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GDP and Real Growth--Growth of the Rich that is!
#1
Does GDP elucidate how well the economy is going? I do not think so! Productivity is up, but what about workers' paychecks?

And one must not underestimate the earnings of CEOS; they make 364 times more than workers.

This should make for quite an interesting topic for Labor Day, don't you think?
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#2
Re: "large company CEO's make 364 times the average workers salary":
Quote:That gap is down from 411 times in 2005 and well-below the record high of 525 times recorded in 2000.
This would mean that the Bush administration has made substantial progress on this inequity. I presume you will be voting Republican next time around.

What do you think the ratio of salaries (large company CEO's to workers) should be?

Do you think that "undocumented workers" have had a deleterious effect on worker salaries?
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#3
jt Wrote:What do you think the ratio of salaries (large company CEO's to workers) should be?

Well I do know that it shouldn't be 364 times more than the average American worker. What about you?

Do you believe in Reagan's classic school philosophy on economics---you know the one, don't you: the trickle down theory

I wouldn't even call this--making 364 times more than the average worker--trickling down, would you? I would call it tightening the taps so hard that it would take a plumber's wrench--and perhaps a couple of very strong individuals--to loosen it in order to use the tap! :roll: :lol:
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#4
I would like to hear your answers to my questions.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#5
Not to mention perks, such as health care, 401Ks, and other mathing funds, which don't get put into the mix. Of course the Grizz is into the Egalitarian Mantra.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#6
jt Wrote:This would mean that the Bush administration has made substantial progress on this inequity. I presume you will be voting Republican next time around.
No not really. It has been going up and down with a Republican President and GOP Congress like a roller coaster. This all has to do with how much $$ consumers can spend. Example: Traveling was down this Labor Day--I wonder why? Maybe the economy isn't as strong as Dubya has it out to be? Plenty of gas, but people just do not wish to spend the money. I wonder why?

jt Wrote:Do you think that "undocumented workers" have had a deleterious effect on worker salaries?
Yes. I do so wish that those CEOS would quit usin... mean abusing those poor people don't you? But seriously. You don't believe that added a significant amount to the equation, do you?
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#7
John L Wrote:Not to mention perks, such as health care, 401Ks, and other mathing funds, which don't get put into the mix.
Yes. I do so wish the American worker didn't have to pay for those CEOS' health care too, don't you? 8)
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#8
Quote:That gap is down from 411 times in 2005 and well-below the record high of 525 times recorded in 2000.
jt,
didn't you read this part?
Quote:But the comparison isn't exactly apples-to-apples, in part because IPS and UFE changed how they measured CEO options pay this year.
looks like the statistics have been falsified, and after the tax-cuts for the rich since 2000, the purchasing power of their after-tax incomes might well be greater than 525:1. Bet on it. :lol:
The article clearly states that inspite the strong growth, incomes on the low and middle end of the sacle have stagnated. That's the majority of people, who create the majority of wealth. It's not trickling down, so simple. Hope your personal income has not stagnated, would be too odd to defend a system that doesn't benefit you.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#9
quadrat Wrote:Hope your personal income has not stagnated, would be too odd to defend a system that doesn't benefit you.
I would suspect that this could be just one reason why they do support such a system. 8) :lol:
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#10
quadrat Wrote:Hope your personal income has not stagnated, would be too odd to defend a system that doesn't benefit you.

I'm satisfied with my income and the benefits the US and my employer have to offer me. I do not suffer from class envy. Can you say the same?

Statistics like the ones in the article are always bogus. As John mentioned, they do not tally up total compensation to the worker, and "benefits" have grown considerably recently, while take home pay may have not gone up so much. Here is an exercise for you. Add up the total compensation of all those high paying CEO's. Divide that by the total number of employees in the companies they run. This would be the amount that each employee would get if the CEO were paid nothing. I wonder what it would be? That is, how much are the employees getting ripped off? You seem to like making such calculations, so go at it.

Grizzly, thanks for the answer about the illegals. But you still haven't told me what the proper ratio between employee and CEO at a large company should be.

I do have to admit that I don't like to see CEO's et al skimming off the company. But I also don't like the greed of people who want something for nothing at the lower end.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#11
jt,
525:1. Don't you understand the horror of such figures? Imagine a larger middle sized company with one CEO, say 100 in administration, sales, accounting and such, and 525 working on the machines that make whatever they produce. The one CEO makes as much money as the Fivehundredtwentyfive.
It's even not completely true. Had the life of lower upper class for some time, I know the expensive parties, banquets, hotels, travels, prostitutes that are officially business activities, but in fact part of their life style.
Doubt it that the Fivehundredtwentyfivefold income of the CEO benefits the economy as much as if given to the workers. This horror is harming us all.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#12
Quadrat: the article discusses LARGE companies, not small or medium sized ones. For example, GE employs 316000 people. Walmart employs 1.8M people. Exxon employs 128000 people. You still should do some research and compute how much employee would get if the CEO's compensation were divided among all the employees. Why is it that you feel "horror" anyway?
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#13
jt,
where would I start? With the simple fact that the CEO is under no circumstances 525 times more worth than a worker? Rather less. Or that I as a consumer am interested to save money but have to pay for their life in luxury? Rage about the abuse of power they can buy with so much money, and live outside the law? Rage about the crimes they commit and filthy right-wing politics and spreading of lies they finance? Rage about that reckless growth that lowers my life quality, with noise and pollution, by forcing all kinds of stress upon you? Jesus, could make an endless long list from the details to the big picture.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#14
You could start by specifying exactly how much the CEO "should" make, as a multiple of the average (or lowest paid) employee. This would give me some perspective on your theory of "value".
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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