Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Islam: The 'So Called' Religion of Peace And..............
#61
Anon,

I had a Muslim once tell me that the Koran taught that the "female" myopia is because it says they are sexually insatiable and sex outside of marriage apparently makes you possibly go to hell.

The male is seen as virtuous unless destroyed by the "disgusting" female "Jezebel" mentality. This is why they make them wear bags for dresses,it's why they basically hate women. I would too if I believed they were the "disgusting" seed,etc.

My view about Islam is I could literally care less what they believe and do so long as it is within their own area. If they want to believe such nonsense,fine with me.

It's the jihad mandate that causes reactive war. I don't think you are seeing this properly. We don't war on them because of their ridiculous religion,no one cares about their religion until they murdered us.

What will change Islam? Maybe nothing,but maybe when they all get a good taste of being ruled by a local Zarqawi they might re-examine the entire ridiculous basis of that thing as opposed to blaming us for everything. This seems to occur in Iraq in certain areas.

Therefore,I don't give a da.mn when the Zarqawis take over for a year or so,we can then kill them in concentrated numbers and their Islamic vicitms might think about how can these nuts come to this thought process,is there something in my religion that mandated it?
Reply
#62
Quote:Islam is a huge topic of discussion here. Palladin makes many thread on it, which all get many replies.
These things in mind, I'm going to try to get to the heart of the issue. Islam *is* a problem. It is a problem because of the way it treats women. Islam preaches taht women are essentially deceitful, and need to be guarded against. This, I believe, is the root of the violence that Islam creates.
I consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool-Liberal, yet it is because I am liberal, that I abhor the way Islam is practiced in most Mideast countries. Contemporary Islam is the antithesis of liberal values - demeaning women, promoting warfare, etc.
Anon,
that's a bold arc from the so called 'demeaning women' to terrorism. I'm pretty sure Muslim women are in their vast majority not unhappy with their situation, but they are of course not asked since our verdict is clear-cut.
I'm not sure whether all the liberties for women and their right to be forsaken by the society of greed as much as men is actually a benefit? Are their liberties caused by liberalism or rather pragmatism, anyway? Might be rather because they were discovered as valuable taxpayers, subjects to exploitation, consumers, even soldiers of their own right. Some restrictions might have gone, but so did some protection.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Reply
#63
KenRI Wrote:I agree with Anonymous to an extent. Except Islam as a whole isn't "bad", it's those who radicalize it who are bad.
What should be done, especially to Muslim youth, is educate them about their own religion...not "Westernize" it, but use their own religion to show that it has been hijacked and used as a scam to justify terrorism. (which is forbidden in Islam)
Here's an article I found interesting. This is actually a good PSYOP campaign they've come up with recently. It could very well work work, IMO, if done carefully (i.e.: if it's not turned into something offensive to Muslims).
islam means peace, a small minority just doesn't knows that, eh?

you forget that many scholars and their followers support torture, war on infidels, unequality between men and women, religions and other NOT because they MISunderstand islam, but because they do understand the surahs in the way they are written. Mohammed himself had started offensive wars, killing hundreds. Whenever apologists teach us how these surahs must be interpreted within the historical context and so on, they forget that not WE have to interprete but THEM, those who preach violence and stuff.

The problem is that there are no imams with bigger influence who clearly declare by fatwa that certains surahs may not be understood in an offensive way that doesn't go together with human rights - but that doesn't happen because famous scolars say that would change the Qu'ran and for it's God's word it may not be changed.
Reply
#64
Palladin Wrote:My view about Islam is I could literally care less what they believe and do so long as it is within their own area. If they want to believe such nonsense,fine with me.

It's the jihad mandate that causes reactive war. I don't think you are seeing this properly. We don't war on them because of their ridiculous religion,no one cares about their religion until they murdered us.
exactly.
Reply
#65
Chanan,

Before you arrived,we had some debates on the following question

"Is Islam formally responsible for the terrorism or are the terrorists abberants"?

My view is,at least partially the life of Mohammad is responsible and major Islamic figures support the anti America,anti Jewish and anti Christian oriented jihad. Most here disagree with that view and consider the terrorists as aberrants.

Kamil is a Muslim who posts here and his experience is that Islam teaches no such thing as this terrorism in any form or fashion. I believe Kamil is sincere,he was raised a Muslim in Turkey. I think Turks are not religious people,too so we cannot judge the debate using Turks as examples for largely they do not participate in this phenomenon.
Reply
#66
Quote: Are their liberties caused by liberalism or rather pragmatism, anyway? Might be rather because they were discovered as valuable taxpayers, subjects to exploitation, consumers, even soldiers of their own right.

Liberalism is pragmatism S6 That's why I believe in it.

I think the stifling of women's rights in Mideast regions causes a great deal of rage in men, for some reason.
Reply
#67
Anonymous24 Wrote:
Quote: Are their liberties caused by liberalism or rather pragmatism, anyway? Might be rather because they were discovered as valuable taxpayers, subjects to exploitation, consumers, even soldiers of their own right.

Liberalism is pragmatism S6 That's why I believe in it.

I think the stifling of women's rights in Mideast regions causes a great deal of rage in men, for some reason.

Curtis, since you are not really a Liberal, why don't you just go with "progressive" instead?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#68
Quote: I'm pretty sure Muslim women are in their vast majority not unhappy with their situation, but they are of course not asked since our verdict is clear-cut.

This is ridiculous. Just because they have to go out wearing a bag over their head... just because some of them are given cliterectomies... just because they have no rights... just because they can be Honor-Killed for the SUSPICION of non-marital sex... why shouldn't they be happy?

Let's say, somehow you're right.. and a good number of them are happy...

What if we raised a man in a closet... never let him out of the closet.. threw him food once or twice a day. No entertainment except what he could make in his own head. Pulled him out of the closet just before death and managed to communicate to him the question "Hey, was your life a happy one?"

Would it matter if he said yes or no? Would that make imprisoning him for life acceptable?
Reply
#69
Anonymous24 said
Quote:To reply to both Ken and Matrix, Islam is bad, but the way to remedy it is *not* through war. Let Muslims drive themselves into the ground, while they are exposed to the benefits of Western values. Their young will see the light, eventually, if not its happening right now.

In Lebanon today the Lebanese government (Arabs) are fighting Bin-Laden jihadists (Arab) based in a refugee camp. They fight because the jihadists are a clear and present danger. Sometimes, fighting is necessary, perhaps. The Mexican government is fighting drug lords, for the same reason.
Reply
#70
I think war like we warred on Japan and Germany would reform the hell out of Islam myself. Just leave enough scraps for the mothers and grandmothers to fight their mangy dogs for food,all their sons and husbands long decomposed,they'd start re-thinking this jihad bullshit fast and furious.
Reply
#71
Quote:They fight because the jihadists are a clear and present danger. Sometimes, fighting is necessary, perhaps.

Which is why we should attack any governments which knowlingly harbor and support terrorists. Hussein's government didn't - far from it.
Reply
#72
Anon,

Fighting them anywhere will change their ignorant neanderthal minds if we kill enough of them,period. I don't care where we do it.

The jihad mentality brings them to the battlefield. Incidentally,I do not mean change their minds about how they treat females or alcohol,but about messing with us. The local attitudes are not a concern of mine.
Reply
#73
The local attitudes are what creates them.

I agree we need to invade terrorist-supporiting nations. But the big joke is that Iraq *wasn't* one.

Saudi Arabia caused 9/11. Yet, we didn't invade them.
Reply
#74
Anon,

If we must invade Mecca,it must be to decontaminate the radiocative shine for non Muslim peoples to repopulate the entire Muslim world,any less use of force would be the height of insanity.

Something to consider. Now,here's a spoof on the recent Pew research poll taken of US Islamic citizens which indicated around 13% of our Muslims support al qeada,terror,etc. Who the hell needs Saudi Arabia to bomb when we have a few million Bin ladenites legally residing here?

http//iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2007/05/midwest_luthera.html
Reply
#75
Anon24

There is plenty of evidence that Saddam was in contact with, and in support of Al-Qaelda.
Reply
#76
JT,

There is some,but it wasn't like the Taliban's,it was more along the lines of feelers and such,hit and miss proposals.

I don't think anyone can find evidence that Saudi Arabia was supportive of al qaeda,but many of the people are. They fund it,cheer it and join it at times.

Invading will do nothing,destroying it entirely would help,but we don't do nukes after 1945.
Reply
#77
jt Wrote:Anon24

There is plenty of evidence that Saddam was in contact with, and in support of Al-Qaelda.
-------------------------
Well. Of course he had some 'contact' with Al Qaeda because Al Qaeda was and is active in the region.

But to say he supported Al Qaeda is wrong. Al Qaeda got no benefits from Saddam. They saw Saddam as one of their major enemies in the region. Saddam led the Baath party which was a secular and non-religious party. Quite the opposite of Al Qaeda so to say.

/track_snake
Reply
#78
Great article! He's right on also.

Quote:Endemic Madness

By Victor Davis Hanson
The Washington Times | June 25, 2007

"The Palestinian people will never forgive the Hamas gangs for looting the home of the Palestinian people's great leader, Yasser Arafat." So Palestinian Authority spokesman Abdel Rahman recently exclaimed. "This crime will remain a stain of disgrace on the forehead of Hamas and its despicable gangs."

Looting? Crime? Despicable gangs?

Excuse me. For years, Palestinian Authority-sanctioned gangs shot and tortured dissidents, glorified suicide bombing against Israel and in general thwarted any hopes of various "peace processes."

Of course, this kind of behavior isn't limited to the Palestinian territories but is spread across the Middle East. The soon-to-be-nuclear theocracy in Iran is grotesque. Iraqis continue to discover innovative ways to extinguish each other. Syria assassinates democratic reformers in Lebanon. ABC News now reports that new teams of al Qaeda and Taliban suicide bombers have been ordered to the United States and Europe from Afghanistan.

Here's why much of the region is so unhinged — and it's not because of our policy in Palestine or our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

First, thanks to Western inventions and Chinese manufactured goods, Middle Easterners can now access the non-Muslim world cheaply and vicariously. To millions of Muslims, the planet appears — on the Internet, DVDs and satellite television — to be growing rich as most of their world stays poor.

Second, the Middle East either will not or cannot make the changes necessary to catch up with what they see in the rest of the world. Tribalism — loyalty only to kin rather than to society at large — impedes merit and thus progress. So does gender apartheid. Who knows how many would-be Margaret Thatchers or Sandra Day O'Connors remain veiled in the kitchen?

Religious fundamentalism translates into rote prayers in madrassas while those outside the Middle East master science and engineering. Without a transparent capitalist system — antithetical to both Shariah (Muslim law) and state-run economies — initiative is never rewarded. Corruption is.

Meanwhile, mere discussion in much of the region of what is wrong can mean execution by a militia, government thug or religious vigilante.

So, Middle Easterners are left with the old frustration of wanting the good life of Western society but lacking either the ability or willingness to change the status quo to get it.

Instead, we get monotonous scapegoating. Blaming America or Israel — "those sneaky Jews did it" — has become a regional pastime.


And after the multifarious failures of Yasser Arafat, the Assads in Syria, Moammar Gadhafi, Gamal Abdel Nasser, Saddam Hussein and other corrupt autocrats, many have, predictably, retreated to fundamentalist extremism. Almost daily, some fundamentalist claims that the killing of Westerners is justified — because of a cartoon, a papal paragraph or, most recently, British knighthood awarded to novelist Salman Rushdie. The terrorism of Osama bin Laden, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Taliban is as much about nihilist rage as it is about blackmailing Western governments to grant concessions.

Meanwhile, millions of others simply flee the mess, immigrating to either Europe or the United States.

These reactions to failure often lead to circumstances that can defy logic.

The poor terrorists of Arafat's old party, Fatah, seem to shriek that they have been out-terrorized by Hamas, and desperately con more Western aid to make up for what has been squandered or stolen.

Muslims flock to Europe to enjoy a level of freedom and opportunity long denied at home. But no sooner have many arrived than they castigate their adopted continent as decadent. The ungracious prefer intolerant Shariah — denying to their own the very freedom of choice that was given to them by others.


Our response in America to this perennial Middle East temper tantrum?

In the last 20 years, we've sent billions in aid to the Arab world. We've saved Muslims from Bosnia to Kuwait. We've removed dangerous thugs in Afghanistan and Iraq, fostering democracies in their place. We've opened our borders to immigrants from the Middle East. We've paid billions of dollars in inflated oil prices. All the while, many in the West have wrongly blamed themselves for the conditions in the Middle East.

It's past time for Middle Easterners to fix their own self-inflicted mess. In the meantime, the U.S. and its allies should help as we can — but first protect ourselves from them as we must.

If they come over here, and then attempt to bite the hand that feeds them, then we should send them back, from whence they came.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#79
Any news of Hamas bankers inquiring on the untraceable wealth of Arafat's wife Suha?
Reply
#80
WmLambert Wrote:Any news of Hamas bankers inquiring on the untraceable wealth of Arafat's wife Suha?

Don't know Bill.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Why Islam is the better Religion quadrat 13 2,206 11-18-2015, 11:01 AM
Last Post: Ron Lambert
  Proof that Islam is the correct religion Kamil 4 1,499 12-03-2013, 07:26 PM
Last Post: Palladin
  Islam: A False Religion John L 10 2,564 10-29-2009, 02:55 PM
Last Post: John L
  Buddhism, the religion of wisdom and peace? quadrat 13 3,808 02-08-2007, 02:43 PM
Last Post: John L

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)