study on western foreign debt as a strategy to control foreign states? This turns out to be part of the problem.

Our states encourage our banks to make bad loans to these type nations, keep them in deep debt so they are malleable when we come calling. It causes tremendous societal problems for them and when they default, our states just take care of the bankers using our public assets.

That appears to have been a partial catalyst for the Chavez revolution which has now destroyed the nation. One more reason to oppose western foreign affairs, this is corporatism on the international scale. Remember, this is 1989 before Chavez:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

https://www.google.com/search?q=caracazo...bhAjHdM%3A
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Again, Heinlein's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don’t rule out malice.

You're biggest problem is that you automatically attribute all bad outcomes as a product of "disgusting", instead of stupidity.  And even worse, you forever rule out "stupidity".   This makes your cynicism even more illogical.  

Do you honestly believe all this to be malice from Washington?  Stop and think a minute.  If we (Uncle Sam) wished to conquer/control Venezuela, can't you think of a better and more efficient manner of accomplishing it?  And once stage one was accomplished, then why didn't we just move in and complete the conquest?  

Why must everything always be attributed to maliciousness and "disgusting"?  

Stop and think about it, ok?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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John,

It's part of western strategy, that's not stupidity, that's "disgusting". The only stupidity is on the part of the lemmings receiving banks loan that should know they can't pay it back. These banks pay the slickest liars on earth to push those loans and you & I help repay them after revolutions like Venezuela had.

You really need to open your eyes to how these uber wealthy people are using western states to advance their kingdom at everyone else's expense.

This is not free enterprise, this does not promote freedom, this is nothing but a nexus of western states and big bankers causing misery and benefitting from it. Those people do not deserve your respect. Eventually, you are going to mentally pivot to the current paradigm and forget the left right debate, that's not what the problem is anymore.

It's the super wealthy using the rest of the people on earth w/o asking. I don't mind a guy like Buffet making another trillion as long as I have a choice in him making it. That's free enterprise, this high pressure banking loan thing is to keep these weaker states indebted to us when we need their votes at the UN.

It helped bring on Chavez, consider that. This problem is not as simple as "well, Venezuelans are stupid". Chavez got elected because the west caused misery down there BEFORE Chavez.
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Quote:It's part of western strategy, that's not stupidity, that's "disgusting".

Could you share a copy of that directive/strategy, where you gained that revelation?

By "The West", you mean the US, correct?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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This just in from my friends at FEE, on the allure of Socialism and why it just won't end with the collapse in Venezuela.

Venezuela's Collapse Won't Bury Appeal of Socialism:
As "21st Century Socialism" Unravels, the Siren Song Remains


Quote:Evolutionary psychology provides one plausible answer. According to Professors John Tooby and Leda Cosmides of the University of California, Santa Barbara, human minds evolved in the so-called “Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness” between 1.6 million and 10,000 years ago. “The key to understanding how the modern mind works,” Cosmides writes, “is to realize that its circuits were not designed to solve the day-to-day problems of a modern [humans] – they were designed to solve the day-to-day problems of our hunter-gatherer ancestors.” In other words, modern skulls house Stone Age minds. So what are some of the characteristics of these Stone Age minds and what do these characteristics tell us about the way we understand economics?

Quote:-First, we evolved in small groups. We knew each other and were, probably, related to each other. In a world without specialization and trade, gains by one group, “us,” tended to come at the expense of another group, “them.” That makes it difficult for us to understand and appreciate gains from complex economic activities, such as global trade.

-Second, like many other animals, we have evolved to form hierarchies of dominance. And, like other animals, we resent those at the top and form coalitions to displace them. Our resentment of hierarchies includes not only zero-sum hierarchies, like dictatorships, which channel resources to the top, but also positive-sum hierarchies, like corporations, which improve human lives.

-Third, the “social nature of hunting and gathering, the fact that food spoiled quickly, and the utter absence of privacy,” Will Wilkinson writes, meant that “the benefits of individual success in hunting or foraging could not be easily internalized by the individual, and were expected to be shared. Envy of the disproportionately wealthy may have helped … those of lower status on the dominance hierarchy guard against further predation by those able to amass power.”

Put differently, humans are, by nature, envious, resentful and unable to comprehend, let alone appreciate, a sophisticated economic system that has evolved in spite of, not because of, our best efforts.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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I think everyone associated with the USA is the west and they all take part in this stuff with the exception of the poorer eastern states. We're the head of it, they all partake. I'm sure Deutsch bank is loaning Burundi money like BOA is that they would never loan you and I, they do it because they know our states will steal from us to make them whole.

If you need proof that western banks loan money to foreign states under circumstances that they would not under normal business practices(because our states guarantee them a return with our money), you have not been watching the last 65 years of US foreign policy.

Do you think they loan this money for normal business purposes and get caught off guard when revolutions/defaults occur? You think they take risks doing this and lose assets?

Wake up John, the corporatism nexus has been ongoing in banking since before WWII and the misery they create in those societies when they cannot stand the taxes to meet the payments doesn't bother the board members or the mindless governors we hire.

I get that you fought and saw men die for this nation and I respect you for that, I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you could step back and see some of our terrible policies also. They are awful and cause human misery and it is unbecoming of us to just sleep walk through life while these heartless, uber greedy bastards use other people like dish rags and steal from us when it goes bad.

It probably benefits us and I don't want more income while I end up sending cash to Africa and Central America when people are in terrible conditions upon missionary request and it is not as simple as left versus right, there are other factors and 1 is western policies sometimes harm weaker people.

It's just not 1 issue. Venezuelans would never have revolted and fallen for Chavez's nonsense if their previous state had not been in such a bind they started the "tight wad" fiscal policies due to the huge debt payments to western banks for loans they never should have taken and the banks never should have loanded and the state here never should have guaranteed.

It is like our mortgage crisis, can't you see how those greedy bastards got away with dishonorably pushing for a couple of decades their useless flexible rate no interest payment for 7 year loans, then just executed repo operations every 7 years while the home value was sky rocketing? That's what the stinking bastards do to these poor nations.

Yes, the recipients should not be so stupid, but, we see many are. I can tell you some personal stories about family members selling life insurance products to black families if you want me to in Atlanta they knew was a rip off. They laugh about it John, there are some seriously hard hearted people in our nation's economic system.

I don't think you realize how cruel lots of salesmen are.
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More insight and wisdom from my friends over at FEE.

Socialist Self-Deception: Einstein and the USSR to Bernie Sanders and Venezuela:
Even Einstein Could Not See the Value of a Free Economy


Quote:Albert Einstein is supposed to have defined insanity as “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Yet, as the economic implosion of Venezuela reminds us, we seem to be unable to stop repeating the same terrible mistake: trying to make socialism work.

And of course, Einstein proved that he too is victim to his own maxim above. He promoted Socialism, showing that there is definitely a huge difference between "intelligence", i.e. IQ, and "Wisdom". Albert Einstein may have been the smartest person alive, but he was far from the wisest, for certain.

The writer shows a letter a former professor wrote to his parents, about his discovery inside the SSR. Its very revealing, and exactly what I experienced during my week in Moscow. Poverty, suspicion, and cynicism. I wonder what Einstein would have to say about what is going on in Venezuela, a country with the greatest known oil reserves on the planet, and yet so poverty stricken that like the former SSR, no toilet paper, no food, no good health care, no............................

I liked this part of the letter best, because it is so apropos, everywhere Socialism is practiced.

Quote:But the most horrible thing is the people’s faces – 13 days without seeing a smile, only hard, bitter, scowling faces with eyes that peer out suspiciously. Couples walking arm and arm down the street scowling. People playing checkers in the park scowling, little children scowling.

Yep, I can well remember that exact same thing on a personal basis from the 60s. Gah

[Image: 1-shutterstock_371802880.jpg?center=0.96...2530000000]
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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In defense of Einstein and his hope for Socialism, there was a time, before all the facts came in, that most intellectuals truly believed that it might work. Many got sucked in, before the reality sank in. Most of FDR's Fellow Travelers were named that because of their visits to "Uncle Joe" to hear all the wonders that were now possible. It all came down to the mentally superior elites running things correctly, that mere circumstance never could get right. Of course, Uncle Joe lied through his teeth, and FDR's advisers never saw behind the Potemkin Villages.

It is also true that in 1932 Duranty received a Pulitzer Prize for Correspondence for a series of reports about the Soviet Union, that told all those intellectuals how well it was working. The New York Times faced massive efforts to get his Pulitzers revoked. The NYT wrote in 1990 that his articles constituted "some of the worst reporting to appear in this newspaper."

The same phenomenon that has enabled Global Warming allows "Useful Idiots" to believe that Lenin and Engels were great prophets, and it only needed the right people to make it work. You'd think someone as smart as Einstein could get it right, but he was notoriously slovenly and lazy. Why work to debunk what you think is true?
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Regardless Bill, it still confirms what I have always stated about the fundamental difference between Intelligence and Common Sense, i.e. Wisdom.  They are not the same, and nobody discusses it that way.  Limbaugh doesn't; Levin doesn't; Nobody does.  And it is so fundamental that everyone on the right should be trumpeting it to one and all.  The only person who comes close is the Evan Sayat fellow, who developed the "Kindergarden of Eden" scenario.  

Someone can have all of the intelligence in the universe and still be a blithering fool, because wisdom is something acquired over time, which is applied to all that intellect, over and above.  That's why Farmer John has more common sense than the Einsteins out there.  He has experience in the Real World, applied to his intelligence.   He has gone through the business of experiencing all the day to day lessons.  The intellectual pin-heads are just theorizing things.  

And they don't know first hand how things really work in the Real World.  And too, they don't understand why humans are successful and the fact that it is "Self-Interest" that Always comes first and foremost above everything else.  People can call it selfishness, greed, or whatever, but "self-interest" is the key to survival and passing one's genes on to the next generation, not giving your life so others can do the same thing.  

Its your genes that matter most to you.  So you strive for success, find a good mate, and produce children who will keep your line alive.  That's what this entire thing is all about.  All of this Altruism comes second to self.  All those 'so called' Robber Barons are reviled because they made a fortune creating things, and accumulated huge wealth, fame, and success.  But once they felt secure in their ability to pass their genes along, they turned around and gave of their wealth to humanity in the form of trusts, museums, education funds, etc, etc.  But only After they took care of their self-interests first.  

And that is what Einstein and all those Utopianists are totally unable to comprehend because they don't know squat about human nature and how to be successful.  And it doesn't matter how brilliant they may be.  If they are lacking of wisdom, then they are still intellectual children, trying to relive the things their kindergarden teachers kept trying to drum into their heads.  "Now children, we are all supposed to share our things and give to others, so as not to be a greedy bastard."  

Screw all that.  This is all about genes and passing them on to others of their own lineage.  That's why self-interest is so important.  Collectilvism, in the guise of Socialism, Communism, Fascism, etc, is all about the Collective, and human nature is all about the Individual.  That is why Individualism is the key to long term success.  I cannot stress this enough.   Gah
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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(06-02-2016, 03:12 PM)John L Wrote: ...I have always stated about the fundamental difference between Intelligence and Common Sense, i.e. Wisdom.

Always have agreed with that. Moreover, there is book smart and street smart. The problem is, they are not always affiliated with wisdom. Bill Clinton and Hillary are street smart because they are total pragmatists who don't care what the facts are. To fight such a thing on the streets often require a gang-riot. Following Alinsky's rules, Machiavelli, or Sun Tzu's the Art of War, may be a way for a community organizer to gain power, but how that power is used is what is telling.

As long as a complicit media does not act with honor, the common man does not get the facts needed to make good judgements of decisions made.
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This last protest was a little different.  Opposition protests have previously been generally professionals and middle class folks.  This one was apparently an organically generated reaction from the poor after apparatchiks jumped a line and started helping themselves to the "free food" ... denying people that had been waiting for hours in the heat.  If Maduro begins losing the support of the poor, he's pretty much down to cronies and the military ... and the military can probably get turned ... especially if they start going hungry like everybody else.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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