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Top Chinese general warns US over attack
#21
Resolution 1441
Ok, let it be Iraq. But what about China? It's "a bit" different. And more, China is also a member of Security Council. And Russia. As i know they can put veto on this or that decision of GA. Am i right?
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#22
BH,What is really interesting is that Russia is not the country that has had the worst time throughout history. It is perhaps second worst. Only the Poles have had more invasions, land partition, mass murders, etc, etc, etc. But for some reason they are not as paranoid. I really don't understand why, as they deserve to be.

However, Russians have, next to the Poles, undergone more invasions, horror, etc, that one would readilly expect them to be supremely paranoid as a socirty: And they are!!

Actually, this helps to lend the Russians interesting and complex. Noone really knows how the average Russian will jump without understanding it's history. But once someone has them down historically, they are pretty easy to anticipate.

And another thing: no matter how many times Russia twists and turns, eventually, it winds up doing what is in it's best interests. It's just a matter of time: a lot of time! S6
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#23
Nemerov Wrote:Resolution 1441
Ok, let it be Iraq. But what about China? It's "a bit" different. And more, China is also a member of Security Council. And Russia. As i know they can put veto on this or that decision of GA. Am i right?

US will not have to use the GA to help defend Taiwan. If the PRC actually attempts to invade the island, the US has already stated numerous times that it will help defend it. But the US will not be the one to initiate hostilities here. It would not be in our best interests.

So, if there will be military action, expect the PRC to begin this, probably through harsh and inflamatory language to begin with. And somewhere, Russia will have to make a decision as to what to do here. And if Russia is smart she will either steer clear, or turn her back on the PRC.
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#24
Hmm i wonder then what for do we need the UNO if the USA do not need its permission to act against China? As i know those guys met in Frisco 60 years ago to make a strong organizations in order to support peace. Where is peace in the war between China and USA? Only the war between Russia and USA may be worse... :roll:
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#25
And finally.
I dont actually believe the USA strike China, even if PRC would strike Taiwan. The US didn't even strike Korea. I do remember how C. Rise was warning Korea that if they make nuclear ICBMs USA would perhaps kick them.
And China... it's China. How can US kick PRC if they couldn't kick Iran and Korea?
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#26
Quote:Only the Poles have had more invasions, land partition, mass murders, etc, etc, etc. But for some reason they are not as paranoid.
Are you sure? mv is not typical Pole. :?
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#27
Nemerov Wrote:Hmm i wonder then what for do we need the UNO if the USA do not need its permission to act against China? As i know those guys met in Frisco 60 years ago to make a strong organizations in order to support peace. Where is peace in the war between China and USA? Only the war between Russia and USA may be worse... :roll:

Nemerov, the UN is not the end all to everything. In fact, it is so thouroughly discredited in the US that it is the laughing stock among the majority of us. If PRC chooses to invade Taiwan, it will have to go through portions of the US Navy which will be stationed between the two sides. The US will be simply responding to shots in it's direction.

And as for war with Russia, why would we do such a thing? Russia and US are natural allies, next to the Brits. Only problem is that most of you Russians haven't figured it out yet. And believe me, if anyone of any worth would come to your aid, it is the US and nobody else.

Tell me, who can you think of to come to your aid if PRC decided to gobble up parts of Siberia? Hmm?
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All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#28
bh Wrote:
Quote:Only the Poles have had more invasions, land partition, mass murders, etc, etc, etc. But for some reason they are not as paranoid.
Are you sure? mv is not typical Pole. :?

Of course he is not a typical Pole. That's because he isn't one. Wink1
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#29
John L Wrote:Of course he is not a typical Pole. That's because he isn't one. Wink1
So, all my references on polish sites were useless? Hmm... S4
BTW, when i told about our rivals in paranoia, it was not about poles. There was standard political stamp 20-30 years ago - "hand of Moscow". IMHO it was symptom. S2
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#30
John L Wrote:Nemerov, the UN is not the end all to everything. In fact, it is so thouroughly discredited in the US that it is the laughing stock among the majority of us. If PRC chooses to invade Taiwan, it will have to go through portions of the US Navy which will be stationed between the two sides. The US will be simply responding to shots in it's direction.

And as for war with Russia, why would we do such a thing? Russia and US are natural allies, next to the Brits. Only problem is that most of you Russians haven't figured it out yet. And believe me, if anyone of any worth would come to your aid, it is the US and nobody else.

Tell me, who can you think of to come to your aid if PRC decided to gobble up parts of Siberia? Hmm?

I wonder when did USA became Russian NATURAL even ally?
Maybe when the CIA and other guys of that kind made 'Orange' revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine?
Maybe when some strange congressman told to the hole world that the USA want Russia to get out of G8?
Maybe when pribaltic states became the part of NATO?
Maybe when Rise began to warn Belorussia?
Maybe when Washington became very interested in "democracy building" in Russia? There are thousands jokes in Russia which begin with words "G. Bush asks Putin about how is it going with democracy in Russia..."
Maybe i should stop?

I am not saying that US is our cruel enemy. Anyway it is far not ally. How can you say that Russia is US ally while your "Commetee of assignations" (or smth like that) gives millions of dollars in order to make revoluitons in post-soviet countries?

This is very funny that you think russians dont understand that USA is their ally. Its like when a boy thinks "She loves me, yeah she really loves me, but she doesnt know that yet".

About China.
Why should China decide to gobble up some parts of Siberia? They dont have enough territory? There is nothing intersting of resources in the Russian-Chinese border regions. Oil, gold and diamonds all are far to north. China and Russia signed a treaty that we have no more any territorial claims and pretensions after we gave them back their damn islands on Amur river.

And finally,
Russia will never ask for American help. Because if your troops enter some state it finally becomes pro-american democracy-fanatic country with all their civil rules and rights "to say a word". And this country can do nothing without USA permission because if smth is wrong USA will smash it by economical embargo and so on...

Nothing personal, John S1
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#31
Quote:I wonder when did USA became Russian NATURAL even ally?
Maybe when the CIA and other guys of that kind made 'Orange' revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine?
Maybe when some strange congressman told to the hole world that the USA want Russia to get out of G8?
Maybe when pribaltic states became the part of NATO?
Maybe when Rise began to warn Belorussia?
Maybe when Washington became very interested in "democracy building" in Russia? There are thousands jokes in Russia which begin with words "G. Bush asks Putin about how is it going with democracy in Russia..."

No, none of these.

Perhaps, it happened when the US bombed that Slobo fellow on behalf of islamist terrorists...
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#32
Alright let me rephrase this a little bit. Russian and US are potential natural allies. There, does that help you some? We have simply too much going for us.

And you should never burn your bridges behind you by stating that you will never ask for our help. Not very wise.

But get this.
Quote:About China.
Why should China decide to gobble up some parts of Siberia? They dont have enough territory? There is nothing intersting of resources in the Russian-Chinese border regions. Oil, gold and diamonds all are far to north. China and Russia signed a treaty that we have no more any territorial claims and pretensions after we gave them back their damn islands on Amur river.

Now, this is the height of naivette. Remember Hilter made a nice little treaty with Uncle Joe. What happened then? The point is that you cannot trust a tyrannical state, and China is a tryannical state. If you think that they have an established habit of being forthright and honest, I have this nice little bridge in Brooklyn I would love to sell to you at a very nice price.

Also, Russia and China have already come to blows over border rights in the past. Do you honestly think that this covetous neighbour will sit back and not enter your house late at night when you have already gone to sleep? Surely you are wiser than you convey here. S1

And I must say that your previous post clearly shows that I am right about Russian sociatial paranoia. Wink1 S6
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#33
Quote:The point is that you cannot trust a tyrannical state, and China is a tryannical state....

I don't know what is tyrannical and what is not, but there is a simpler model: a state with growning population is naturally an expansionist state.

The Russian border region is devoid of population; it is natural for the Chinese to colonize it. So they will.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#34
That famous battle on Damansky island was not territorial claim but it was Mao's provacation before the meeting Nikson (that was Nikson, right?)-Brezhnev-Mao. He just wanted to show us - Soviets and Americans - that China is entering the game.

More, what do you meant tyranical state? Seems, you think that those countries who dont like USA are tyranical. Anyway, most of Chinese people dont consider their country to be tyranical hell. How can i know that? I live in the country which was also called tyranical by the EU comission, dealing with some civil rights stuff. But it doesnt matter anything. You may call China whatever you like - but it will remain a powerfull red hammer behind your back. Like the Soviet Union was some day.

To conclude,
You say that
Quote:The point is that you cannot trust a tyrannical state, and China is a tryannical state. If you think that they have an established habit of being forthright and honest, I have this nice little bridge in Brooklyn I would love to sell to you at a very nice price.
Iraq was destroyed by the USA - i mean that after your troops entered Iraq there are every-day terrorist acts and doezns of victims. Its ecomomy is destroyed. Their oil... let us wont speak about it... And some years before USA supported Iraq in the war with its neighbour. Just few years ago... So, that means USA also to be so called tyranical state? And please dont tell me that USA wanted to save the world from Saddam and his "nuclear weapons".

Seems USA also "Doesnt have permanent friends, it has only permanent interests".
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#35
Taiwan is as much a province of China as Chinatown in Toronto or San Francisco are. Furthermore, Taiwan is a strategic naval base to contain Chinese maritime ambitions.

I think it's weird that our Russki posters view China as less a threat than America,China is taking over the Russki far east without Russia firing a shot while Russians waste their time while they lose their nation eyeballing the evil Americans,who have no intentions of exporting our excess population to supplant dying Russki in the Russki far east.

Putin is protecting mother Russia from an imagined America,while he cedes without a WORD Russia's far east and you 2 Russki support his doing so.
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#36
Nemerov Wrote:More, what do you meant tyranical state? Seems, you think that those countries who dont like USA are tyranical.

This is a purely gratuitous statement. To assume that I have ever stated that I think that those countries who don't like the USA are tyranical, is not using one's intellect well. I'm trying to be tactful here, but it is hard.

I only stated that China was a tyranical state, and are you challenging me on that statememt? I suggest that you are adding too much into my statements that simply do not exist. Besides, China does not have to be "hell" to be tyrannical. And I would think that any country that has the state police to fear, or worry about imprisonment because of one's beliefs, of simple statements is a tyrannical one. Do you disagree here?

Quote:Iraq was destroyed by the USA - i mean that after your troops entered Iraq there are every-day terrorist acts and doezns of victims. Its ecomomy is destroyed. Their oil... let us wont speak about it... And some years before USA supported Iraq in the war with its neighbour. Just few years ago... So, that means USA also to be so called tyranical state? And please dont tell me that USA wanted to save the world from Saddam and his "nuclear weapons".

Again, I don't know where you are gathering your news, but it is definately biased and not entirely on the level. First, Iraq is not "destroyed", and it's economic infrastructure is better than it was when the war started. If you don't think so, perhaps we can find some Iraqi bloggs that will help inform you as to the daily life in Iraq and what the citizens think.

I realize that it is late and the vodka weighs heaviest then, but perhaps tomorrow morning the head will be clearer. Wink1

Palladin Wrote:Putin is protecting mother Russia from an imagined America,while he cedes without a WORD Russia's far east and you 2 Russki support his doing so.

Patrick, I agree with your statement here. Our Russian friends here are not looking behind their backs and doing exactly what Uncle Joe did when he was invaded during Operation Citadel. He was SHOCKED, Just SHOCKED into inaction for over a week. I suspect that when China maneuvers them out of their Siberian heritage, they too will by SHOCKED, just SHOCKED!

And to think that Russia has the reputation of having the best chess players. Imagine that. Since it has the world's highest percentage of alcholics, I can see where bending the elbows and reaching across the boare are not mutually compatable. S6

Russia had better get it's act together soon, or it will be forced to lose weight, without it's concent.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#37
John L Wrote:Patrick, I agree with your statement here. Our Russian friends here are not looking behind their backs and doing exactly what Uncle Joe did when he was invaded during Operation Citadel. He was SHOCKED, Just SHOCKED into inaction for over a week. I suspect that when China maneuvers them out of their Siberian heritage, they too will by SHOCKED, just SHOCKED!

I'm not so sure. (To Russia) China represents a strategic threat, but not an immediate threat, and in fact no threat at all if the China-US conflict opens up first.

OTOH, the threat from Bush admin is very real and is backed up by hostile actions.

I'm actually mildly surprised that so far Putin's reaction to the US was so tame.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#38
Duh Nemerov D

The US became a "natural ally" in 1941. We lost a lot of sailors and merchant marine shipping FREE trucks and planes, and equipment to Russia to help her fight Hitler.
If we had not been a "natural ally" we would have just let the communists and the fascists bleed each other white, instead of opening a second front...in Africa, Italy, and France.
Best regards
Ken
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#39
I still can't understand, what we are discussing:
1. Russia and USA are natural allies.
2. Bush (and not only Bush) is natural idiot, who can't understand item 1. It's exactly a problem. Putin's antiBush politic is forced by Bush. May be Putin will be replaced by naturally antimerican politician, but Putin is not.
3. All, who understand item 1, participate this forum.
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#40
Don't blow a gasket, bh. Bush is no idiot, and as the world gets smaller, everyone can become an ally. No need to bother with "natural" or not...if there is common cause, then two peoples can pull in the same direction.

Free Enterprise works where ever it is tried, but there is always the intractable interference by tyrants and loonies who always think they can do it one better.
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