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Fouad Ajami's Latest on Iraq
#1
http//opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009926
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#2
Rather optimistic, lets hope it is valid. Especially the part about the waning of Sadr's power. Encouraging is the symptom of Maliki's strengthening spine. I had long wondered what was holding the new government back from wielding its power against the disruptive elements of Iraq.
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#3
Jt,

I have read a couple of Fouad's works,he's a secular oriented Shiite(I think,he may now be a Christian though as his wife and kids are). He's also an admirer of America and Americans.

I tend to trust his judgement.

Even if he is accurate,it is a long war,not just in Iraq and we Americans cannot fail anywhere remotely as important as Iraq. Let's hope by the time we've muddled through in 2008 the Iraqi security and political establishments can handle the bad guys.

I doubt they will be,it probably will take another 10 year committment.

The Sadr thing has been part of their peculiar makeup. During the wild eyed Sunni mass murdering of Shia,the Mahdi Army was about all the Shia had,the IA was ridiculous and we can't figure out who's who quick enough.

It seems Fouad believes they are shedding Moqtada as they are gaining some confidence slowly in their government.

I want to make a point here. The UK has been our best ally since 9-11,without a doubt. However,they are rapidly bugging out of Iraq.

We Americans who have brains(I think most don't)need to recall the camraderie of the British with us in the next British problem so we can help them with say 250 dead and then bug out on them real quick.
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#4
jt Wrote:Rather optimistic, lets hope it is valid. Especially the part about the waning of Sadr's power.

Stratfor wrote a couple of days ago about a crisis in the Sadrist movement.

Not 100% sure this is good news -- Sadr is not the only pro-Iranian Shia player, and may not be the worst one even.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#5
MV,

All the bad guys are out there,the government can be stronger than all if it doesn't represent the bad guys interests.

That's the key to me. Are the majority of Shiites desirous of a Sadr type leader or more like Maliki in character?

Time alone tells. If the latter,they can have that leadership hopefully.
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#6
... and what exactly is good about this Maliki guy?

Do we actually know that he is not on the Iranian payroll?
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#7
mv Wrote:... and what exactly is good about this Maliki guy?

Do we actually know that he is not on the Iranian payroll?
-----------------------------
Maliki is probably not on the Iranian payroll.

But there are enough of other Iraqi politicians who are on the Iranian payroll. Only Shiite politicians of course.

That is the reason why I believe the US should support the Sunnis more in Iraq and drop the policy of not letting former Baath party members have any say.

/track_snake
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#8
Excellent article, Palladin. Thank you for bringing it here...I had missed it.

...Lots of complications there in Iraq, for sure, and I think "cautious optimism" is the right mindset.

...You know I can't help drawing a comparison to the disenfranchised Arab Shiiets, and the Italians coming here to the US. It took them a long while to come to at least semi-trust the Irish cops on the corner. It also took the Irish cops on the corner a long while to gradually come to feel their job was to "protect and serve" the Italians in their communities.

I hope we can hang in there and give these folks a shot. We might just accidently create some serious good will and break some of the old iron bars that have plagued these people for a long time.
Bean
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#9
MV,

What would we know about any single Iraqi person? Nothing?

That's right. If they choose to be Iranians in effect,they will and no need to worry as we can't prevent that,just be prepared to kill them and the Iranians when we finally decide to grow up.
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#10
Palladin Wrote:MV,

What would we know about any single Iraqi person? Nothing?

Nothing, but we can look at their affiliations and make some guesses. Unlike Allawi, Maliki is religious and is connected to main Shia parties, which are ALL were/are sponsored by Iran.

So either he is too, or at the very least some people around him are.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


Reply
#11
MV,

Allawi was a CIA asset,you didn't believe the people of a foreign nation would accept his leadership did you? Of course we would like to have him in office,but we found out the Babylonians aren't quite as ignorant as Bush hoped they were when Allawi ran for office and had to face the voters.

I don't think we have the capability to decide their leadership. We proved that by our amateurish attempt to portray Chalabi as a "freedom fighter" come to rescue Iraq instead of America's choice for Iraq's governorship for starters.

Then we appointed Allawi. They said NO again. If Bush had the first decent thought or advisor,he at least would have tried to portray Allawi as NOT our choice by some public disagreements instead of appointing the man.

Face it,America's power is about 1/10 of what we wish it was,even though it is still more than any other single nation's.
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#12
actually...our power is 10 times GREATER than we wish it were, and we utilize 1/10th of the power we possess...

...on the other hand, (if you have one...even a prosthetic one), God himself has blessed us in our mercy and restraint.

Jesus would have been "righteous" to take a sword to the money changers in the temple. Instead he took only a whip.

...on golgotha, he could have spoken one word and wiped the earth clean of humans. He chose not to.

I'm sort'a proud of our restraint.

"Do justly...love mercy...walk humbly with your God."
nuff said
Ken
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#13
Ken,

I got all in trouble last time someone used Scriptural logic to debate me,but I'll play your game for 1 post only. **Don't worry John,I won't continue with this like I did with Thai on Biblical grounds.**

I will consider that you believe Scripture is God Breathed,if you don't,you shouldn't have used any of it's issues to debate me.

I think you might ought to read of the conquest of Israel by the Jews to see God's restraint when His people are under physical assault from a civilizational opponent and an opponent of God's(like Islam did and is today) instead of operating off the traditions of man relating to same issue. Thankfully,our generations prior to Vietnam were not influenced enough by your nonsense or we wouldn't have been born here.

We're discussing a civilizational war not a fishing dispute with Canada,not Christ's Work on The Cross,not His righteous decision to force moneychangers out of His temple instead of murdering them.

Read about Saul's restraint in that war situation and how proud God was of him(sarcasm alert,you are aware Saul ended up going to a witch for help then committing suicide?). Think God was ticked off at David for killing then cutting Goliath's head off and holding it up to his Philistine enemies? Think it an error Jesus is the "greater son of David's"?

Ever seen an Amalekite ,Ken? Think it was wrong that the Jews(led by David in person a man after God's Own Heart,imagine THAT!) ended up killing every one that ever existed,down to the last single human? It was a direct order from God and it served a Divine purpose as killing today's enemy of God's People does. They crossed the proverbial line in war.
These Muslims can worship their moon god all they want,but they crossed the line when they attacked us. Had the Amalekites been willing to leave well enough alone,they could have died a nice natural death,too. Reckon the children and women were really INNOCENTS in the Amalekite camp do ya,Ken?

I assume you never read Joshua before if you think it's wrong to massacre a civilizational enemy to the last person. Joshua just goes from one camp to the next massacring the enemies of God including everyone ,doesn't he? Bad person that Joshua.

Read about Gideon? He got the heads of his enemy kings handed to him on a platter,think that was wrong? What about Sampson,think he was a murderer when he killed all the occupants inside that building? Civilians,too!

Yet,not 1 human perished that God did not pick the time,place and manner of death also,go figure.
Or is The Bible just quaint to you? Are you like my other Bible thumper foe,you take a verse or 2 and condemn the rest? Sort of fit a theology around a handful of verses and chuck the rest to the wind?

Restraint in the face of evil that would murder us or remove our freedom is not virtue and your examples are not germane to THAT specific issue.

Read Romans Chapter 13,think that's teaching restraint for governmental agents,which includes soldiering and police?

Why do you suppose Jesus instructed His disciples to buy themselves swords when He was leaving earth? To carve turkeys maybe? To be restrained when their kid's were being murdered maybe?

Wish we had restraint in 1945 like we had in 1972 and today do ya? Think FDR is an evil man for authorizing the destruction of German and Nipponese cities along with all those civilians? For rounding up Nipponese here after the Magic Intercepts indicated Tokyo had an active spying ring here? I would think you have to. He showed no restraint,reckon God punished us for that? I think he did just right myself.

Think losing a strategic war after we're attacked by Islam is really what God wants for us? Exactly who has given you this information?

Ever read Daniel,Isaiah and The Revelation concerning the level of combat kills?

The restraint you pine for BIBLICALLY is reserved for non life threatening foes,not foes of harsh and dedicated evil who openly show us they are worse than Hitler's SS death's head boys and whose mothers parade around calling them servants of God for their murders.

Of course I consider this reply a waste of our time as all were to Fit to be thaied.



We'll see how this goes as your views are the majority views .

We'll just see how your wisdom works since our nation is physically challenged by 7th century Arabic warlordism(that would be all 1.2 billion Muslims) who have access to 21st century technology and 1.2 billion potential members who think murdering our kids is Divine and doing so while commiting suicide gets guarantees of an after life with lots of naked little girls(or boys based on the desires of the martyr) and knowing their religion does NOT have a guarantee of permanent salvation outside of MURDER! Never occured to you did it Mr. Accuser?

Restraint my as.s. This is NOT time for restraint,but you can counsel it and preach it till the cows come on home,you're a free man after all,no thanks to your subjective stupidity.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no virtue and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".
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#14
Well I sorta' liked Winston Churchill's words

"We shall show mercy, but ask for none."
Ken
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#15
Yea,Churchill sure showed Dresden<berlin,Colonge,etc. residents that mercy.

You show your restraint,I'll show our enemies my teeth and we can agree to disagree.
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#16
Nah, you won't show teeth. You delegate it to family and loved ones.

You know, back during the cold war...I feared our own home grown "Survivalists" more than I ever feared the Russians. The Russians could never defeat us. Our own homegrown survivalists could have cut out our heart though.

If the idiots among the muslims, and the idiots among our own "Survivalists" ever meet on the field of battle, then Mr. Bush failed.

God bless him for trying to keep the idiots apart....or we will have made the whole world into a "Bosnia".
That is what frustrates me about the Demos. They refuse to see the reality.
Bean
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#17
I see this logic as idiotic myself. Gates councils the Iraqi PM to hurry and and reconcile between the great Islamic schism or we'll leave.

Maliki can't do that anymore than Charles Martel could mediate between Islam and Christendom in peace and freedom,the world doesn't operate that way. Maybe in 1000 years they can achieve what Christendom largely has,to stop murdering each other over different opinions of our faith.

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6574987.stm

Here's another example of some more restraint that is costing both our soldier's lives and potential success in a civilizational war,we can't win this conflict like this

http//www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom2/Lists/Current%20Press%20Releases/DispForm.aspx?ID=4773&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecentcom%2Emil%2Fsites%2Fuscentcom2%2FLists%2FPress%2520Releases%2FCurrent%2520Releases%2Easpx

Here's is our first confrontation with this thieving religion,note the we win you lose mentality of the pasha. Pay us and we'll stop murdering,thieving and enslaving your people. More things change................

http//www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27956
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#18
Palladin Wrote:I see this logic as idiotic myself. Gates councils the Iraqi PM to hurry and and reconcile between the great Islamic schism or we'll leave.

Maliki can't do that anymore than Charles Martel could mediate between Islam and Christendom in peace and freedom,the world doesn't operate that way. Maybe in 1000 years they can achieve what Christendom largely has,to stop murdering each other over different opinions of our faith.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6574987.stm

Here's another example of some more restraint that is costing both our soldier's lives and potential success in a civilizational war,we can't win this conflict like this:

http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom2/...ses%2Easpx

Here's is our first confrontation with this thieving religion,note the we win you lose mentality of the pasha. Pay us and we'll stop murdering,thieving and enslaving your people. More things change................

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...p?ID=27956
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It is stupid to expect Maliki to do anything in that way as he can't succeed.

Better to give up the thought of a united Iraq and share it in three parts; a Kurdish, a Shia and a Sunni.

It was only Saddam who could keep those together.... Maliki can't succeed with that.

/track_snake
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#19
Track,

I think Maliki's intent is to share it 2 ways. Shia and Kurd. Sunnis have to go or die,choice is theirs and all indications are more and more are already deciding to live,outside Iraq.

However,it does appear we're beginning to recognize reality finally

http//westhawk.blogspot.com/2007/04/baghdads-gated-communities.html#links
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#20
Palladin Wrote:Track,

I think Maliki's intent is to share it 2 ways. Shia and Kurd. Sunnis have to go or die,choice is theirs and all indications are more and more are already deciding to live,outside Iraq.

However,it does appear we're beginning to recognize reality finally:

http://westhawk.blogspot.com/2007/04/bag...html#links
---------------------------------
Well. There are still many Sunni's in Sunni-dominated parts of Iraq. As for area, Sunni-dominated parts make up more than 50% of the area as western Iraq - where the biggest new oil reserves are located - is sparsely populated.

The newly constructed wall around a Sunni enclave in Bagdad is of course a sign that the longtime policy is to keep both Shia and Sunni in Bagdad; but we will see what will result of that. I think the few Sunnis in Bagdad ultimately will have to go or die as you say.

Even if some of the Sunnis are leaving Iraq now it is not so many in total numbers in relation to their share of the population. Those who are leaving are mostly from areas where Sunnis have been living side by side with Shia before, but the Shias are slowly taking over these areas and what remains for Sunnis are strictly Sunni areas in NW and W Iraq. But that is quite enough for a Sunni state that will comprise close to 50% of the present Iraqi land area and also hold the lion share of oil reserves.

/track_snake
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