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The Reconquista
#61
Thai,

If I desire to murder you( a function of human free will under the control of satan) and it is NOT Christ's desire I succeed,you live and I fail.

That violates neither His sovereignty or my free will. He just stymies me when it is His desire to.

There we have both free will allowed and God's sovereignty controlling human history.

So for example,as with the Iraq war today,Christ is allowing every death,every destroyed building and every good/bad thing on both sides. That war will come to an end when He decides it will come to an end as all end this way.

IF it was against His Will,it would NOT be occurring. If Christ did not allow Bin Laden to murder 3000 Yanks on 9-11,it would not have happened.

Christ's over riding Will stops whatever He wants to. His intent is we all believe in Him and let there be peace on earth and justice for all,but since that is not ever going to occur until the millenium,He deals with this rat infested bunch of losers called mankind in Grace and Justice at all times moving forward HIS GOSPEL.
Sometimes,what you think is bad works for the Divine Good. Right now there are new believers in northern Iraq,who is to say they would have been evangelized otherwise but this catastrophic of war? All the dead unbelievers are NOTHING as they chose against Christ(and all the dead believers are in God's Will in eternity) compared to 1 soul rescued from he.ll.

Christ is sovereign and controls human history and it was Christ who empowered the Spaniards to evangelize the South Americans whether you 2 want to think that little episode just escaped His attention or NOT.

Christ uses humans to advance His Gospel and it isn't even always believers. He often in Scripture motivates an unbeliever to do something that accrues to His Gospel's advance.

I do take issue with you 2 because it is clear to me you must either believe

A) The south Americans were not evangelized,apparently because it was Spanish Catholics evangelizing them

OR

B) You think they all went to he.ll because it wasn't YOUR Church that evangelized them in the style YOU would choose.
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#62
I wasn't going to even reply, but hey, that's what we do here.

If I understand your point of view about all actions being within the will of Christ, then according to that view, the Nazi Holocaust against the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, Communists, et al, was God's will, and so was everything that Christ allowed Saddam Hussein to do. Is that what you're saying? If so, then everything is always God's will, and we don't need to fight against evildoers like Saddam or Hitler.........right?

The conquista of the New World, as I read the first hand account of Bernal and other books, was so evil that the term 'evangelization' doesn't belong in the same breath. "Evangel" is the good news about God, and it is defined/described in New Testament Greek as "the peace of the gospel" and "the gospel of peace." Isaiah said and Paul repeated, "Blessed upon the mountains of Latin America are the feet of those who proclaim God's peace" - okay, so I added a word or two. S1

I don't doubt that some indigenous people of the New World have become believing Christians, because I worked among some of them. Their ancestors, however, as recently as a century ago, probably worshipped the pagan gods of the sun, moon, and corn. Some of their neighbors still worship those gods; it's a weird place. The conquista started between 1492 and 1542, roughly, and is basically still going on.
I'm often wrong. But I'm not always wrong!
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#63
Thai,

God's Command Intent/Will for us all is to believe in His Son and live the Christian spiritual life inside the Scriptures,constantly filled with the spirit.

That would preclude all human errors of criminality,which would preclude hate, war,crime,etc. That is His Will for all mankind. That's what He wishes.

His Command Intent/Will is often not fulfilled. SO.....He has to deal with humanity as it is. Now,we find His Righteousness and Justice condemning mankind in evil status.

When His people fail Him miserably in the spiritual life side of the equation,His Righteoussness condemns and His Justice Disciplines in cycles. They are in Leviticus. There are 5 cycles of dicipline for a nation.

When His people do not get with the program in large enough quantities,He destroys the nation in the 5th cycle.

This is why 9-11 occurred,it is a warning to American saints to get back to His Word or worse is in the future. Israel had all the warnings and all the discipline and at times got with the program and pulled herself out of the discipline. The OT is very much concerning this issue.

God once used the evil Chaldeans to punish His people. God Himself states He strengthened the Chaldeans to be able to punish the Jews, So,YES,it was God's Will to see the more evil Chaldeans punish the less evil Jews and then He turned around and destroyed the Chaldeans much worse,that was God's Will.
Habakkuk is a good read on understanding this and FYI,it is not my belief,it is God's Word. I don't pass around my theology in lieu of Christ's and claim it is Christ's. I can document this in Scriptuure.

Of course we need to fight against evil,you're the one who says to leave evil alone by letting murderers be free to murder us. All I'm telling you is Christ controls history and nothing happens He doesn't allow. It's nonsense and spiritual ignorance to turn that doctrine around and say we do not need to resist evil.

While Christ allowed Hitler,in fact used Hitler to punish His people and the unbelieving Jews of the era as He did Nebuchadnezzar before Hitler,He used the allied side to 10X punish Germans for their more evil as He had the Chaldeans before them. Fighting against Hitler and Hussein are equivalent situations strategically and morally. Neither attacked us yet,both times Christ used us to hammer His adversaries(though you wish He had not).

He is currently punishing both His people in America via Islamic evil(i.e. Chaldeans,i.e. Nazi Germany) and in Iraq&Afghanistan as well as 10X punishing the Iraqi&Afghani more evil ones. Same story,old as the creation of mankind. God's Justice takes no rest,it's a phenomenon you do not understand.

Now to Mexico again. Do you not know any history that millions of those folks believed that Jesus was the Son of God way before recently? Just because they don't meet your criteria you are condemning those folks to he.ll? High and mighty of ya.

Back to the initial reason for this thread,Muslims are re-conquering Europe without a fight and will the USA as well if we Christians here don't get with the unique spiritual life. Our heritage may be handed to some more faithful group of believers in another nation.
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