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May be Time to Leave Iraq
#1
I don't want us protecting the Sunnis,they've brought this on themselves. I say leave and let nature have it's way,out and off with the Sunnis from Iraq,I think the jig is up myself.



http//apnews.myway.com/article/20061124/D8LJHRPO0.html
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#2
I agree, it's (way past) time for the coalition to get out of Iraq. I didn't bother to read the citation listed here, but read a similar one on commondreams.org, about "It's broke and we can't fix it."

Our troops deserve better than dying in a bloodbath. Bring them home. In the article in Common Dreams, perhaps, the author says that 200,000 or 300,000 more troops might make a difference, but troops don't grow on trees; they grow in families, who need them back home, safe and sound.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#3
Yep, mission accomplished, you can leave. Irak is a new terrorist state, caused by the American invasion, fueled by a never ending civil war. Petrol companies could already cash in. Further business for Lockheed & Co and CIA & Co is guaranteed. The Americans can be kept behind the waving banner of patriotism against the spooky terrorists.
Watched a documentary about Saddam's torture of his 'enemies' today, there were plenty and they were horrible. There might have been a valid reason to remove him from power and to hang him. However, is it not strange how quickly his own evil deeds are forgotten in the shadow of a greater evil unleashed by America?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#4
Quad,

Iraq might just solve itself like Iraq and Iran did in the 1980s or Stalin and Hitler in the 1940s. It's not a terrorist state,it's a chaos state with the vast majority intent on killing the terrorists and their families,which just happen to be America's enemies.

That is a good thing,not a bad thing.
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#5
More news about things getting out of hand:
Quote:U.S. can’t defeat insurgency in western Iraq, report says

November 27, 2006
The U.S. military is no longer able to defeat a bloody insurgency in western Iraq or counter al-Qaeda's rising popularity there, according to newly disclosed details from a classified Marine Corps intelligence report that set off debate in recent months about the military's mission in Anbar province.
...
The report describes Iraq's Sunni minority as "embroiled in a daily fight for survival," fearful of "pogroms" by the Shiite majority and increasingly dependent on al-Qaeda in Iraq as its only hope against growing Iranian dominance across the capital.
...
"Despite the success of the December elections, nearly all government institutions from the village to provincial levels have disintegrated or have been thoroughly corrupted and infiltrated by Al Qaeda in Iraq," or a smattering of other insurgent groups, the report says.
...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15926797/ The actions of the Bush admin and the military have created utter chaos, Iraq has turned into an ungovernable recruiting and playground for terrorists.
Where are the alledged WMDs? What happened to defeating terrorism? What happened to "democracy in the Middle-East"?
The arrogant Bush admin with their neo-con agenda have failed completely, instead of the propagated goals, they have achieved almost the exact opposite.- as predicted by many from the start.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
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#6
Quote:What happened to "democracy in the Middle-East"?
I wonder how to establish democracies in such countries anyway? Full with religious bigots who claim to possess the only truth. I guess, for democracies a great part of the population must embrace things like relativism and atheism. In the Middle East, there are only religious, military or secular dictatorships (like SA or Turkmenistan) to chose from. Turkey? Without the warranty of the armed forces to interfere immediately in case the religious nuts increase their powers, they would have been islamistic for decades.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#7
Achilles Wrote:Quad,

Iraq might just solve itself like Iraq and Iran did in the 1980s or Stalin and Hitler in the 1940s. It's not a terrorist state,it's a chaos state with the vast majority intent on killing the terrorists and their families,which just happen to be America's enemies.

That is a good thing,not a bad thing.
I doubt that it's a good thing, rather than a bad thing. As in, good versus evil. Most of the victims of the suicide bombers, and of the Sunni vs. Shiite vs. Kurd killings, are innocent victims, not terrorists. America, under its current leadership, CREATED far more enemies of the USA than Saddam ever did. And not just in Iraq.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#8
Thai,

They are evil people,it is not a bad thing if they kill each other off. Those unwilling to fight should go ahead now and flee while there is time.Stalin's followers killing Hitler's & vice versa was a win-win situation,so would this be.

So Zarqawi types and Sadr types massacre each other,the world suddenly becomes nicer and those who don't share their myopias are without their myopic brethren,what on earth could be better for Iraq and everyone?
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#9
Palladin Wrote:Thai,

They are evil people,it is not a bad thing if they kill each other off. Those unwilling to fight should go ahead now and flee while there is time.Stalin's followers killing Hitler's & vice versa was a win-win situation,so would this be.

So Zarqawi types and Sadr types massacre each other,the world suddenly becomes nicer and those who don't share their myopias are without their myopic brethren,what on earth could be better for Iraq and everyone?
But Palladin, what if not all the victims are evil? Most of them are innocent, and they are dying without Christ as savior. How can that be a good thing?
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#10
Congratulations mates! You have just consented to WWIV.
Bean
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#11
Thai,

What if I accidentally kill Zarqawi's son while I bombed Zarqawi? What if I accidentally killed Eva Braun when I bombed Hitler's lair?

Last I looked,we are not in paradise quite yet . Just keep this thought in mind,not a hair on the head of 1 human is harmed without GOD makes the call it is allowable.

No man can harm you,me or Osama without God's authorization. Anyone dies anytime,anywhere for any cause it is because God has made the Divine and Sovereign decision for it.

We've striven to give this society a fair shot at a fair governance& unification with much of our blood,it may be proving they cannot have that due to their lack of national virtue.
I'm only opening a debate about it for discussion,but if we cannot see it possible for that to occur,it is best for our safety if the Shiites either run off or kill all the Sunnis,period. Sunnis have declared war on America,Christians and Jews. IMO,it is intolerable any Sunni group come away from any fight with us as victors,to do so will lead to way more warfare as Bean surmises above.

I know you're anti war,but don't forget,the Sunni Muslims are who attacked us repeatedly starting in 1993,they've been begging for some war. Hopefully,they'll get more than they bargained for before it's over,even if it takes their Moslem brothers to do our work for us in Iraq.
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#12
This is a topic about international politics, and about bringing our American troops home from Iraq. I agreed with you, Palladin/Achilles, that it was best to get out.

Now the question ssems to be, shall we dance in the streets if the Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds kill one another, going to Hell without Jesus? Don't invite me to that celebration. Please don't rejoice in our Savior's name.

I think it was Melchior Hoffman or Baltasar Hubmaier who said, "God is not the author of evil." In fact, Paul may have written that. Not everything that happens is really God's will. If that were so, then everything related to the World Trade Center bombings was God's will - let's not blame Him for that.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#13
Finally, a very imaginative solution I can agree with. Especially:
Quote:"Shiite Muslim cleric Moktada al-Sadr, whose Mahdi Army numbers in the tens of thousands, will be captured, beheaded and buried with 72 virgin hogs at a pig farm in Israel. The video will be posted at YouTube.com."
. :lol: :lol:
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#14
It's time to pull out, but not for any of the parsimonious reasons stated. The American voter said it was time to go.
Once again America sent her Troops off to war then pulled the rug out from under them. I would agree it's time to pull out and stay out.
No more American Soldiers dying for those that are not worth it.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government
Edward Abbey
[Image: eagle_1721.png]
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#15
eaglestrikes Wrote:No more American Soldiers dying for those that are not worth it.

The Iraqis or the U.S. electorate?
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#16
I think eaglestrikes interprets the recent congressional elections as a mandate by the voters to pull out of Iraq. I doubt it. How many of those 469 elections were based on war versus anti-war? Few if any. In fact, many of the Democrats who replaced the Republicans (I think) were centrist Dems, and I didn't hear that any of the new congressman are pacifists. They are, almost entirely, war-mongers who disagree about HOW to wage war.

An anti-defense budget organization that monitors the defense dollars recently stated that those Democrats were were just elected are almost all in favor of increasing the defense budget.

Let's bring the troops home, for whatever reasons.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#17
I defer to eaglestrikes with regards to what eaglestrikes actually means.

Fit2BThaied,

No one consciously wants to virtually guarantee failure in Iraq via a expidited premature exit and usher in a "genuine" civil war/genocide involving millions of slaughterees in a blood soaked Islamohollocaust. And much care has been taken to blithely trot around the whole "cut and run" label. But look at the rhetoric change and policy morphing in the less than a month after the election.

What people really want means little. It's what they choose that's pertient. And that goes for BOTH the Iraqis AND for the U.S. electorate.

... or to quote it properly from Spock in StarTrek VI ...

Quote:What you want is irrelevant, what you have chosen is at hand ...
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#18
Gents,

I concur with Eaglestrikes. Most the people in this nation are not worthy of the sacrifice of our soldiers. I include ME in that assessment. We deserve slavery and might just get it before we all die of old age. If it happens,it will be pretty much without a fight. We don't have enough fight left in us to punch our way out of a wet bag.

Thai,

No one,repeat NO ONE,is allowed to die physically without Christ if they ever will believe in Him. To say otherwise is to attribute evil to God. Just rest easy knowing He controls human history,if anyone dies,it's because God allowed it to happen one way or another.
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#19
Quote:A call for President George W. Bush to reduce US support to Iraq if Baghdad fails to improve security drew a sour response from Iraqi politicians, who said Washington had an obligation to back their government.

"The US calls itself an occupying force in Iraq and, according to the Geneva Conventions, if you are an occupier then you are responsible for the country," said parliamentarian Mahmud Othman, a Kurd.

"They have no right to to do this. This is unfair."

What an irony to see the Geneva Conventions evoked as a reason to extend our presence in Iraq. Maybe we should get these guys directly in touch with John Murtha ... he's another one of those Geneva Conventions experts isn't he?

And that said, if anyone here is willing to explore a slightly contrarian view ...

Whoa!! ... where the he## did this guy come from??
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#20
Palladin Wrote:Gents,

I concur with Eaglestrikes. Most the people in this nation are not worthy of the sacrifice of our soldiers. I include ME in that assessment. We deserve slavery and might just get it before we all die of old age. If it happens,it will be pretty much without a fight. We don't have enough fight left in us to punch our way out of a wet bag.
Let me leave your religious quote out of my response, because that's not the main thrust of this discussion. I agree that we, including I, are not worthy of the sacrifice by our soldiers, precisely because that sacrifice itself is flawed by the circumstances. So, let's bring them home.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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