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Donald Rumsfeld's Warning
#21
Ken,

In WWII and in our wars with native Indians,we were warring against foreign and civilizationally different cultures that could not live in peace side by side. The cold war probably fits into that paradigm as well,but for now forget it.

All our other wars were NOT and I am the first to agree in each we should follow the standard gentlemanly rules of warfare westerners agree on.

We are at war with the notion within Islam that it rules,that it has the right to rule and whatever it takes it will rule. Most Muslims don't conduct business as the warriors,but most Muslims accept what Islam says about Islam and infidels.

Therefore,we're at war again,not of our choice,with a civilization more dangerous than 1940 Germany,it is not animated by delusional German racists,but men who think God is proud of their evil and their culture supports them as Germany's supported Hitlerism.

Today,I cannot honestly say we should blow up anyplace because I think we're shot across the board,but if we had the right attitude,Fallujah would be smoking STILL after the incident there and I submit the insurgency would have died out real quick. For proof,I submit TIKRIT,Iraq.

No problems to speak of due to RAW FEAR of our retribution. Instead,Americans are prepared and were prepared to send home our children dead to us to spare their civilians. I cannot express how repulsive that thought is to me.

It's them dead or us dead. In case you have not noticed,they started this and murdered our civilians up front,it's a civilizational conflict. If you or anyone else chooses us in lieu of them for death,be sure and side with Thai and oppose us getting in any future wars.
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#22
How many Iraqi terrorists killed Americans before the start of wars?

Where are the terrorist camps in Iraq that was reported in the Western Media and repeated by Western Politicians?

Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Is Iraq more peaceful now compared before the start of invasion?

To me now it appears to be that the invasion of Iraq was totally unjustifiable.
How would you feel if it was the other way around, and (God forbid) some stronger nation invaded USA for unjustifiable reasons?
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#23
Kamil its not about Iraqi terrorists so much but the terrorists Hussein supported and was increasing support to. We got there right on time. Saddam Hussein supported Abu Nidal, Ansar Al Islam, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. He used them as proxies to get at America, to get at Israel and those who suggest otherwise are playing into the hands of terrorists and their sponsors.
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#24
Independents4Bush Wrote:Kamil its not about Iraqi terrorists so much but the terrorists Hussein supported and was increasing support to. We got there right on time. Saddam Hussein supported Abu Nidal, Ansar Al Islam, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. He used them as proxies to get at America, to get at Israel and those who suggest otherwise are playing into the hands of terrorists and their sponsors.
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Saddam never supported Al Qaeda or Ansar Al Islam.

/track_snake
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#25
track_snake Wrote:
Independents4Bush Wrote:Kamil its not about Iraqi terrorists so much but the terrorists Hussein supported and was increasing support to. We got there right on time. Saddam Hussein supported Abu Nidal, Ansar Al Islam, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. He used them as proxies to get at America, to get at Israel and those who suggest otherwise are playing into the hands of terrorists and their sponsors.
--------------------------------------------
Saddam never supported Al Qaeda or Ansar Al Islam.

/track_snake
hahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa! :lol: :lol:
Solo~

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson
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#26
SoloNav Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:
Independents4Bush Wrote:Kamil its not about Iraqi terrorists so much but the terrorists Hussein supported and was increasing support to. We got there right on time. Saddam Hussein supported Abu Nidal, Ansar Al Islam, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad. He used them as proxies to get at America, to get at Israel and those who suggest otherwise are playing into the hands of terrorists and their sponsors.
--------------------------------------------
Saddam never supported Al Qaeda or Ansar Al Islam.

/track_snake
hahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa! :lol: :lol:
-----------------------------------
You don't need to laugh.

Because that is the truth.

Saddam saw Al Qaeda and Ansar Al Islam as potential enemies to his Baath Party.

/track_snake
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#27
track_snake Wrote:Saddam saw Al Qaeda and Ansar Al Islam as potential enemies to his Baath Party.

Concur.

The statement about Hamas and Islamic Jihad support is also incorrect, these two got most of their support from the Saudis, Syria and now Iran.

Saddam, however, did support PLO factions: secular terrorists rather than religious.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#28
Kamil,

Ansar Islam had a camp in Halajba that was so well fortified that 250 soldiers died clearing it. Zarqawi had been there. Artillery was prominent. I don't see how anyone believes in that police state that ansar set up that camp there without Hussein's authorization? The law abiding Kurds couldn't,he massacred them with WMD chemicals.

The WMD is altogether different,but since he was an old enemy,a dictator and had used it,it was common sense we felt he still did,most Iraqis thought he still did as well as news reports detail.

More importantly,it is NOT unjustified to invade a nation that you have been at war with for 12 years and they had violated the peace treaty so often we cannot count the attempts to shoot down our pilots.

His attempts to murder our pilots are what were UNJUSTIFIED and his assisting ansar islam as well. They had artillery,well armed encampment in a city Hussein previously had massacred the inhabitants WITH WMD.

The invasion under any moral judgement was not unjustified using western morality ethics. Wise? No. Unjustified? No also.

Otherwise,we could say that Hitler could have signed a peace treaty with our Army still in France and he could have tried without fear to murder our people and to have invaded after 12 years would be unjustified.
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#29
Palladin Wrote:I agree 100% with Donald. We've lost(by early 2003) the temporary focus we had on reality and we're going to receive a devastating reply because of it.It's strictly a matter of time. Pay attention to those trials he mentions. It is going to be easy to murder 1 million Americans in a few days.

We live in interesting times.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/16224448.htm

Gee Whiz, Palladin, I didn't know that you were a big fan of Pat Robertson.

Yeah, I remember a time when if the Democrats would have said something like this, we would have been accused of wishing this to happen because George Bush was in office. You guys just use a communique from God and that makes it OK. :roll: S6
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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#30
Palladin Wrote:Kamil,

Ansar Islam had a camp in Halajba that was so well fortified that 250 soldiers died clearing it. Zarqawi had been there. Artillery was prominent. I don't see how anyone believes in that police state that ansar set up that camp there without Hussein's authorization? The law abiding Kurds couldn't,he massacred them with WMD chemicals.

The WMD is altogether different,but since he was an old enemy,a dictator and had used it,it was common sense we felt he still did,most Iraqis thought he still did as well as news reports detail.

More importantly,it is NOT unjustified to invade a nation that you have been at war with for 12 years and they had violated the peace treaty so often we cannot count the attempts to shoot down our pilots.

His attempts to murder our pilots are what were UNJUSTIFIED and his assisting ansar islam as well. They had artillery,well armed encampment in a city Hussein previously had massacred the inhabitants WITH WMD.

The invasion under any moral judgement was not unjustified using western morality ethics. Wise? No. Unjustified? No also.

Otherwise,we could say that Hitler could have signed a peace treaty with our Army still in France and he could have tried without fear to murder our people and to have invaded after 12 years would be unjustified.
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Palladin,

Ansar Al Islam had some kind of partly autonomous region there close to the border of Iran.

I really don't know but they were not any friends with Saddam's Baath Party.

/track_snake
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#31
Grizz,

My(and Donald's) concern that we are losing our vigilance towards Islamic terrorism is akin to Pat Robertson's nonsense about God speaking to him?

I guess there is no problem,is that the message? Muslims suddenly don't believe in jihad,right?
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