Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Turkish Guantánamo detainee released after 4.5 years
#1
Image of Murat before detention
[Image: 2092383.jpg]

Image of Murat after his release, to protest his detention Murat did not have haircuts or shave during his detention,
[Image: 2092713.jpg]

Excerpt from Amnesty International article
Quote:Released from Guantánamo on 24 August 2006, Murat Kurnaz had been held for four years and eight months without charge or trial. The only contact he had been allowed with his family was through heavily censored letters.

In a statement, his German lawyer said: “He is now again in the circle of his family. Their joy at embracing their lost son again is indescribable”.

Murat’s mother, Rabiye Kurnaz dedicated these past years to campaigning for her eldest son’s release. In November 2005 she attended an international conference organized by Amnesty International and Reprieve where she spoke of her hopes of being reunited with her son. Now these hopes have become a reality.

Murat Kuraz is a Turkish national who was born in Germany in 1982. His prolonged detention in Guantánamo had been complicated by his status – lacking German citizenship, the German authorities had refused his return to Germany. The Turkish authorities had shown little interest in his case.
Reply
#2
What's the background on his initial detention?
Reply
#3
Murat Kurnaz was most likely the victim of so-called bounty hunters, i.e., warlords and police officials who have collected bounty money from the Americans to stock up their own war chests—all as part of the “war against terror.” Alleged Taliban fighters are worth US$5,000, with the Americans prepared to pay $20,000 for supposed Al Qaeda members. Those delivered are mainly foreigners, and in Pakistan Murat stood out as such. His eyes are blue, his hair and beard are reddish-brown and his skin is fair.

Murat had arrived in Pakistan just a few weeks earlier, in October 2001. According to his parents, Murat travelled to the country to “see and experience the Koran” and to visit a Koran school. They do not believe he intended to join the Taliban. At the time he was just 19 years old and, as his German lawyer Bernhard Docke informed the newspaper tageszeitung, Murat was still wet behind the ears. Lacking any military training or knowledge of languages, he would have been completely useless to the Taliban. He was never in the battle regions of Afghanistan. With his red beard and blue eyes he was regarded as a spy in the Pakistani Koran school—a suitable victim for someone to earn bounty money from the Americans.

From: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/may200...-m28.shtml
Reply
#4
Kamil,

A Muslim in a Muslim nation(Turkey) has to go to a wahabbi stronghold where the Taliban rules(Waziristan) to "experience Islam"?
Reply
#5
Palladin he was not in Turkey, he was born and grew up in Germany.

Pakistani's pulled him out of a tourist bus that was touring historical Moslem sites in Pakistan.

I would have no problems about his detention if it was justified, but looks like they did not find any criminal intentions on his part, but he had to spend 25% of his whole life as a detainee because Germany or Turkey did not want bother with him.

Unfortunately, now I would not trust him due to the contacts he had as a detainee.
Reply
#6
Kamil,

We've made several errors(it stands to reason we always will),but I am more skeptical than you on this one. Germany&Turkey didn't care? Something sounds wrong on that one.

I bet money he was less innocent than you think from day 1,we just cannot find any evidence of actions taken. We would not have on Mohammad Atta as well on 9-10-2001. If they give him a trial(which all of them do receive notwithstanding the lies of the globe) and cannot prove any connections to a terror group,we let them go.

I agree,4.5 years is a travesty and we should have done more rapid adjudication,BUT,we have lost soldiers already to released GITMO detainees. We couldn't prove a connection there either. We have re=arrested at least 12 so far. If you have a kid in combat,where is the justice to him for this?

We're in a war where we have to wait until they murder some of us first if we go by strict legal adjudication.
Reply
#7
I don't know Palladin, he was only 19 years old when he went to visit Pakistan. He only spent one week in Madras, looks like he got kicked out or left it on his own choosing, and was touring historical sites in Pakistan for about one week.

He might had some bad thoughts, but I doubt very much that he was serious about them.

I think like the article said, Pakiis saw him as an opportunity to make some money and took advantage of it.

His traveling partner to Pakistan was supposed to be another Turk, who got arrested in Turkey before they went to Pakistan on suspicion of setting off a bomb in Istanbul. At that time Turkish authorities might have informed Pakistan about Murat who was traveling alone.

Later on that guy was cleared of any involvement in the bombing incident.
Reply
#8
Could be. If it is,I regret it,but we are going to make errors and I bet money you're right,the Turk intell ratted him out,so it was an error not totally unforgiveable as his friend was involved in the Turk bombing.

Wrong place,wrong time.

Incidentally,he looks like Rasputin now.
Reply
#9
Kamil,

Per Palladin's question, why does Pakistan have such significance in Islam? If he really wanted to "experience the Koran", why wouldn't he do it closer to the Arabian Peninsula? Sorry for my ignorance, but it just strikes me like travelling to L.A. in order to "experience" Mexico. I realize that countries like S.A. have financed lots of Madrasas there, but I figured that was primarily for the poorer locals benefit ... rather than Turk-German pilgrim/tourists.
Reply
#10
I think it's a valid point of inquiry.

For starters,ARABIC,the classical style Mohammad used is taught in Yemen,not Pakistan. In Islam,it is more important to learn classical Arabic and read the Koran in it's initial language as they do not believe in translating it(I'm not sure this is a wrong decision either after learning what I have about the errors in English translations of Biblical Greek).

What association does Pakistan have with historical Islam,the religion came late to east Asia? Islam began on the Arabian peninsula and it was Arabs that spread it far and wode,not Pakistani Indians. Remember,that place was India until 1947.

So,what IS significant about Pakistan? It is the home of radical Islam today,maybe moreso than any other nation on earth.

I remain unconvinced he is an innocent. Maybe he is,but I wouldn't bet on it.
Reply
#11
Mr. Yak,
That is a good question, unfortunately I have no idea why would he travel to Pakistan to find more about Islam, like you said Saudi Arabia would have been the place to go.

However, whatever he was thinking, I think getting detained for almost 5 years without any charges against him was excessive.
Reply
#12
Kamil Wrote:However, whatever he was thinking, I think getting detained for almost 5 years without any charges against him was excessive.

"Whatever he was thinking" is a pretty key detail. If he was held unjustly than that's horribly unfair and unfortunate. But with so many Muslim 'foreigners' travelling to Pakistan for training in things that have absolutely nothing to do with religious studies ... a certain amount of suspicion is justified. With Germany ... particularly the Germany under the direction of Gerhard Schröder not actively intervening on behalf of one of their citizens ... you simply have to wonder. Acquital is not the same as innocence.
Reply
#13
Mr. Yak,
If we get thrown into jail for our thoughts, I'm afraid that I could be charged with rape :twisted:

However, I won't carry out most of my daydreams.
Reply
#14
Kamil Wrote:Mr. Yak,
If we get thrown into jail for our thoughts, I'm afraid that I could be charged with rape :twisted:

However, I won't carry out most of my daydreams.

Making a trek to Pakistan strikes me as a bit more than a simple daydream. More like a nasty nightmare.

(Not exactly my idea of a vacation paradise ... unless of course you're chasing those famous 72 virgins. :twistedS1
Reply
#15
This is what Germans are saying about Murat Kurnaz.

Following is an excerpt from an article at Deutshe Welle
Link is: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144...20,00.html

Quote:No proof of terrorist activity

Kurnaz, dubbed the "Bremen Taliban" after the northern German city where he lived, was arrested in Pakistan in late 2001, and taken to Guantanamo Bay in 2002 on suspicion of having fought for al Qaeda.

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Allegations of torture at Guantanamo Bay have prompted widespread protest from human rights organizations
A US court found allegations of Kurnaz's involvement in terrorist activities to be untrue. His release follows months of talks between the US and German governments. Chancellor Angela Merkel reportedly brought up the issue when she met with President George W. Bush in Stralsund last month. Kurnaz said he suffered abuse including sexual humiliation, water torture and the desecration of Islam at Guantanamo.

According to reports in Der Spiegel, Berlin has refused US requests that Kurnaz be put under constant surveillance and his passport confiscated. However, he will not be free to completely return to his old life. Prosecutors in Bremen intend to investigate Kurnaz on suspicion of involvement in a criminal network.

Experts close to the case say Kurnaz's detention at Guantanamo was unlawful.

US and German intelligence concluded as early as 2002 that

Kurnaz had no connection to al Qaeda, the Taliban or any terrorist threat, said Baher Azmy, a Seton Hall Law School professor who has represented Kurnaz since mid-2004.

"The government's evidence against Kurnaz has ranged from

incredibly tangential to at times preposterous," Azmy said in a statement.

"Kurnaz's case lays to shameful waste the government's repeated assertions that Guantanamo houses only hardened terrorists or persons captured on the battlefield," Azmy said.
Reply
#16
Quote:Mr. Yak,
If we get thrown into jail for our thoughts, I'm afraid that I could be charged with rape

You would rape someone? Please tell me this was taken out of context.

Kamil you seem more upset at the United States than the Pakistanis. They were the ones who dropped the ball. They probably lied just to get the money. Yet somehow we're the villian here? You know this is why westerners think you guys want to be treated with a higher standard than anyone else. How dare you hold on to a guy based on lies you believed from Pakistanis. Shouldn't it be how dare those Pakistanis lie to a vulnerable America right after 9/11 in an attempt to exploit them for money.
Reply
#17
Independents4Bush Wrote:
Quote:Mr. Yak,
If we get thrown into jail for our thoughts, I'm afraid that I could be charged with rape

You would rape someone? Please tell me this was taken out of context.

Kamil you seem more upset at the United States than the Pakistanis. They were the ones who dropped the ball. They probably lied just to get the money. Yet someone we're the villian here? You know this is why westerners think you guys want to be treated with a higher standard than anyone else. How dare you hold on to a guy based on lies you believed from Pakistanis. Shouldn't it be how dare those Pakistanis lie to a vulnerable America right after 9/11 in an attempt to exploit them for money.

I'm not particulary upset against any country, but feel sorry for the guy for spending almost 20% of his life in prison.
How long you think somebody should be detained if there is no proof of guilt?

Palladin you said that
Quote:I agree,4.5 years is a travesty and we should have done more rapid adjudication,BUT,we have lost soldiers already to released GITMO detainees. We couldn't prove a connection there either. We have re=arrested at least 12 so far. If you have a kid in combat,where is the justice to him for this?


I'm afraid that even if Murat had no ill feelings toward the USA before his detention, he might be feeling differently now.

If he was released to Turkey, I would have felt more comfortable if he was put under 24 hours of surveilance for at least a few years.
Reply
#18
Yeah going to Nazi Germany during the 2nd world war to study political science would now be recognized as something stupid.
Reply
#19
German TV keeps covering the story. Quite a character, this Kurnaz. Looks as if he would have been sacked by Al Quaeda for being too violent, but behaves like a whimp. (Been raped, hurts, cannot poo). Interesting twist, he claims he was several times interrogated by German special forces bevor he was transported from Pakistan to Cuba.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Reply
#20
Almost all the detainees we have were tasked to us by other intell services. Adding that to this,we see most people on earth act hypocritically

http//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/16/AR2006101601339.html
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)