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The Reconquista
#1
So ,is Steyn right do you think?

http//fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/09/old-and-new.html
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#2
70,000 men in one place, praying for our death and destruction.....

NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL A "TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT" lol
Ken
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#3
1492 is a hinge year. The end of the reconquista, and then this Italian navigator/ship's captain walks into the court of Isabela and Ferdinand. Izzy says to Ferdie, "Hey, husband, we've got all this military with nothing left to do. Let's go conquer an entire hemisphere!"

Was it Madeline Albright or some other American lady more recently, who said, "That's why we have a military, to fight wars; let's put them to use."?
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#4
Ken,

They're easy targets,the question is do we have the courage to not become slaves?

I'm not as sure as you are we do.

Thai,

Spain evangelized more humans probably than any other peoples in human history,you have a problem with that do ya?
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#5
Fit2BThaied Wrote:1492 is a hinge year. The end of the reconquista, and then this Italian navigator/ship's captain walks into the court of Isabela and Ferdinand. Izzy says to Ferdie, "Hey, husband, we've got all this military with nothing left to do. Let's go conquer an entire hemisphere!"

Gosh, Fit', I was taught in the History department that the reason for the Spanish expansion was because it was all about finding a trade route to China. Didn't Christofo Colombo approach them with that in mind? Didn't the rest just sort of fall into place as an after thought?

Perhaps my history professors were incorrect?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#6
Perhaps I overlooked some S2 or an S6 when I was comically referring to Izzie and Ferdie; I didn't mean it literally.

Palladin, I have a huge amount of repulsion to evanglism by the sword, forcing the natives to change their religion because the emperor and his highest priests want the army to slay those who don't convert. In fact, isn't that one of the reasons you're so fixated against fanatical Islam, because they force to you practice Islam after the conquest? Isn't that what you think is wrong about Islam, that their religious leaders urge a jihad that's not that different from a conquista? In fact, right on topic, isn't this thread about Islam turning the tables on history, doing their 21st century conquista against the alleged "Christian nations"?

John L, I imagine that the co-monarchs of Leon-Castille had multiple reasons to spend all that money on Colombus' voyage. But in the year 1492, you're right that they didn't even know an entire hemisphere lay between the Iberian peninsula and the spice islands like Ceylon. But once they discovered it, they were eager to 'evangelize' it by the sword, enslaving the "Indian" indígenas, burning their holy books, etc.

If we're just discussing this on the basic of economics (oil prices, currency exchange, cartels, etc.), that's one thing. Or if the discussion is just about politics without morality, that's another thing. But, to discuss it on the basis of morality and righteousness and "I've even holier than thou" requires us to declare whether our highest moral authority is God or an obviously 'immoral' nation, or natzionalism itself.

Oh, by "natzionalism" I don't mean Hitler's Third Reich. I mean nationalism as supreme moral and religious authority. German nationalism was so supreme in Germany in the 1935-1945 decade that Bonhoffer violated his pacifist ideals in an attempt to murder Hitler, for the sake of the nation of....yeah, you guess it....the nation of Germany.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#7
Thai,

South America and the Philippines know Christ due to Spaniards&Portuguese. That doesn't repel God. Why does it repel you?
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#8
Well Palladin, it does repel me. Sorry. The Spanish and Portuguese murdered a lot of innocents...on purpose, to steal their gold.
Since God and I are on a first name basis, I can speak with authority on this subject.
Would you please not muddy the issue confronting us. Jesus Christ, man!
In that post you put us in the same "conversion by the sword" idiots as the 15th century Conquerors and the present day islamic idiots.
Please restate your post.
Bean
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#9
Ken,

I will not. There was no one else available and willing or else GOD would have dispatched them,so it is left for me to assume you 2 "repelled" Christians would have preferred millions perished eternally in he.ll so you could feel so self righteous&judgemental today.

I don't share your desires. If you want to state you wish they were in he.ll,it's your business,but it is not your business nor your right to demand I share your opinions.
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#10
KenBean Wrote:Well Palladin, it does repel me. Sorry. The Spanish and Portuguese murdered a lot of innocents...on purpose, to steal their gold.
Since God and I are on a first name basis, I can speak with authority on this subject.
Would you please not muddy the issue confronting us. Jesus Christ, man!
In that post you put us in the same "conversion by the sword" idiots as the 15th century Conquerors and the present day islamic idiots.
Please restate your post.
Bean
Thanks, Ken; we disagree about other things, but this subject is obvious: the modern-day conquistadores want to do essentially the same kind of perverted "evangelism by the sword" that the Muslim fanatics want to do. Both sides of immoral fanatics want to do their conquista at the same time. Many Christians WANT to hasten Armageddon.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#11
The problem with the target-rich environment are all the counterterrorist double agents we and our allies are inserting into the mix. They will eventually cause the end of these groups.
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#12
William,

The problem with the above discussion has nothing to do with politics or terrorism.
These 2 Christians have just stated they both prefer all these evangelized Asians and South Americans should have been left without the knowledge of Christ and now to suffer eternity in he.ll because those doing the evangelizing don't meet their more righteous standards.

They were the best God had to offer at the time,but what the hey,a few million in he.ll to appease their self righteous hearts,we don't want to offend our righteous 2 here for nuttin.
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#13
No one goes to hell with goodwill and honest faith in their hearts.

A good Buddhist is just as beloved as a Mexican peasant living in a desert village putting all his faith in the village priest.
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#14
Quote:No one goes to hell with goodwill and honest faith in their hearts.
Just out of curiosity: how do you know? My understanding is that no one (yet) came back and described the conditions "there". :lol:
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#15
Because that's where lawyers go!
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#16
Okay, trying to keep this topic going. The new radical Muslim leadership, like some of its predecessors, wants to once again spread its "saving" religion by killing any conquered people who don't want to get saved. That is a conquest, a conquista, similar in many ways to the conquista in the New World after 1492.

Of course I don't wish that all those natives in the New World would not have received the Gospel. Most devout Christians in the USA, however, apparently are praying to God to let American Christians sponsor a deadly conquest of the Muslim world, so Jesus can save the Muslims there. Meanwhile, radical Muslims want to do essentially the same thing in America, for Allah and Mohammed. Same-same, as we say in Thailish.

I wish that all true Christians would want to spread the "Gospel of Peace" and the "Peace of the Gospel" - as Paul described it in his letters - peacefully. Equally, I wish that all true Muslims would want to only spread their message peacefully. Same-same.

Actually, it may not be against the Koran to spread Islam by the sword. But I'm sure that such sword-evangelism violates the commands of the New Testament. Especially since the "Great Commission" requires that the evangelization and spread of Christianity be done by making disciples of the converts, teaching them to obey all things Jesus commanded them to do.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#17
William,

That's the central lure of human history outside of Christ you just repeated there. First reported in Genesis Chapter 3 as a lure to Eve.
People of good and honorable intentions are not perfect. Imperfect man has no association with perfect God,the creator.
No compromise is offered by God in that respect. Your view expressed here is either that God Himself is not perfect or that He will compromise His integrity to accomodate we sinful humans if we are relatively fine folks.

No man outside of perfect will ever have association with the creator of the universe. That's why Christ exists,to bridge that gap for us.
"He that has The Son has Life,he that does not have The Son will not see life,but the wrath of God continues to abide on him".
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#18
I must re-state my position!
The "Conquistadores" killed and conquered, stole the gold and went back home...or built mini-empires here in the western hemisphere that still exist today.

In North America it was immigrants building homes and farms. They brought their evangelism with them, but never a whole convert or die attitude.

Whole different paradigm.
Bean
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#19
Ken,

You have a little problem here. God saw fit to use the Spaniard &Portuguese conquistadors and the Catholic Priests they brought with them to evangelize all of South America,The Philippines,Cuba,etc.

These people first heard of Christ via these people.

That was centuries ago. IF God had better among His people at that time to do this massive and unimaginably important work,He would have dispatched them to do it.

He did NOT at that time.

The initial response of you 2,it seems honestly to me,is that God might ought to have waited and allowed all those millions to perish without Christ until He had a better witness to testify of His Son's work.

Perish that thought. God's Word out of the mouth of a parrot is still God's Word and wil not retrun to Him without it's proper positive value.

I'm no Catholic,but I am in awe of Christ,His control of history and what He has done for us all. He made NO error in who He dispatched to evangelize those people,nor was His timing suspect.

The errors of Catholics in history notwithstanding,God The Father doesn't nor ever has had the luxury of having perfect servants except the humanity of Christ.

Who does not see the Hand of God in the conquest of Mexico,300 Spanish warriors against millions of Aztec pagan death cult worshippers? You think THEY did that by themselves for heaven's sake?????
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#20
Palladin, have you actually ever been outside your valley? Do you know what kind of "bloody violent make-believe, false EVANGELISM" was done during the conquista of Latin America, or even after 500 AD among the pagan tribes of ancient Europe? It's just like the Muslim conquista that the Islamic fanatics, whom you condemn, wish to do!! That is the point of this topic.

Pal, the army walked into the native villages, all over Latin America from Tierra del Fuego to Rancho Viejo, New Mexico. With fully armed soldiers pointing loaded weapons at the ignorant natives, the commander read (with the priest's clear blessing) an announcement in a strange language, FORCING the natives to either believe, or die.

You have a rough idea of how demanding the Christian life is supposed to be. Well, guess what - the Latinos aren't much better Christians than the folks over in the next county from you! They cheat on their wives, maybe even molest the children, drink way too much, curse and steal....they were never taught a form of Christianity that demanded discipleship or obedience.

And that's probably what kind of "Muslimicity" that passes for Islam in most Islamic countries, similar to what our parish priest called "half-baked Catholics."

Here's the choice they gave them, and it's not too different from a civil war in Judges 19 and 20: we're going to kill all the males and rape all the females, if you don't convert to our religion. And that's what you are so proud of, that you think God blessed?

Now, if you want to see demanding Christianity in Latin America, the evangelical missionaries teach that there is a cost of discipleship. The converts from Roman Catholic to Protestant stop smoking and drinking, stop beating and cheating their wives and daughters, and go out and work hard at their job. Sometimes.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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