Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Clovis Comet, Carolina Bays, And Younger Dryas Related?
#1
For many years now, the mystery of the vanishing fauna in post Pleistocene North America, has stumped paleontologists.  How did so many species suddenly disappear.  And this ranges from the giant bison, ground sloth, dire bear, smilidon, North American horse, mammoth, and many others.

Theories have ranged from viruses to human interaction, to haitat change.  Yet none of them have really been carried the day, as all have been a real stretch of imagination.  As a graduate student I have always believed that there had to be something other than invading humans responsible, because the diversity of extinctions and their suddenness just did not add up.

Now there is a new theory out, and it does not rely upon any of the above causes.  This one is celestial in nature, and is currently under close scrutiny.  It's also a new theory, having just been raised in 2007, so it will be disputed for years to come.  But it makes sense, just as mass extinctions in the past, have almost all been the result of celestial Impactors as well.

As an anthropologist, I find this spellbinding, because the implications are Huge.  The prospect of random Impactors, capable of causing such disruption, adds to the threat of cyclical Inpactors which can cause even more damage and extinction rates.  In other words, the longer we continue to keep all of our eggs in one single basket, the greater the odds that we too will be made extinct by some Impactor in the future.

Quote:New Clovis-Age Comet Impact Theory

Newswise — Two University of Oregon researchers are on a multi-institutional 26-member team proposing a startling new theory: that an extraterrestrial impact, possibly a comet, set off a 1,000-year-long cold spell and wiped out or fragmented the prehistoric Clovis culture and a variety of animal genera across North America almost 13,000 years ago.

Driving the theory is a carbon-rich layer of soil that has been found, but not definitively explained, at some 50 Clovis-age sites in North America that date to the onset of a cooling period known as the Younger Dryas Event. The sites include several on the Channel Islands off California where UO archaeologists Douglas J. Kennett and Jon M. Erlandson have conducted research.

For a more detailed and close examination of the theory, you can read more here: THE CLOVIS COMET Part I: Evidence for a Cosmic Collision 12,900 Years Ago
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#2
I saw something on the Discovery channel (I think) that mentioned the possibility of an impact.
It makes sense. We couldnt have killed everything with spears.
Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings.
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree.
-Geddy Lee, Rush.
Reply
#3
The thing that leaves me scratching my head is the frequency with which commentators, and even scientists use "asteroids" and "comets" so interchangably. There is a big difference, and an impact by one will not be akin to that of another.

Usually, the 'so called' experts will tell everyone that the dinosaurs were killed off 65 million years ago, by a huge asteroid. But the odds of that are very small, and a comet is a 90% certainty. Comets streak around the solar system at two to three times the velocity of asteroids. This means that the kenetic energy of a comet is far greater, and the time from atmosphere to impact will be much less, even coming in at a 30 degree angle, which is what the dinosaur killer most likely entered the atmosphere.

Also, comets are almost always much bigger than asteroids. Some of them are simply Huge, and if they were to Impact the earth, they would do far more damage than the 6 mile comet that struck 65 million years ago.

But the theory here of an air burst leads me to think that this may have been an asteroid, or a very loose, and small comet. It's hard to tell, but I have not read about any evidence of iridium as of yet. Comets will give off more iridium debris, so we shall have to wait and see what the debris layer shows on this.

But I am fairly certain that an Impactor is the reason for the mass extinction of certain fauna in North America . As a matter of fact, it is starting to look like ALL mass extinctions are the result of celestial intervention. This is why I am amazed with the Eco-Wackos's hysteria about something as benign as global warming, and totally oblivious to the REAL DANGER, which lies out in the Ort Cloud and Kuiper Belt. All it takes is for one of these Impactors to give us a personal visit, and we are Truely Screwed, Blued, and tatooed.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#4
John L Wrote:The thing that leaves me scratching my head is the frequency with which commentators, and even scientists use "asteroids" and "comets" so interchangably. There is a big difference, and an impact by one will not be akin to that of another.

Usually, the 'so called' experts will tell everyone that the dinosaurs were killed off 65 million years ago, by a huge asteroid. But the odds of that are very small, and a comet is a 90% certainty. Comets streak around the solar system at two to three times the velocity of asteroids. This means that the kenetic energy of a comet is far greater, and the time from atmosphere to impact will be much less, even coming in at a 30 degree angle, which is what the dinosaur killer most likely entered the atmosphere.

Also, comets are almost always much bigger than asteroids. Some of them are simply Huge, and if they were to Impact the earth, they would do far more damage than the 6 mile comet that struck 65 million years ago.

But the theory here of an air burst leads me to think that this may have been an asteroid, or a very loose, and small comet. It's hard to tell, but I have not read about any evidence of iridium as of yet. Comets will give off more iridium debris, so we shall have to wait and see what the debris layer shows on this.

But I am fairly certain that an Impactor is the reason for the mass extinction of certain fauna in North America . As a matter of fact, it is starting to look like ALL mass extinctions are the result of celestial intervention. This is why I am amazed with the Eco-Wackos's hysteria about something as benign as global warming, and totally oblivious to the REAL DANGER, which lies out in the Ort Cloud and Kuiper Belt. All it takes is for one of these Impactors to give us a personal visit, and we are Truely Screwed, Blued, and tatooed.
--------------------------------------------
Well...

We have a pretty good warning system. They will not just come tomorrow unnoticed...

/track_snake
Reply
#5
It's not the big ones that you can see that are the problem but the small rubble piles that go unseen and break up that are the real threat. One such rubble pile wiped out east Asia. The only evidence of the event is wide spread natural glass.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Reply
#6
scpg02 Wrote:It's not the big ones that you can see that are the problem but the small rubble piles that go unseen and break up that are the real threat. One such rubble pile wiped out east Asia. The only evidence of the event is wide spread natural glass.

Maggie, I'm not familiar with that one. Can you point me to the story?

I know that the globe is litterly pocked with impact craters, most of them hard to find. I know that there was an explosion over the Sahara, and there is a glass residue, but don't know of one that hit east asia. I think in your instance that would be an atmospheric burst. And I wouldn't be surprised if the total number of air bursts don't outnumber the ones that actually hit the ground.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#7
Which are worse, comets or asteroids? At least most known comets have predictable orbits. Maybe it is the unknown ones that cause trouble. In that case, there is no difference, except the velocity. Probably we can detect them, with a few months to spare, but what can we do about it? After all, Mr. Willis is aging.

Comets, I have read, are mostly ice. Now how would an ice ball hit on the earth, leaving no atmospheric dust, and leaving no crater (and therefore no ejecta dust) have much effect at all, except for the devastation of a shock wave?

Now why is it that a large number of animals would become extinct in NA with a comet/asteroid hit, but not the humans? For me, that needs some explaining. Sure, humans are omnivores, but animals can travel faster to greener pastures, and the number of disparate animals is substantial.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
Reply
#8
John L Wrote:I know that the globe is litterly pocked with impact craters, most of them hard to find. I know that there was an explosion over the Sahara, and there is a glass residue, but don't know of one that hit east asia. I think in your instance that would be an atmospheric burst. And I wouldn't be surprised if the total number of air bursts don't outnumber the ones that actually hit the ground.

Yes, while investigating that one they surmised something similar was also the cause of the Asian glass. It's mentioned in the show about the African glass. Instead of having one large atmospheric burst, you get many if the object breaks up and you have multiple impactors.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Reply
#9
jt Wrote:Now why is it that a large number of animals would become extinct in NA with a comet/asteroid hit, but not the humans?

Actually they almost did. There was an extinction event that left only a few thousand humans. This caused what they call a genetic bottle neck in the DNA.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Reply
#10
John L Wrote:The thing that leaves me scratching my head is the frequency with which commentators, and even scientists use "asteroids" and "comets" so interchangably. There is a big difference, and an impact by one will not be akin to that of another.

Usually, the 'so called' experts will tell everyone that the dinosaurs were killed off 65 million years ago, by a huge asteroid. But the odds of that are very small, and a comet is a 90% certainty. Comets streak around the solar system at two to three times the velocity of asteroids. This means that the kenetic energy of a comet is far greater, and the time from atmosphere to impact will be much less, even coming in at a 30 degree angle, which is what the dinosaur killer most likely entered the atmosphere.

Also, comets are almost always much bigger than asteroids. Some of them are simply Huge, and if they were to Impact the earth, they would do far more damage than the 6 mile comet that struck 65 million years ago.
This is so not completely correct. The small thingis are called meteorit, and when more than 10m across, they can be asteroids or comets. Their distinction is the visible or not tail. Even according to your definition, asteroids would be far bigger. There are 1,000 km objects in the asteroid belt.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Reply
#11
Here are a couple more schollarly publications on the topic.

Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years ago that contributed to the megafaunal extinctions and the Younger Dryas cooling

Younger Dryas "black mats" and the Rancholabrean termination in North America, by C. Vance Haynes, Jr*
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#12
Here is something else, that is related to the topic, but in the southeast. The Carolina Bays, by George A. Howard, 1997. I was not aware of Carolina Bays until today, but a cursory examination of them clearly shows them to be of celestial origin. I can't say that I agree with the concept of the bays being the result of cosmic 'burns', but they certainly look like an impactor that broke up and hit the planet in 'shotgun' form. I know that I would not wish to be within the area when this occured.

And that brings up another question. When did the Carolina Bays occur? Was it at the same time as the Clovis Comet? Or was it earlier? Or perhaps later? When it happened, there has been time for the topography to have leveled out.

It seems that the more we look at the planet, the more we realize that earth have been bombarded by celestial objects on a continual basis. I would think this to be far more frightening than the worry about global warming, wouldn't you?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#13
JohnL Wrote:It seems that the more we look at the planet, the more we realize that earth have been bombarded by celestial objects on a continual basis. I would think this to be far more frightening than the worry about global warming, wouldn't you?

Boy, those elliptical formations sure do look like craters from an oblique hit.

Yet people live in LA and San Francisco, oblivious to the coming earthquake. Folks build flimsy houses in NO, Florida.

No one seems to care unless the time horizon is under 30 days. The only way to get a good quantitative fix on this is to have a futures market for earthquakes, asteroid hits and gw negative consequences.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
Reply
#14
The more I read about this topic, the more enchanted I become. And rooting around a little more, I think I have come across an article about mammoth extinction, that led up to this theory. And it deals with a supernova, and the effects being felt here as a result. It's very fascinating, and the detective work done on this is quite extensive, to say the least.

Supernova Explosion May Have Caused Mammoth Extinction
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#15
I was trying to get Andre to come post. He has done a lot of work on the younger dryas.
As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."
Reply
#16
scpg02 Wrote:I was trying to get Andre to come post. He has done a lot of work on the younger dryas.

This Clovis Comet theory just makes too much sense, and fits in too well with the catastropic flooding of the North Atlantic and the Younger Dryas, to be simply ignored.

I am currently reading about the latest work, dealing with the presence of shore line Chevrons and how Asteroids or comets, impacting the ocean, throw up mega-tsunamis, and there is quite a bit of evidence around the world. Most of the study is centered on Madagascar and Australia, and several undersea impact craters have been discovered. When I finish with it, I will post it too.

I am simply spellbound here.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#17
John L Wrote:The more I read about this topic, the more enchanted I become. And rooting around a little more, I think I have come across an article about mammoth extinction, that led up to this theory. And it deals with a supernova, and the effects being felt here as a result. It's very fascinating, and the detective work done on this is quite extensive, to say the least.

Supernova Explosion May Have Caused Mammoth Extinction
--------------------------
Yes, it is really fascinating.

My question is: If this was produced by a supernova 250 light years away; when will the remnants of the supernova associated with the birth of Christ hit us (how far away was that supernova?).

/track_snake
Reply
#18
track_snake Wrote:Yes, it is really fascinating.

My question is: If this was produced by a supernova 250 light years away; when will the remnants of the supernova associated with the birth of Christ hit us (how far away was that supernova?).

/track_snake

At one time it was theorized that the star of Bethlehem may well have been caused by a supernova. The late Arthur C. Clark published a short story in 1956, entitled The Star. It won one of the very first Hugo Awards, and I consider this to be the best SiFi short story ever written, if not THE best ever. If you have not read it, please take the time and go to the link and read it. It is a True classic.

This story influenced me for many years, upon reading it as a young man. However, in the last twenty years, it has been pretty much proven that the Star of Bethlehem was a Conjunction of two or three planets, most notably Saturn and mars. There is quite a bit of information out there, but this one by Susan Carroll, does a great job of covering the bases.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#19
Here is some more Carolina Bay information. To my thinking, this has got to be Impactor related. And the dating appears to be older than the Clovis Comet timeline. If you look at this Google Earth Shot, it is like looking at the effects of a shotgun shell being fired at a target, off to a slight angle. And these landmarks are found all over the North American continent, not just in the Carolinas. This points to some HEAVY bombardment from outer space. To acheive this, the Impactor would have had to break apart, waste most of it's energy in an atmospheric burst, and then the reminents striking the earth at many places, some greater than others.

And here is another picture. If you look closely, you can see that there are much older ovals, that have practically disappeared, and newer ones on top of the older ones. Clearly, this is not just a "one shot" deal, but occurs constantly, geologically speaking. Sort of makes one feel less than secure from the danger of being destroyed some day when you least expect it.

[Image: cbaymbso.JPG]

This abstract does a pretty good job of covering the details of the Bays and their implications.

Quote:A COMET AS THE BAY FORMING MECHANISM *

One other aspect peculiar to comets may be important to the genesis of the Carolina Bays. Because of the volatile content in a comet nucleus, a collision trajectory may not result in actual impact. Observations of meteors and fireballs indicate that some of these objects break up as they enter the Earth's atmosphere and sometimes explode in the air.

The 1908 Tunguska fall in Siberia is commonly regarded as the explosion of a very small comet nucleus. Hartmann (1973, p. 146) said that the explosion, estimated to be 1021 to 1023 ergs, knocked a man off his porch 38 miles away. Trees as much as nine miles from the impact site were felled radially outward by the shock wave, whereas trees at ground zero were merely denuded of their branches and left in growth position. Baldwin (1963, p. 37) added that trees in protected locations such as deep valleys remained standing and in some cases were still alive. According to Hartmann ( p. 146), by 1928 when trained observers first visited the site, they found the impact site to be pockmarked with a series of shallow, funnel-shaped depressions of variable width but not more than four or five meters in depth. No meteorites were discovered. Baldwin (1963, p. 37) noted that in 1928 the original forest vegetation was replaced with tundra except in the craters where swampy vegetation was already well established Hartmann (1973, pp. 146-147) summarized the evidence supporting a cometary origin for the 1908 fall:

1. The object evidently exploded in the air, since trees at "ground zero" stood upright but were stripped of branches. A loosely consolidated ice comet nucleus would be expected to volatilize and explode before it hit the ground.

2. The lack of meteorite fragments is consistent with our picture of a predominantly icy nucleus.

3. A 1961 expedition recovered soil samples that contained small spherules believed to be part of the object. The spherules would be consistent with the idea of an admixture of small grains of non-icy "dirt" in the dirty iceberg and their spherical shape could be the result of sudden melting during the explosion.

4. Observations of the motion of the object across the sky indicated that it was traveling toward the earth probably in retrograde motion at a very high velocity, perhaps 50 km/sec, which would be typical of a comet but not of ordinary meteorites. .

5. For weeks afterward, the night sky in Europe and Russia was anomalously bright. This may have been due in part to atmospheric interaction with tail and coma material (although the comet was too small to have been noticed prior to the collision, being on the order 101g to 1011g in mass instead of about 1018g, typical of observed comets).

Multiple shallow craters of variable widths, a climax vegetation destroyed except where topographically protected, the absence of meteoritic finds, a high velocity but low angle trajectory, plus a shock wave felt at least 38 miles and heard 620 miles from the impact site suggest a cometary explosion before actual impact. Hartmann stated that the Tunguska fall was a small comet nucleus. If such a singular event happened once, it could happen at least once more.

But if you think that this is less than worrisome, consider this. While these impactors break up in the atmosphere, there are many more that actually expend their energy upon striking the planet. There is no way of telling which is tme more prevelent, but there are still many, may earth strikes.

Also, it is slowly becoming clear that most major disruptions to human civilization were the direct result of celestial impacts, which disrupted the agricultural and climate conditions, resulting in collapses of civilizations. Even the "so called" Dark Ages are now being attributed to the aftermath of bombardment.

The Dark Ages : Were They Darker Than We Imagined?, By Greg Bryant. This is a very fascinating article. Here is some of it.

Quote:Mike Baillie is Professor of Palaeoecology at Queens University, Belfast, Northern Ireland. He is an authority on tree rings and their use in dating ancient events (every year, a tree adds a "ring" to its trunk as it grows - good years are represented by thick rings while bad years are represented by thin rings). He conducted a complete (and continuous) review of annual global tree growth patterns over the last 5,000 years and found that there were five major environmental shocks that were witnessed worldwide. These shocks were reflected in the ring widths being very thin. Wanting to know more, he turned to human historical records, and found that the years in question (between 2354 and 2345 BC, 1628 and 1623 BC, 1159 and 1141 BC, 208 and 204 BC, and AD 536 and 545) all corresponded with "dark ages" in civilisation.

Most people who are fairly knowledgable of astronomy, are familiar with the Torids, a meteor show(comet debris tail) that the earth goes through annually. Usually it is accompanied by a shower of debris, known to have come from the bread-up of the comet Encke, which had to have been one HUGE comet. But we do not cross it's main path often.

Quote:The calculations for the Taurids suggest that we pass through the core of the meteor stream approximately every 2,500 years - today, we are passing through the outer edges. The last two occasions when we passed through the core were in 2200 - 2000 BC and in AD 400 - 600. The epoch around AD 3000 looks like being a fun time too - the Y2K doomsayers can always say they just got the millennium wrong.

If you will note the dates above. The first timeline, 2200-2000 coincides with the end of the Bronze Age, and the 400-600 period that of the Dark Ages. Could this be just a coincidence? My guess is no.

Quote: "A large fraction of the objects on Earth-crossing orbits, of all dimensions, are the daughter products from the break-up of a giant comet some time during the past 100,000 years, dynamical studies suggesting around 20,000 years as likely. All that is suggested here is a break-up similar to that undergone by P/Shoemaker-Levy 9 in 1992, except by a comet at least 100 kilometres across and in an orbit crossing from Jupiter to the Earth.

The core of the complex...evolves to have a node near 1 AU every millennium or so, at which time the Earth is bombarded by many [large] objects in episodes at certain times of year. It is these events that dominate the hazard to humankind. Such an episode would last for a century or two."

We have a pretty good idea that there are some HUGE comets out there in the Ort Cloud, and they are mainly long term comets, so we cannot project their danger until they enter the inner solar system, and are affected by Jupiter's gravitational pull, which will alter it's orbital path. If a comet can be 100 km or more, the danger presented it unimaginable.

Also, remember, asteroids are made up of the same material as that of comets. All are material from the original forming of the solar system. The only difference is that comets still retain a larger amount of volatile, frozen gasses, that have not vented out. But they still have large amounts of solid components. And most inner orbital asteroids are nothing more than comets that have already broken up and assumed more stable orbits.

Is Global Warming worth worrying about? Should we be worried about a warmer planet? Or should be be Really concerned about some huge object dropping in, from outer space, and obliterating civilization, on moment's notice? I'll let you decide that one, I've already made up my mind, a long time ago. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
--- SCHiST Happens! ---
Reply
#20
Well, I know that some are worried by global warming. Warming is good for some but bad for others.

But I agree with you about the danger of comets. I thought we had a reasonably good warning system that would give us some time to prepare.Even if they move fast there are many astronomers keeping a watch on the sky.

/track_snake
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)