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Clovis Comet, Carolina Bays, And Younger Dryas Related?
#21
track_snake Wrote:Well, I know that some are worried by global warming. Warming is good for some but bad for others.

But I agree with you about the danger of comets. I thought we had a reasonably good warning system that would give us some time to prepare.Even if they move fast there are many astronomers keeping a watch on the sky.

/track_snake

I'm not certain how many there really are Now, but just a few years ago, the old saying amongst the concerned was that there are more people working in a typical McDonalds restaurant than looking for potential impactors. And that is not very many, if you catch my drift?

And global warming is so insignificant as to be akin to a pimple on a gnat's arse. In fact global warming is good for humans, not bad, regardless what the recipients of glory/money/power will tell you.

Impactors are BAD NEWS!!
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#22
Don't get carried away too much. There are some formidable problems linking A to B. Incidentely a friend of mine is trying to test the Firestone impact hyporthesis on this.

So there is this black mat dated 10900 radio carbon years (~12,920 calendar years BP) and at the base of that, higher radioactive particles and magnetic microspherules, which are also associated with wild fires.

There are several more black mats during the last glacial transition see here.

Nothing strange with that, it's just a mat of algae remains indicating still water ponds which likely dry out with seasons. This would indicate wetter than normal conditions which dovetails with other research, notably change from pine dominated forest (dry) to spruce dominated forests (wet).

Then the date itself, well we are rolling up the sleeves and spitting in our hands for the oncoming fight that 10,900 carbon years ago is approximately 200 years before the start of the isotope drop of the Younger Dryas. I mentioned that somewhere else. There is ample evidence for that in independently counted layer records. However this date does indeed seem to be at the start of a cold period. There is a formidable challenge there, that is if a bunch of geologists is prepared to open their eyes and wonder a bit why.

So did we need a extraterrestrial event for that? Not very likely, it may have been there, certainly, but the many (20 something) Dansgaard-Oeschger events before the Younger Dryas and their transitions, show exactly the same isotope signature. Unlikely, that all of them can be associated to extraterrestrial events.

Then there are the massive unusual oceanic changes all over the place which may have been more cause of climate changes than effect.

Finally did the event cause mass extinctions? Also a bit of a problem, since the big dying out started some 17,000 years ago and may have lasted until only 3000 years ago, with the last Mastodon somewhere in the US of A. There may have been a peak extinction moment at the onset of the Younger Dryas, eradicating both the Clovis and the Woolly mammoth. But this was also the start of the thriving of the same species in North Siberia. So the event, if correct, may or may not have caused one or two species to die out but could not have played more than a marginal role in the whole late pleistocene extinction event.

I'm afraid that the extraterrestrial thing is not the neat end solution to all the fuzz going on at the end of the Pleistocene.
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#23
Specific impacts are hard to pinpoint precisely. However, if you follow the accumulating evidence that we are constantly being bombarded, then the likely culprit is that of celestial origin.

Also, how do you account for this picture? Look at it closely. It is from the Carolinas and are one of many Carolina Bays. But what is most interesting is not just the presence of what is most likely cometary impact, but the fact that this has occured more than onece. If you will note, there are older depressions that are mostly obscured over time, and also later ones that are posited on top of the older ones. This shows up in the Carolina lowlands because the land is flat, moist, and does not erase as quickly as the Piedmont. Datings of one of these strikes are atound 100,000 years BP.

Just as you have spent a great deal of time on Younger Dryas, so too I have spent much time puzzling over impactors and the earth's slowl yielding of it's constant bombardment from space.
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#24
Let's do something with scientific method.

So we have all these facts, black mats, carolina bays etc etc. That's step one.

Step two, we make a hypothesis: It's all caused by an hypothetical extraterrestrial event.

Step three: now we have to make predictions which are consistent with the hypothesis. So we need to proof for instance the exact age of all those bays and they should have the same age, 12,900 calendar years. If so then you're getting the Nobel price, but if we can't find out, things remain mere speculation.

Did this extra terrestrial event also kill the mega fauna, the answer is no for the reasons I gave. Did it cause the Younger dryas cold? Again the answer is no, albeit a bit less firm. Does that disprove the event? not at all, it's just that we limit it's consequences.
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#25
track_snake Wrote:Well, I know that some are worried by global warming. Warming is good for some but bad for others.

But I agree with you about the danger of comets. I thought we had a reasonably good warning system that would give us some time to prepare.Even if they move fast there are many astronomers keeping a watch on the sky.

/track_snake
Do you not realize that John's job is to distract by means of bogus threats from the real dangers of global warming caused by humans? File all of John's statements and prostitute sience in this thread as "utter rubbish."
There was not a single big impact since the dawn of Man and not for millions of years prior. An asteroid of 10km across is a smaller in mass than the CO2 produced by humans each single year. So, why should it do more damage?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#26
quadrat Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:Well, I know that some are worried by global warming. Warming is good for some but bad for others.

But I agree with you about the danger of comets. I thought we had a reasonably good warning system that would give us some time to prepare.Even if they move fast there are many astronomers keeping a watch on the sky.

/track_snake
Do you not realize that John's job is to distract by means of bogus threats from the real dangers of global warming caused by humans? File all of John's statements and prostitute sience in this thread as "utter rubbish."
There was not a single big impact since the dawn of Man and not for millions of years prior. An asteroid of 10km across is a smaller in mass than the CO2 produced by humans each single year. So, why should it do more damage?
---------------------------
As you might know, I am neutral in reference to AGW.

But it is not easy to be neutral versus comets...

/track_snake
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#27
andre Wrote:Then there are the massive unusual oceanic changes all over the place which may have been more cause of climate changes than effect.

Changes caused by what Andre?

Andre Wrote:Finally did the event cause mass extinctions? Also a bit of a problem, since the big dying out started some 17,000 years ago and may have lasted until only 3000 years ago, with the last Mastodon somewhere in the US of A. There may have been a peak extinction moment at the onset of the Younger Dryas, eradicating both the Clovis and the Woolly mammoth. But this was also the start of the thriving of the same species in North Siberia. So the event, if correct, may or may not have caused one or two species to die out but could not have played more than a marginal role in the whole late pleistocene extinction event.

I'm afraid that the extraterrestrial thing is not the neat end solution to all the fuzz going on at the end of the Pleistocene.

First off, we are not talking about Europe or Asia, but North America, following the end of the Pleistocene. The Bering landbridge would have been cut off by then. As an Anthropologist, I don't know of any depletion of fauna before the end of the last ice age. This is new to me.

And granted, there are some examples of mammoths living much later, but they were isolated on islands and left alone. For the entire population of Dire Wolf, Short Faced Bear, Smilidon, and other megafauna to disappear is rather difficult to just put down to time factor.

As for the impactor being the cause of Younger Dryas, that would still be an open question. I still believe it was caused by a continual buildup of glacial melt in the north central NA continent, and finally a sudden breakup of the ice dam, allowing huge amounts of fresh water to rush up the St Lawrence Freeway, and out into the north atlantic. If the debris from an air burst covered the ice shelf with dark matter, I don't know.

But one thing is very clear. We are constantly being bombarded by celestial objects, and it is much more than current scientists have believed. Much more.

Here, what would cause these huge Chevrons?

[Image: wave.600.jpg]

You can read all about it right here, from 2006. And this one, from Madagascar appears to have been from around 2800-3000BC. Perhaps this is where many of the Flood Myths come from, along with the flooding of the Black Sea shortly before.

Quote:Chevron Structures Evidence of Frequent Meteor Impacts

Screenshot of chevron structures located at the southern tip of Madagascar from Google Maps. Click the image for detail.

Members of the Holocene Impact Working Group have identified numerous shoreline structures that they believe are evidence of recent marine impact events. These structures that they refer to as "chevrons" are believed to be piles of sediment that have been swept into chevron-shaped ridges by the tsunami-size waves produced from these impacts. The chevrons contain sediments, deep ocean microfossils and bits of what appear to be impact debris that are combined without regard to the normal superposition sequence.

The working group has identified numerous chevron locations - so many that it causes them to question just how often the Earth is subject to massive impact events. In addition, the size of some chevrons are enormous. Some are hundreds of feet in height and covering hundreds of acres each - large enough that they would require a tsunami over 100 feet high to construct them. These chevron structures are reported at numerous locations in Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, India, Southern Africa, Madagascar, Hawaii, Portugal, Algeria, United Kingdom, Denmark, Brazil, Mexico, California, Washington, Oregon and other locations.

[Image: madagascar-chevrons-small.jpg]
Landsat image of the Fenambosy Chevrons in Madagascar by USGS. The open side of these chevrons point directly at a crater at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. They suggest a gigantic meteor impact occurred about 4800 years ago. Higher resolution image.

'Band of misfits' theory: Meteors are not that rare

Let me give you an example of what is happening with regards to earth strikes. During the Cold War, Strategic Air Command, set up an elaborate network of early warning radar that eventually covered the entire globe, and also happened to keep track of all unusual events in the atmosphere, as a result of the Soviet threat. During this time there were hundreds, perhaps thousands of unexplained explosions, and other events that keep the military on alert.

In one of these, I remember reading in either Time/Newsweek, in the late 70's about a huge atmospheric detonation south of the Cape of Africa. It was quite large, and at the time, there was considerable pressure being brought on the South African Afrikaners to change their policies. They were also suspected of trying to develop an atomic bomb. And with that explosion, it was determined, by the US, that SA had tested it's nuclear bomb. At the time, they denied it, and insiders poo-pooed the denial.

Well, now we know that it was a "visitor" from outer space. How many more are coming in and not exploding over a large metropolitan area? And what makes you think it won't tomorrow?

Quote:Scientists in the working group say the evidence for such impacts during the last 10,000 years, known as the Holocene epoch, is strong enough to overturn current estimates of how often the Earth suffers a violent impact on the order of a 10-megaton explosion. Instead of once in 500,000 to one million years, as astronomers now calculate, catastrophic impacts could happen every 1,000 years.
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#28
Another interesting story. Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood? How much was Not the result of vistors from "you know where"?
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#29
John L Wrote:Another interesting story. Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood? How much was Not the result of vistors from "you know where"?
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Well...

The theory is interesting but as is mentioned in the article it would be good if some evidence of the impact (like melted glass) is found in marine sediments at the site of the impact off the coast of Madagascar.

/track_snake
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#30
Some people may think that I am overstating the issue of Impactors. But let's consider this latest article about the Chesapeak Bay impact.

Quote:Study: Chesapeake Bay Asteroid Impact Didn't Kill Everything

Friday , June 27, 2008


The true impact of an asteroid or comet crashing near the Chesapeake Bay 35 million years ago has been examined in detail for the first time. The analysis reveals the resilience of life in the aftermath of disaster.

The impact crater, which is buried under 400 to 1,200 feet (120 to 365 meters) of sand, silt and clay, spans twice the length of Manhattan.

The sprawling depression helped create what would eventually become Chesapeake Bay. About 10,000 years ago, ice sheets began to melt and once-dry river valleys filled with water.

The rivers of the Chesapeake region converged directly over the buried crater, according to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).

Gregory Gohn of the USGS and his colleagues analyzed samples from two deep holes drilled into the crater near its center.

"I think what we wanted to do is drill into the central part of the crater and get as long of a section as we could and understand the processes that put them in the order we found them," Gohn told SPACE.com.

Within seconds of the object's touchdown, rocks were flung high into the air.

The force of the impact carved a colossal cavity and caused temperatures to skyrocket, turning brittle rocks into taffy.

Then material along the cavity's rim surged downhill into the bowl-shaped depression like an avalanche.

The extreme heat, the researchers say, killed off most life. However, they found abundant microbes living today in the deepest parts of the crater.

Some of the ancient bacteria would have survived the impact, the researchers say, because their little hideouts didn't feel the brunt of the heat.

The rest of the abundant and newly discovered microbial life is thought to have recolonized the zapped area possibly tens of thousands of years after the impact when temperatures dropped to habitable levels.

"The impact broke up and disaggregated all of these blocks of rock," said researcher Mary Voytek, a microbiologist at the USGS, "and that actually creates space for [the microbes] to colonize and it also creates new routes for water and material to move though, which is always good for bugs."

So a catastrophic event like this could actually be a boon to microbes, at least in the long run, Voytek said.

The impact breaks up compacted rock to create nooks and crannies for bacteria to reside in, and it also brings in a fresh supply of food.

"It's somewhat analogous to whale falls," when a whale carcass eventually settles on the sea floor, Voytek said. "All of a sudden it's a restaurant for these bugs."

Understanding the biological effects of this asteroid impact will shed light on the potential for life deep underground during Earth's Archaean period, 3.8 billion to 2.5 billion years ago, when impacts were more frequent than today.

The results also have implications for predicting life in the deep biosphere on Mars.

"If we're going to find life [on Mars], everyone agrees a good place to look is in the subsurface," Voytek said.

The project, which is detailed in the June 27 issue of the journal Science, was funded by the USGS, NASA, the National Science Foundation, the Austrian Science Foundation and DOSECC Inc.

[size=14]Of course it doesn't kill everything. it never does. However, we are in danger,......eventually. But you can bet the farm, that global warming is NOTHING compared with what will happen if some comet or asteroid explodes over, or rams into, some large urban area, like London, Cairo, or Seattle. The destruction will be unimagionable. But kill everybody?

As Joseph Stalin once stated, " A single death is a tragedy. But a million deaths is a statistic."

I don't know why people keep calling these things asteroids, when most of them are comets. The media does this because they are just plain ingoranuses, and the scientific community seems to think you are not capable of knowing the difference.

The reason why I say this is because it has been fairly well put out that there is something causing the Ort Cloud to be disturbed, on a regular basis, somewhere around ever 30 million years. either the solar system crossing the galactic plane, or the presence of a companion brown dwarf, that we have not found yet, is disrupting the comets out there, and causing larg numbers of them to be drawn into the solar center.

If you compare the date, the time of this Impactor is 35 million years ago, just 30 million years after the dinosaur killer 65 million years ago. This is not just coincidence.

But the point is that we are constantly being bombarded by debris from space: some of it on a regular basis, and much of it on a random basis. But regardless, we are constantly in the crosshairs of celestial objects, and they will not stop, until we creat a means of stopping all this.

And people are worried about global warming?
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#31
People are worried of global warming since they see it is something happening in the near future that have consequences in their or their childrens lifetime.

As for celestial objects, they might think that we have a good warning system and that no comet is expected to hit in the near future, say up to 50 years from now.

/track_snake
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#32
track_snake Wrote:People are worried of global warming since they see it is something happening in the near future that have consequences in their or their childrens lifetime.

No.

They are worried about global warming because fear-mongers and non-neutral people like yourself are trying to scare them and give their children nightmares.

We have met the "boogeyman", and he is Al Gore!
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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#33
JohnWho Wrote:We have met the "boogeyman", and he is Al Gore!

Since we are on the subject of Homer Simpson/James Hansen, I wonder if the producers of the Simpsons, could create another character, like the owner of the nuclear plant. You know, that scheming, older, dispicable looking character, and transform him into an Algore figure, only have him play the part of the Evil Doomsayer type. This could add more life to the series, I would think. Wink1
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#34
JohnWho Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:People are worried of global warming since they see it is something happening in the near future that have consequences in their or their childrens lifetime.

No.

They are worried about global warming because fear-mongers and non-neutral people like yourself are trying to scare them and give their children nightmares.

We have met the "boogeyman", and he is Al Gore!
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Well...

Maybe John L. could recruit Al Gore to spread some fear about celestial objects...

/track_snake
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#35
For your knowledge, today is the 100th aniversary of the Tunguska event, Fire in the sky: Tunguska at 100
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#36
John L Wrote:For your knowledge, today is the 100th aniversary of the Tunguska event, Fire in the sky: Tunguska at 100
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Well...

I am surprised that there is still no full answer on the cause of the Tunguska Event...

/track_snake
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#37
track_snake Wrote:Well...

I am surprised that there is still no full answer on the cause of the Tunguska Event...

/track_snake

I'm not quite certain what you mean there T_S. According to the Beeb, the cause has already been settled. As for a "full answer" of the cause, we may never know, unless we can invent time travel.

I think you should be a little more explicit here.
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#38
John L Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:Well...

I am surprised that there is still no full answer on the cause of the Tunguska Event...

/track_snake

I'm not quite certain what you mean there T_S. According to the Beeb, the cause has already been settled. As for a "full answer" of the cause, we may never know, unless we can invent time travel.

I think you should be a little more explicit here.
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What I say is that there is no 'full answer'.

There are still different theories (like the Italians of a very low-density asteroid that completely disintegrated, or a similar saying that most blew up in the atmosphere but a probable crater is found about further away that could be the 'core' of the asteroid) and the theory of a black hole.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20080630/s...yearslater

/track_snake
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#39
That's just icing on the cake T_S. What is becoming startling apparant is that we are being bombarded far more regularly than was believed. The idea that we were being hit only about once every thousand years, by a medium size comet/astroid is totally incorrect. It is now less than one hundred years, AND constantly hit by objects of lesser size.

It's staggering in proportions, and although the earth's surface is mostly ocean and underpopulated areas, the odds are that the next one could be over a metropolitan area. When that occurs, you can forget about all this global warming hype. Nobody will give a Tinker's Damn about AGW, when they see the results of some atmospheric explosion over Quebec, or Hamberg, or........................................





Oh, I almost forgot: The sun is blank--no sunspots. Credit: SOHO/MDI. Sunspot Cycle 24, where fore art thou? Wink1

Remember, the longer Sunspot Cycle 23 hangs around, the greater the chances of a more tranquil, and shorter, Cycle 24 is going to be.

Go and look at the 2000-2020 portion of the scale, and you can see what the next cycle will most likely be. And note how tiny it is, and is different , but mostly alike to the other two above, and before, it. Enjoy the heat whilst you can.

[Image: 2208858790037686397S600x600Q85.jpg]
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#40
Who Killed the Woolly Mammoth? | Explorer
gives some more perspective to the 13,000 year old North American event, and the mass extinction of NA fauna.

And here is more evidence, just this month, about the case.  Unfortunately, they still have trouble getting facts straight, in understanding the difference between asteroids and comets.  Some of these science journalists are just plain retarded.

And

North American Comet Catastrophe 10,900 BC Part 1
on the topic.
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