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Clovis Comet, Carolina Bays, And Younger Dryas Related?
#81
(02-07-2014, 05:27 PM)John L Wrote: And going back to the late 70s, early 80s food fight concerning the iridium layers that marked the transition from dinosaurs to mammals
Well, as I have stated above I have yet to see a single piece of tangible evidence indicating transition from one species to another. Everyone always points to Darwin. But what did Darwin have? Darwin said some Finches evolved to Finches with different size beaks. But they were still freakin' Finches!

(02-07-2014, 05:27 PM)John L Wrote: But I am more than comfortable in stating that when the dust settles
LOL I get the pun... S13

Yes, Scientists and doctors have egos and make proclamations based positions from authority void of any and all evidence. Or more aptly put by and with great frequency by our buddy Christopher Walter Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley argumentum ad verecundiam in Latin.

In a nut shell I am totally happy with a position that concludes, 'we we neither have the tools or the data to come to a conclusion'.
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#82
Here's the latest attempt to disprove the possibility of a celestial object being the trigger for the Younger Dryas Boundary Event: What Caused a 1300-Year Deep Freeze? Andhere is the actual position paper, with the Abstract.

As the chart shows, the Younger Dryas Boundry Event was obviously the result of an horrendous event.

[Image: clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=623&h=394]Temperature fluctuations over the past 17,000 years showing the abrupt cooling during the Younger Dryas. The late Pleistocene cold glacial climate that built immense ice sheets terminated suddenly about 14,500 years ago (1), causing glaciers to melt dramatically. About 12,800 years ago, after about 2000 years of fluctuating climate (2-4), temperatures plunged suddenly (5) and remained cool for 1300 years (6). About 11,500 years ago, the climate again warmed suddenly and the Younger Dryas ended (7). Graph by Don Easterbrook.

And one thing is certain: the vast, and overwhelming majority of catastrophic events on this planet, are the result of celestial cause. So, if not an Impactor, then what pray tell? Its obvious that I believe the sudden change was the cause of an Impactor, and certainly not some huge geological volcanism. And if the later, it was caused by an Impactor opening volcanic venting, just as occurred during the Permian Extinction Event.

And note that there is no alternative theory mentioned in the position paper. So what caused it if not an Impactor?
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#83
(05-17-2014, 07:28 PM)John L Wrote: So what caused it if not an Impactor?

The oceans.
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#84
(05-17-2014, 10:23 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 07:28 PM)John L Wrote: So what caused it if not an Impactor?

The oceans.

Makes no sense. Please explain in more detail.
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#85
(05-17-2014, 10:24 PM)John L Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 10:23 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 07:28 PM)John L Wrote: So what caused it if not an Impactor?

The oceans.

Makes no sense.

That is a rather bizarre thing to say being that the oceans regulate our planets temperature.

(05-17-2014, 10:24 PM)John L Wrote: Please explain in more detail.

It is striking that in 1.3k yrs our earth can become a frozen topped earth with mile high sheets of ice. 1000 plus years in geologic times is not much.

Somewhere I have a nice time-lapse of the arctic minimum illustrating what has been happening.

The Pacific Ocean interacts with the Atlantic Ocean atmospherically and through water currents through the arctic.

Winter sea surface ice along the Bering straight is melted by spring & summer waters and blown North and East towards the Atlantic Ocean.

Atlantic sea surface ice along Canada & Greenland's northern shores are melted by sea surface temps in the lower arctic but the temps in the upper arctic do not go below freezing. So the ice does not melt. It has to be blown south.

The action of the dissipation of the Arctic sea ice is from the blowing out via atmospheric & ocean currents through the straights between and around Canada and Greenland into the lower latitudes of the Atlantic. Think about ocean currents and wind blowing big icebergs out to find tiny little Titanics.

When the straights between Northern Canada & Greenland are open because of thin & broken up Sea Surface Ice. The ice is easily blown out to sea from the high arctic to the lower arctic and eventually into the North Atlantic shipping lanes. Much of the ice originated in and around the Bering Straight. The oceans & sea ice flow East over the Arctic.

When the 'Perfect Ice Storm' occurs a plug is placed in and around the Canadian/Greenland straights stopping ice from flowing from the West to the East and melting in the warmer waters of the North Atlantic below the Arctic Circle.

Case in point:

There are now record thick massive bands of 4-5 meter sea ice in and around the Canadian/Greenland straights where ice is normally blown out to sea. There is a possibility of the whole arctic sea surface ice flow to be blocked up over the next few years all the way to the Pacific.

If there is not a series of big storms or El Niño or PDO activity with the quietness of the sun(sun spots not interacting magnetically) the increased ice in the Atlantic can cause an extreme Thermodynamic arctic sea surface ice albedo effect. The AMO is going to be cool for maybe 60 years - check the latest from Bastardi.

Due to the increased arctic icecap, there is little or no transpiration of vapor from ocean to atmosphere in the arctic and the cold air mass builds. In response the tropic oceans increase in transpiration of vapor sending streams of saturated clouds to the Arctic where they condense into layer upon layer of snow and compressed into life killing miles of ice sheets which apparently if we are to believe our geologic record can happen rather quickly.

I fear a coming ice age not global warming.
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#86
(05-17-2014, 11:09 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 10:24 PM)John L Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 10:23 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 07:28 PM)John L Wrote: So what caused it if not an Impactor?

The oceans.

Makes no sense.

That is a rather bizarre thing to say being that the oceans regulate our planets temperature.

No, it isn't at all. Obviously you have not had a chance to read my many posts about the el Nino/la Nina effect, and the almost certain relationship of the heat from within the planet. I'm convinced that the heat radiating through smokers and volcanic action, located on the ocean floor, is putting out a tremendous amount of heat, which is radiated outward and upward. We haven't even scratched the surface of mapping all the volcanic venting, which is much closer to the hot mantel. Its just one more of my hair-brained theories that will take time to have verified over time. Dr Patrick Michaels thought my thinking was out in Left Field, but I disagree with him there.

(05-17-2014, 10:23 PM)Paul In Sweden Wrote:
(05-17-2014, 10:24 PM)John L Wrote: Please explain in more detail.

It is striking that in 1.3k yrs our earth can become a frozen topped earth with mile high sheets of ice. 1000 plus years in geologic times is not much.

Somewhere I have a nice time-lapse of the arctic minimum illustrating what has been happening.

The Pacific Ocean interacts with the Atlantic Ocean atmospherically and through water currents through the arctic.

Winter sea surface ice along the Bering straight is melted by spring & summer waters and blown North and East towards the Atlantic Ocean.

Atlantic sea surface ice along Canada & Greenland's northern shores are melted by sea surface temps in the lower arctic but the temps in the upper arctic do not go below freezing. So the ice does not melt. It has to be blown south.

The action of the dissipation of the Arctic sea ice is from the blowing out via atmospheric & ocean currents through the straights between and around Canada and Greenland into the lower latitudes of the Atlantic. Think about ocean currents and wind blowing big icebergs out to find tiny little Titanics.

When the straights between Northern Canada & Greenland are open because of thin & broken up Sea Surface Ice. The ice is easily blown out to sea from the high arctic to the lower arctic and eventually into the North Atlantic shipping lanes. Much of the ice originated in and around the Bering Straight. The oceans & sea ice flow East over the Arctic.

When the 'Perfect Ice Storm' occurs a plug is placed in and around the Canadian/Greenland straights stopping ice from flowing from the West to the East and melting in the warmer waters of the North Atlantic below the Arctic Circle.

Case in point:

There are now record thick massive bands of 4-5 meter sea ice in and around the Canadian/Greenland straights where ice is normally blown out to sea. There is a possibility of the whole arctic sea surface ice flow to be blocked up over the next few years all the way to the Pacific.

If there is not a series of big storms or El Niño or PDO activity with the quietness of the sun(sun spots not interacting magnetically) the increased ice in the Atlantic can cause an extreme Thermodynamic arctic sea surface ice albedo effect. The AMO is going to be cool for maybe 60 years - check the latest from Bastardi.

Due to the increased arctic icecap, there is little or no transpiration of vapor from ocean to atmosphere in the arctic and the cold air mass builds. In response the tropic oceans increase in transpiration of vapor sending streams of saturated clouds to the Arctic where they condense into layer upon layer of snow and compressed into life killing miles of ice sheets which apparently if we are to believe our geologic record can happen rather quickly.

I fear a coming ice age not global warming.

Again, I am not arguing that one bit. I was referring to the sudden and abrupt freefall(geologically speaking) of the global climate temperatures, at the beginning of Younger Dryas. There are many, many examples of this sudden drop, and then sudden rebound, and it shows up in the Lake Vostok temperature/CO2 charts.

[Image: 03-CO2---Vostok-Ice-Core.gif]

My guess is that you do as I sometime do, as do others. You have paid close attention to the first part of my earlier posting, and then quickly skimmed over the rest. This tends sometimes to distort the true meaning of the posts. I too am sometimes guilty of this, because I am in a hurry. But in this case, I am referring to the underlying cause of the sudden drops in temperature at the end of the last glaciation.

Oceanic venting could not be causing this effect. And surface volcanic activity would not be suddenly concentrated were it not for some other outside force to initiate it. That is where Impactors would come in. We're hit all the time with asteroids, and periodically comets, which tend to do a great deal of damage, and heavily influence the equilibrium of our climate. Then things rebound again upward, and it keeps occurring again and again. And the Lake Vostok data clearly shows this, going back several hundred thousand years into the past.

I've read about some geologists, who blame the Permian Extinction event(249 million years ago) to vulcanism within the Siberian plates. But that is an 'effect' and not the real 'cause'. If one, or more, comets slammed into the planet, during one of the solar system's close flybys of a hidden brown dwarf, it would shake out many, many comets, and some would impact on to this planet.

And the result of a comet/comets strike would cause a ripple effect, out from the crater, since the planet's shin crust is floating on a hot liquid mantle. As the ripple effect radiated around the world, the ripples would suddenly meet on the other side of the globe, causing tremendous damage to the fault lines on, or near, where they met. Hence, the real cause of the Siberian faults going so active. This is just common sense 101, and only the highbrow egos of some scientists refuse to connect the dots.

I'm just saying that the overwhelming majority of change to this planet is caused by celestial influence, including the tidal effect from the moon, and other Jovian planets. Its not a lot, but just enough to release plates, and cause some distortion of the thin crust, as the liquid within the planet slowly shifts from one place to another.

There is a very precise equilibrium to the planet. And any outside influence tends to tip the scales of this equilibrium one way of the other. For instance, it is not proven, but I believe the joining of North and South America, via the Isthmus of Panama, is the reason for the Pleistocene and the resulting ice ages. They almost exactly coincide with each other, time wise. All of the warmer Pacific Ocean warmer waters, were blocked from bleeding into the Atlantic, causing just enough change that the Malankovich Cycles produced repeated ice ages about ever 107,000 years. If some warmer Pacific currents had been able to move into the Atlantic, it may well have been enough to maintain the thin equilibrium that is no longer there.

I hope this clarifies my position better.
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#87
Not for nothin' John, but take a look at that ice core data.

Whats up with the somewhat regular sudden extreme drop in temps?

Is there a bus schedule of catastrophe that I am not aware of?

Are there global cyclic patterns that we have not yet identified but seem quite clear in the ice core data?

As the regularity of ice ages are evident on the geologic record and our more serious scientific inquiry has been exterior to our planet without indication of regular catastrophic intergalactic bombardment I would venture that the regular ice ages are generated by interactions between our planet and our sun.

BTW: Without high SUV & fossil fuel use our closest planets are experiencing Global Warming also....
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#88
The ice age schedule is based on the Malinkovich Cycles, which are universally accepted. You can check out the search page, and go to many that explain it for you.

As for an Impact time table, there is the Nemesis Theory. We have not yet discovered a brown dwarf.....yet, to confirm this theory. But there is also the Galactic Plane Theory. One of these two theories are almost certain to be the cause of the almost clockwork timetable for massive comet bombardment, emanating from way out around the Oort Cloud. Its about every 32 million years. Sometimes the effect is minimal, and others, such as the Permian and KT Boundary Extinctions, there is heavy bombardment. But clearly there is a correlation, time wise.

In the meantime, we are being constantly bombarded by Impactors on a random basis. And too, remember, over thousands of years, the sudden dips and climbs are exaggerated, or stretched out, when put on a chart. But all this sudden up and down is not caused by the heat from within the planet alone. Something, some outside force, is causing all this change in climate. And I say it is just as the late Eugine Shoemaker has stated all along.

We are in a cosmic shooting gallery. And no matter how many times an object may miss us, there are so many that the odds are against us. Plus, those misses just keep coming back for another shot for the gold, so to speak.
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#89
(05-18-2014, 10:28 AM)John L Wrote: The ice age schedule is based on the Malinkovich Cycles, which are universally accepted.

Sins of omission are both recognized and unforgiven. Yes, it is true that some ice ages are due to the Malinkovich Cycle which you can read from your own link and learn that not all ice ages are due to the Malinkovich Cycle.
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#90
Perhaps not. However, the Pleistocene Ice Age, is one. Unfortunately, scientists have officially ended the name 'Pleistocene' and now call the continuation the 'Holocene', showing hominids as the reason. I don't really agree with this, but that is the way it goes now. But we are still smack dab in the middle of the very same ice age that has been around since the end of the Miocene.

Each stage of the 100,000 glaciation is punctuated by another 10,000 years or so of warm interglacial, and we are approaching the end of it. No telling when we will really come out of this major ice age, but the shifting continents make all of the difference, either hindering, or abetting the flow of warm oceanic waters to the polar regions.

The only thing that could possibly halt the next glaciation stage would be a means of arresting the formation of ice in the polar regions. And that would require some space based mirror arrangement. And also the halting of Impactors, by moving them out of the way, and using them for useful purposes. S22
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#91
Here's more evidence, that is accumulating, showing that a celestial event did in fact cause the Younger Dryas period, which lasted some thirteen hundred to fifteen hundred years.

A Cataclysmic Event of a Certain Age: Geologist James Kennett and an international team narrow the date of an anomalous cooling event most likely triggered by a cosmic impact

[Image: 112518-004-AADA8FF8.gif]

[Image: Figure%203S_ENH_0.jpg?itok=qTfAKbA_]

Obviously the accumulated data needs a great deal more in order to gain a better global picture. If the Comet did in fact strike, or detonate, in the atmosphere over North America, then the extinction of mega-fauna would be pretty much assured as the direct cause, with humans being only the final stage of the equation, due to overhunting.
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#92
Finally it appears the naysayers over the validity of the Younger Dryas Impact Event, also known as the Clovis Comet Event, have been debunked, once and for all.  Even as late as 2016, peer reviewed studies were still appearing in an attempt to throw cold water on a celestial event causing mass extinctions and climate havoc.  

But this very large study throws cold water on the nay-sayers,..again.

Extraordinary Biomass-Burning Episode and Impact Winter Triggered by the Younger Dryas Cosmic Impact ∼12,800 Years Ago. 1. Ice Cores and Glaciers

This layman's article from physics.org covers the general thinking.

Quote:Research suggests toward end of Ice Age, humans witnessed fires larger than dinosaur killer, thanks to a cosmic impact

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-02-ice-age-hu...r.html#jCp

On a ho-hum day some 12,800 years ago, the Earth had emerged from another ice age. Things were warming up, and the glaciers had retreated.

Out of nowhere, the sky was lit with fireballs. This was followed by shock waves.

Fires rushed across the landscape, and dust clogged the sky, cutting off the sunlight. As the climate rapidly cooled, plants died, food sources were snuffed out, and the glaciers advanced again. Ocean currents shifted, setting the climate into a colder, almost "ice age" state that lasted an additional thousand years.

Finally, the climate began to warm again, and people again emerged into a world with fewer large animals and a human culture in North America that left behind completely different kinds of spear points.

This is the story supported by a massive study of geochemical and isotopic markers just published in the Journal of Geology.

The results are so massive that the study had to be split into two papers.

"Extraordinary Biomass-Burning Episode and Impact Winter Triggered by the Younger Dryas Cosmic Cosmic Impact ~12,800 Years Ago" is divided into "Part I: Ice Cores and Glaciers" and "Part 2: Lake, Marine, and Terrestrial Sediments."

The paper's 24 authors include KU Emeritus Professor of Physics & Astronomy Adrian Melott and Professor Brian Thomas, a 2005 doctoral graduate from KU, now at Washburn University.

"The work includes measurements made at more than 170 different sites across the world," Melott said.

The KU researcher and his colleagues believe the data suggests the disaster was touched off when Earth collided with fragments of a disintegrating comet that was roughly 62 miles in diameter—the remnants of which persist within our solar system to this day.

"The hypothesis is that a large comet fragmented and the chunks impacted the Earth, causing this disaster," said Melott. "A number of different chemical signatures—carbon dioxide, nitrate, ammonia and others—all seem to indicate that an astonishing 10 percent of the Earth's land surface, or about 10 million square kilometers, was consumed by fires."

According to Melott, analysis of pollen suggests pine forests were probably burned off to be replaced by poplar, which is a species that colonizes cleared areas.

Indeed, the authors posit the cosmic impact could have touched off the Younger Dryas cool episode, biomass burning, late Pleistocene extinctions of larger species and "human cultural shifts and population declines."

"Computations suggest that the impact would have depleted the ozone layer, causing increases in skin cancer and other negative health effects," Melott said. "The impact hypothesis is still a hypothesis, but this study provides a massive amount of evidence, which we argue can only be all explained by a major cosmic impact."
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#93
If I may, let me throw some words of caution on my last post, regarding the Younger Dryas Impact Event, that is a two part pair of articles, coming from the University of Kansas.  I've gone back and reread the piece and also the Abstracts to the papers.   I have not shelled out the necessary $20 which would enable me to download the articles.  

But here are a few things worth keeping in mind.  First of all, this is a PR piece, from U of K, and sent to Physics.Org.  All Physics.org did was simply copy and post what the UK people have been advertising, by tooting horns and waving flags, in order to promote U of Kansas.  In other words there is a lot of politicking going on.

If you note, much is said about this impact event being more eventful than the Cretaceous mass extinction event (K/T Event).  Both events were compared, and the U of Kansas is made to look bigger than the former one of 65 million years BP.  But this article is comparing apples with oranges, and they aren't the same.  

Here's what I mean.  The K/T event was made up of at least one major Impactor, which struck the upper Yucatan Peninsula.  We don't know yet, but there were probably more lesser bodies entering the atmosphere.  However, the Big One clearly struck the planet and caused the entire crust to undergo severe buckling and sliding sliding, from all over the globe.  Volcanoes planet wide would suddenly become active, and geological plates would be going crazy.  This would be a planetary event of colossal magnitude.  

But here is where the K/T event would be hands down far more destructive.  Had this 'so called' Clovis Comet actually struck the earth, there would be one Huge crater left behind.  And it would be so obvious, having occurred less than thirteen thousand years BP.  There is no way for it to have been covered over, or enough ice sheet to absorb the kinetic energy without still piercing the crust.  That leaves only one conclusion here.  The Younger Dryas event was almost certainly an atmospheric explosion.  This is why there would be so much burning of vegetation to go with it.  But clearly the later is nowhere near the impact(pardon the pun) of the former.  

Obviously U of Kansas is really tooting up things in order to greatly enhance its own stature.  My point is that even academia is more than capable of embellishing things over and above what has actually happened.  Perhaps I should try to get in touch with Dr. Bill Bass, and Dr. Richard Jance, and see what they think of all this.  I mention their names because the two left U of Kansas in a major dispute, in the early '70s, and set up the anthropology department at UT, where I studied.   I'll bet they really did have a couple of jokes about the advertisement, and just how revolutionary it really is.   Spiteful

And don't get me wrong here, it was revolutionary, BUT definitely not anywhere near that of the K/T Impact Event.  Had it been anywhere equal to the K/T event, human civilization would almost certainly not be around, sending people to the moon, or building skyscrapers.  The genus homo would still be doing its best just to survive.  S13
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#94
Last Extinction.Nova


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#95
PREHISTORIC MEGASTORMS - COMET STORMS


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#96
I just came across this Youtube video series, from about a month ago, which tackles the Carolina Bays event, most likely the Clovis Comet Impactor over the North American Laurentide Ice Sheet.

There's some new information here, which adds to the subject on how this event would be the principle cause for the mass extinctions of mega-fauna.  For instance the ejected impact material causing the bays are now made up of ice and slush, instead of earth material.

But the biggest advance is the new use of "Lidar" imaging.  And unlike the earlier use of areal photography and radar rendering, the magnitude of craters using this new technology are astounding.  The known number of bays goes from thousands to hundreds of thousands.  If you click on the top image at the link above, you will get a huge "6182 X 5400" which shows craters in such quantity that it is easy to see jpw almost all the mega-fauna were killed instantly.  

[Image: carolina_bays_utm_web.jpg]

And the professional quality of the presentation is quite good.

Carolina Bay Formation--A REALLY bad day! Part 1: What are Carolina Bays




Carolina Bay Formation Part 2: LiDAR...A Game Changer!


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#97
Carolina Bay Formation Part 3: The Impact!




Carolina Bay Formation Part 4: WHEN!?!


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#98
Carolina Bay Formation Part 5: The Younger Dryas


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#99
It should be obvious to anyone who looks at the Moon, and notices how heavily cratered it is, that the same cometary bombardment must have struck the Earth, as well. In fact, since the earth is much larger and has a much stronger gravity field, the Earth was probably even harder hit.

The question is how short or long a time did this cometary bombardment take? I agree with those Creationist scientists who speculate that this is what precipitated the Genesis Flood. That would put the time scale on the order of days or weeks.
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