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Bush confirms secret CIA prisons
#1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,212481,00.html

This should come as no shock to anyone with a brain. There is a strategic need for them and they are legal for the United States to have. They have used them to hold the likes of Khalid Sheik Mohammed and according to the CIA have helped prevent attacks against the United States. The left especially internationally have had problems with these prison. No countries on earth have been able to find them in their own countries, if you believe their statements.

So this tells me the CIA may actually have its act together if they can hide these from countries in their own backyard. Looks like Goss did a decent job when he was there. These prisons have allowed the United States to prevent future attacks and gather the information they need to prosecute these people.
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#2
Good for the US. I think these terrorist cells are impossible to crack by traditional spy networking. The only other option is captured bad guys for information. What they did on 9-11 was and is so terrible that the rule book should be thrown out. The Madrid train bombings was more of the same. Hopefully, the terror movement will just die out from lack of success in the future, kind of like the Berlin Wall coming down.

I have thought that Bin Laden and AlQuada remind me alot of the James Bond films. In James Bond films the bad guy is a rich man like Goldfinger who is in charge of a secret criminal organization like SPECTRE. It is not country against country, it iscountry against criminal organization.
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#3
I suspect that the incidence of capture has gone down of late, since the court ruling. No soldier, in his right mind, would wish to take the chance capturing someone, who may just be let loose, or just warehoused, not knowing if they would return and kill other buddies. I think that the grunts are ruling on the side of caution and just 'waxing' them instead. Honestly, I would shoot first, and then ask questions. Wink1
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#4
I guess Bush ought to sort of hold a referendum. Do we treat this as legal or as war,sorta late for it,though.

He's becoming perplexed and confused.

Is it war? Why would you treat the combatatnts via your civil legal system? Why would you offer these creeps Geneva Convention protection when they fall outside the protected status base don their conduct?

George,if it's legal,why are all our soldiers dead? Why are all the 10 thousands maimed? Why did we not just ignore 9-11 and occasionall capture a creep like Clinton did if after 5 years you decide it's a legal solution available?
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#5
Here's the thing: to fight this war, maybe there do need to be things like wiretapping and secret prisons, but Bush should create these things legally by changing the laws, instead of trying to circumvent Congress. By taking the latter option, Bush has majorly, and this is a huge problem, failed to create some kind of consensus support for the war.
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#6
Bush IS doing things legally. If he were chargeable, believe me the demos would have acted.
All he must do to do just about anything is sign an "emergency order", and the Demos know it.

One more major attack on us here, and that might be his very first step.

(emergency powers go all the way to national Martial law, or any steps short of that as the President determines necessary)

Ken
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#7
Anonymous24 Wrote:Here's the thing: to fight this war, maybe there do need to be things like wiretapping and secret prisons, but Bush should create these things legally by changing the laws, instead of trying to circumvent Congress. By taking the latter option, Bush has majorly, and this is a huge problem, failed to create some kind of consensus support for the war.

Agreed! He should have immediately gone to Congress and asked for a formal declaration of War against Radical Islam, and those State supporting it, whereas there would be no question at to the legality of the actions. The lack of this is still beyond me to comprehend. He had the votes then, and he let it slide. I'll bet you he wishes he had done so right now.

The next major attack will change this attitude.
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#8
I agree with Larry Johnson's article from off of AlterNet about CIA prisons and torture.

AlterNet Wrote:According to Bush, secret prisons and torture have kept America safe. Not entirely true. While fessing up to the secret prisons, one of the critical things Bush failed to tell the American people was that CIA interrogators learned the hard way that torture was not an effective interrogation method. Books written by Jim Risen and Ron Suskind during the past two years provide compelling accounts that torture against people, particularly Khalid Sheikh Mohamad, was ineffective. Suskind recounts that Mohamad, one of the masterminds behind the 9/11 attack, was waterboarded, a technique designed to make you feel like you are drowning. Interrogators also threatened to rape and murder his family. Mohamad reportedly replied, "Do what you will, my family will be with God."

Bush also neglected to mention that, despite his previous criticism of the Clinton administration for not fighting terrorism as a military threat, almost all of the Al Qaeda operatives cited in his speech were captured through intelligence operations. In other words, most of the successes we have achieved as a nation in tracking down and capturing terrorists has been the work of law enforcement and and intelligence officials, not our soldiers.
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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#9
Anon,

I think we probably need to have a Presidential campaign type media exposure concerning this entire issue.

My own view is we don't need any laws,we already have within the constitution the ability for the POTUS to jail or kill anyone he wants to without trial or even charge. It's in Article 9 of the US constitution and it doesn't say we even have to be at formal war either.

HOWEVER,since we have 300 million citizens and many don't see this fight as I do,I think it apporpriate to form a concensus,"how do we handle these creeps"?

Make a concensus,set guidelines and operate accordingly.

Article 9 I allude to is under the heading "congressional authority",so IMO,for Bush to be able to do as I described above,he would have to have congress AUTHORIZE him to first.

Being wise,he should set up a panel of respected citizens across the spectrum who would review any detentions or policies ,sort of respresenting us all.

Bush has no cred with anyone and he has been rather arrogant concerning the issue,so there will be opposition to even reasonable resolutions simply due to the personal hostility thing,some cannot rise above it.
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#10
Consider this:

FDR was willing to support segregation in order to get his political opponents on board during the buildup to WWII.

Bush won't even get rid of his beloved tax cuts. People wonder why the Dems don't seem to support the war; its because Bush doesn't want them to, he wants to use the war for Republican political gain, and its gonna blow up in his(and the GOP's) face.
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#11
Anon,

I disagree that the tax cuts are fodder for such,but I'm not above recognizing Bush likes to use the issues to political advantage.

A politician generally thinks that way. However,I disagree Bush wants them to side with the enemy and that is NO excuse for most democrats to side with the enemy in some instances and an occasional Republican.

The tax cut thing is mis understood. There is this idea that higher rates = higher revenue and it is a false notion. Lower rates bring in higher revenue,that's why the budget deficit during an expensive war is rapidly narrowing,not growing.
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