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Honor Killing: Horror Under The Head Scarf
#1
Honor killings in Europe are becoming a real epidemic. However in Germany, it is assuming outrageous proportions.

Quote:Horror Under The Head Scarf

By Stephen Brown
FrontPageMagazine.com | June 26, 2007

She struggled desperately to cling to the fifth-floor balcony railing her Turkish father had just thrown her over, a precious 16-year-old life hanging, literally, in the balance. Observing the helpless young female form dangling high in the air, horrified onlookers could not believe what happened next. An unidentified member of the woman’s family, ignoring the terrified eyes appealing upwards for help, pitilessly loosened the defenseless teenager’s hands, causing her to plunge to what was supposed to be her death.

However, this young victim of an attempted honor murder in the German city of Wuppertal unexpectedly lived, having her fall broken by a garage roof. And last month a German court sentenced her bestial father to four and a half years in prison, the judge remarking that it borders on a miracle his daughter is still alive. But the young woman’s horrific ordeal is not yet over, as she still fears revenge attacks from angry relatives.

And what was the crime, for which this young woman earned such a savage death sentence from her family? Already a victim of a forced marriage, the unidentified victim was rebelling against her father and the archaic, patriarchal traditions of his Muslim-Turkish culture. Of Germany’s 3.2 million Muslims, about 2.7 million are of Turkish origin.

Like most normal teenage girls in Germany, this young Turkish woman wanted to choose the way she lived her life, which often includes the freedom to choose her own boyfriends and husband. But in order to satisfy this freedom drive that most civilized people take for granted, many such young Muslim females must cut off all connection with their families, live an underground existence not unlike in an American witness protection program, and even risk their lives to honor killings at the hands of vengeful relatives and clan members.

Honor murder is not an insignificant problem in Germany. The Federal Crime Office (Germany’s FBI) registered 48 honor homicides between 1996 and 2006 with a further 22 people surviving attempted honor killings. The youngest victim was a 14-year-old, married Muslim girl. And like her, most of the victims were young, Muslim women, while a few were men.

An additional two honor killings were barely averted only last March in Munich when another Turkish man, living in Germany for 32 years, tried to kill his 18-year-old daughter and her German boyfriend on a busy open street. The father had disapproved of the daughter’s relationship, beaten her many times and had threatened to kill her. The young couple managed to escape the attack and contact the police.

The reasons for honor killings are varied. They range from the female victim living too western (re: independent) a lifestyle (a young Muslim woman was recently killed in England for this reason), to wanting a divorce, to having left the family home to escape domestic violence or an abusive forced marriage. Some also flee to avoid a forced marriage in the offing.

“Every woman who flees the home is the object of an honor murder,” noted one observer.

The problem of domestic violence in Muslim homes is so bad that, according to one German newspaper, thirty per cent of the occupants in women’s shelters in German cities are Muslim. And even there, these unfortunate women are not safe. Husbands and other male clan members, who can number up to 300, often set up round the clock surveillance of the shelter, in which the woman has sought refuge.

Despite the fact multiculturalism was supposed to end racism (another naïve, leftist, social engineering illusion), Muslim women have also been killed for racist reasons, namely, for dating or becoming engaged to German men. Many Muslims in Germany despise the culture of the country they live in. They believe Germans are impure infidels who eat pork and drink alcohol, and hold the opinion a female family member dirties both her religion and her family’s honor by contact with them.

One young Muslim woman, who fled a planned forced marriage and is now living what the police term a ‘submarine existence’ (she is in hiding), said her father told her when she was a child never to play with German girls because they were whores and that he would kill her if he ever caught her playing with boys. This ‘man of honor’, she says, has now threatened to pour gasoline over her and burn her to death if he ever finds her.

But whatever the reason for her murder, the woman’s family believes her behavior has sullied its honor in the eyes of its ethnic-religious community and only her death will restore it.

As for the Muslim men, many believe they have a religious-based right to control women, especially their chastity, which is of the highest importance in their culture. These men do not want to be known as a “Namussuz Adam” (Turkish for “honorless man”) that a female family member’s behavior, especially her sexual behavior, could cause. (Hence the expression among them, ‘a man’s honor lies between a woman’s legs’.)

Even in Germany, bloody bed sheets are shown to relatives and guests after wedding nights to prove the bride’s virginity, after which the sheets are kissed and money is thrown on them. As a result, even a rumor that a woman may have had contact with a man could be her death warrant.

The fact some of these men may have disgraced their families with their own less than admirable behavior at some point in time never enters their heads. When one young Muslim honor killer, who had murdered his sister, was asked whether he thought he had shamed his family with his previous criminal convictions and subsequent jail time replied: “I broke your law; she broke ours.”

Some Muslim women are also not blameless. Several are suspected of having helped plan the murders of their sisters and daughters. The sister of Hatun Surucu, whose horrific honor murder in Berlin by her family in 2005 awoke Germans to this social horror in their midst, even applied to adopt her sister’s five-year-old son shortly afterwards. Fortunately, her application was rejected. Surucu’s 18-year-old brother was the one chosen to kill her, shooting his sister at a bus stop.

It is also infuriating that honor murderers like Surucu’s brother are regarded as heroes by other Muslims and as martyrs when jailed. Many of them are also very young, since the family patriarchs realize that minors rarely receive the full ten year sentence for manslaughter and are often released early. In Berlin’s juvenile detention facility in 2005, there were six minors serving time for honor killings.

But honor murders have now forced Germans to realize that it isn’t just a parallel society that has arisen in their midst since the 1960s, but rather an anti-civilization where humanistic European values, the inheritance of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, are no longer valid. This barbaric ‘new world’ is also repealing their society’s laws. Moreover, in this anti-civilization, there is no concept of individuality, a fundamental European precept. A person, especially a woman, cannot have an identity outside the religion, culture and clan. In this respect, the anti-civilization growing in Europe like a cancer is totalitarian in nature. All of which does not bode well for a continent that has already paid too high a price for totalitarian ideologies.

One also cannot speak of integration. Multiculturalism is an obvious failure in Germany as in other European countries and, more than that, is now a threat to Progressive society and democracy with the barbarisms it has imported and tolerated. The father who threw his daughter off the balcony, for example, was a third generation Turkish-German. Like him, many other Muslims, even educated ones, do not want to integrate. Segregating themselves from the host culture, they live voluntarily in large ghettos in German cities where only their anti-civilization values and laws are in force. And since these ghettos cannot be broken up and many living there obviously do not fear German laws, the horror of honor murders is in Germany to stay.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#2
The apologist for Muslim ideals, says that honor killings are not part of Islam. If they are not, why do they keep occurring?
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#3
It's amazing that a 3rd generation Turk would have adapted so little to the cultural surroundings of his new country. And, Turkey is counted as a "moderate/secular" Muslim state. No wonder the EU's are so reluctant to let Turkey in. Then Turks would be free to emigrate where ever they liked.
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#4
Quote:Even in Germany, bloody bed sheets are shown to relatives and guests after wedding nights to prove the bride’s virginity, after which the sheets are kissed and money is thrown on them. As a result, even a rumor that a woman may have had contact with a man could be her death warrant.
This is exact depiction of what happens in the weddings of Gypsies in Russia. Never hear about it among Muslims, though.
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#5
Many people who immigrated to Germany are not ethnic Turks, also many Gypsies and Kurds who were formerly Turkish citizens are counted as Turks in Germany.
Honor killings in Turkey happens mostly in the South East Turkey where percentage of minorities are high. These custom predates Islam, it should be called "greed killing" instead if "honor killing", because the main reason for these killing are loss of "dowry" money" to the bride's family if their daughter does not full-fill the arrangement made between groom's and bride's families.
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#6
Thanks for the insights Kamil.
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#7
Kamil Wrote:Many people who immigrated to Germany are not ethnic Turks, also many Gypsies and Kurds who were formerly Turkish citizens are counted as Turks in Germany.
Honor killings in Turkey happens mostly in the South East Turkey where percentage of minorities are high. These custom predates Islam, it should be called "greed killing" instead if "honor killing", because the main reason for these killing are loss of "dowry" money" to the bride's family if their daughter does not full-fill the arrangement made between groom's and bride's families.

There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#8
John L Wrote:
Kamil Wrote:Many people who immigrated to Germany are not ethnic Turks, also many Gypsies and Kurds who were formerly Turkish citizens are counted as Turks in Germany.
Honor killings in Turkey happens mostly in the South East Turkey where percentage of minorities are high. These custom predates Islam, it should be called "greed killing" instead if "honor killing", because the main reason for these killing are loss of "dowry" money" to the bride's family if their daughter does not full-fill the arrangement made between groom's and bride's families.

There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.
---------------------------------------------------
That is a difficult solution. Turkey will never give up the Kurdish areas in the eastern part of the country. They will also never allow a 'free Kurdistan' be created in the Kurdish areas of Iraq.

/track_snake
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#9
John L Wrote:There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.

The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office.
After some Western Countries get some minorities elected as their Prime Ministers and Presidents, perhaps we could start comparing minority rights observed in their countries and Turkey.
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#10
track_snake Wrote:
John L Wrote:
Kamil Wrote:Many people who immigrated to Germany are not ethnic Turks, also many Gypsies and Kurds who were formerly Turkish citizens are counted as Turks in Germany.
Honor killings in Turkey happens mostly in the South East Turkey where percentage of minorities are high. These custom predates Islam, it should be called "greed killing" instead if "honor killing", because the main reason for these killing are loss of "dowry" money" to the bride's family if their daughter does not full-fill the arrangement made between groom's and bride's families.

There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.
---------------------------------------------------
That is a difficult solution. Turkey will never give up the Kurdish areas in the eastern part of the country. They will also never allow a 'free Kurdistan' be created in the Kurdish areas of Iraq.

/track_snake

whether or not they allow it is not what counts in the end. Reality may take their wants and desires away from them, but I hope not. If Turkey wishes to have less turmoil in the future, it would be best to just let them go their own way.

As for your second assertion, who cares what Turkey will allow. The Kurds WILL have their own homeland, come hell or high water. It is an unstoppable force, and we had better get used to it, especially Turkey. As I have stated over one hundred times, it is going to happen eventually. Get used to it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#11
John L Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:
John L Wrote:
Kamil Wrote:Many people who immigrated to Germany are not ethnic Turks, also many Gypsies and Kurds who were formerly Turkish citizens are counted as Turks in Germany.
Honor killings in Turkey happens mostly in the South East Turkey where percentage of minorities are high. These custom predates Islam, it should be called "greed killing" instead if "honor killing", because the main reason for these killing are loss of "dowry" money" to the bride's family if their daughter does not full-fill the arrangement made between groom's and bride's families.

There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.
---------------------------------------------------
That is a difficult solution. Turkey will never give up the Kurdish areas in the eastern part of the country. They will also never allow a 'free Kurdistan' be created in the Kurdish areas of Iraq.

/track_snake

whether or not they allow it is not what counts in the end. Reality may take their wants and desires away from them, but I hope not. If Turkey wishes to have less turmoil in the future, it would be best to just let them go their own way.

As for your second assertion, who cares what Turkey will allow. The Kurds WILL have their own homeland, come hell or high water. It is an unstoppable force, and we had better get used to it, especially Turkey. As I have stated over one hundred times, it is going to happen eventually. Get used to it.
--------------------------
Well... I am not so sure.

Of course it would be a great thing for the Kurds to have that but Turkey won't accept that a Kurdish free state is created either on Turkish soil or on Iraqi soil.

/track_snake
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#12
Kamil Wrote:
John L Wrote:There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.

The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office.
After some Western Countries get some minorities elected as their Prime Ministers and Presidents, perhaps we could start comparing minority rights observed in their countries and Turkey.

Hey, that's fine. Then hold a Referendum and make it official. The same thing happened with the Saarland in 1956. After WWII, Saarland was turned over to France, with the provision that they would hold an election a decade later, to determine where the citizenry wished to be. Now remember that most of the Saarland was made up with French speaking citizens. Yet the election proved that they wanted to become part of Germany, and the rest is history.

NOTE: Saarland should have just voted for complete intependence, which would have been best for them.

My suggestion: hold a referendum, and then things will become official and you will immediately occupy the high ground. Does that not make sense?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#13
John L Wrote:
Kamil Wrote:
John L Wrote:There is a simple solution to this: just let the Kurds have their land back and they will no longer be Turks. Same thing with the other groups. To my thinking, it would be worth it just to have them off my back. Turkey would be stronger for it strategically.

Of course, you could just run them all out forcefully, but that would create more problems than it would solve.

The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office.
After some Western Countries get some minorities elected as their Prime Ministers and Presidents, perhaps we could start comparing minority rights observed in their countries and Turkey.

Hey, that's fine. Then hold a Referendum and make it official. The same thing happened with the Saarland in 1956. After WWII, Saarland was turned over to France, with the provision that they would hold an election a decade later, to determine where the citizenry wished to be. Now remember that most of the Saarland was made up with French speaking citizens. Yet the election proved that they wanted to become part of Germany, and the rest is history.

NOTE: Saarland should have just voted for complete intependence, which would have been best for them.

My suggestion: hold a referendum, and then things will become official and you will immediately occupy the high ground. Does that not make sense?

The only problem with holding referendum on this issue is that Turks even in the highest Kurdish populated areas make up over 50% of the population.
Most of the Turks have been living in these areas longer or as long as the Kurds.
Another way to judge what Kurds want is to see for what kind of parties they vote for. The Kurdish parties who advocate some kind of separation from Turkey get less than 5% of the Kurdish votes.
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#14
WAIT! Kamil, did you not state the following: "The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office. If you are being honest, then what do you have to worry about?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#15
John L Wrote:WAIT! Kamil, did you not state the following: "The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office. If you are being honest, then what do you have to worry about?
I'm not against referendum at all, but it would be waste of time when we know that all Turks in these areas who make up about 60% of the population and majority of Kurds will vote against separation from Turkey.

The only Kurdish group who is hinting separation from Turkey are PKK followers and they have very little support from other Kurds living in Turkey.
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#16
Kamil Wrote:
John L Wrote:WAIT! Kamil, did you not state the following: "The only problem with your solution is that 90% of Kurds in Turkey don't want seperation from Turkey. During the 80 years history of Turkish Republic, Kurds already had two Prime Ministers, one President and countless parlimentarians in office. If you are being honest, then what do you have to worry about?
I'm not against referendum at all, but it would be waste of time when we know that all Turks in these areas who make up about 60% of the population and majority of Kurds will vote against separation from Turkey.

The only Kurdish group who is hinting separation from Turkey are PKK followers and they have very little support from other Kurds living in Turkey.

I contend that it is "NOT A WASTE OF TIME". Rather is it an argument stopper, that could possibly save many lives and legitimize Turkey's right to the territory.

Are you stating that the citizenry have no right to make their own decisions on such an important issue? Or are you worried that they may vote the other way to what you state? Remember, I am not in favour of either outcome, but only the right of the citizens to to decide their own destiny.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#17
John, it seems like you are not understanding what I'm saying.

In the so called Kurdish areas of East Turkey, Kurds make up less than 50% of the population.
It would be like holding a referendum in Oregon to ask people if they want to join Mexico. When Mexicans are way less than half of the Oregon's population it makes no sense to hold just a referendum.

However, if such a referendum will satisfy some EU Nation about Kurdish situation in Turkey, I will strongly support holding such a referendum if they pay the cost of holding such a silly referendum. S2
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#18
Kamil Wrote:John, it seems like you are not understanding what I'm saying.

In the so called Kurdish areas of East Turkey, Kurds make up less than 50% of the population.
It would be like holding a referendum in Oregon to ask people if they want to join Mexico. When Mexicans are way less than half of the Oregon's population it makes no sense to hold just a referendum.

However, if such a referendum will satisfy some EU Nation about Kurdish situation in Turkey, I will strongly support holding such a referendum if they pay the cost of holding such a silly referendum. S2

Kamil, your analogy makes no logical sense. Oregon lies far north from Mexico and is not even connected to it. If New mexico had been a bone of contention due to the US taking it this last century, then the issue would be salient. But is is not. My use of the Saarland is the best one to use. And note the configuration of ethnic speaking citizens.

And yes, I did understand you.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#19
Yes, as far as the location goes, New Mexico will be better comparison, but I suspect that in New Mexico, Mexicans might be higher than 50% of the population and there could be a slim chance that they might vote to join Mexico.
However, as far as percentage of populations goes, Oregon would be a closer comparison for holding such a referendum in the so called Kurdish Areas of Turkey since percentage of Turks in the area is much higher than Kurds.

A referendum in the Hatay region of Turkey (formerly Syria)was held in the early 1930s by the British. People voted to join Turkey, and they did.
However, it did not settle the desires of Syrians to annex Hatay to Syria.
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#20
Four honor killings per year in a population of 2.7 million isn't exactly many, and because they are usually punished as manslaughter, it could be a part of them were masqueraded first degree murders. There are way less crimes amongst Turkish people in Germany, than amongst Americans in America. Hypocrites capitalize on such stuff, don't they, John?

I suggest, that you prior to quoting some sensationally falsified right-wing filth of an American source, you check and double check with a source from the country where it happened. German papers also reported the girl was drug addicted, dissappeared frequently over night, and threatened the family habitually with her suicide. I guess atheist parents or followers of other religions would be upset too. She was 16. The German paper did not mention she had been married against her will, not possible in Germany under the age of 18, anyway. (Why wouldn't she live with her husband?) There were no horrified onlookers, and no "horror under the head scarf" because she didn't wear one. Neither the court nor the paper mention the word Islam or draw the conclusion, the crime was religiously motivated.
The verdict isn't yet legally binding.
Anything American right-wing propaganda doesn't turn to lies? It's disgusting.

http://www.wz-newsline.de/sro.php?redid=157363
http://www.wz-newsline.de/sro.php?redid=159977

Besides, a German boy of 17 has been jailed in Turkey eight weeks ago for dating a 13 year old British girl. He claims she told him to be 15. A serious political battle is going on between Turkey and Germany, the later threatening to reject Turkey's efforts to join the EU.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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