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French Lawyer to Defend Saddam
#1
I realize that this is about a month old or so but I just found out about it today. In this bit of news, it is reported that renowned French Lawyer, Verges, said he would defend Saddam at his trial. Verges is known for defending other war criminals.

Verges also says this:

Quote:Verges singled out U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a key advocate of last year’s U.S.-led war to oust Saddam, for his role 20 years ago as a special envoy of then-President Ronald Reagan.
He said that if a trial of Saddam took place, Rumsfeld would have to “take a seat next to the leader.”

I heard somewhere that Verges also said he would go after Bush and Tony Blair for "war crimes." Reactions anybody?

Here is a link to a news bit regarding this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4614259/
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#2
Depends on the judge - what he'll admit. If it is rigged then anything may happen.
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#3
Why am I not suprised to see it's the French again? Really, what is the deal with those guys?

Putting Rumsfeld on the same level as Saddam? Disgraceful. There is nobody in US history you can put on that level.
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#4
BJC,

There was an important update to this story from yesterday: they decided on the tribunal; it is going to be the Iraqis.


WmLambert Wrote:Depends on the judge - what he'll admit. If it is rigged then anything may happen.

The tribunal will be headed by a nephew of Chalabi. Now, given the amount of mutual hate between these two families, I suspect that nothing unpredictable would happen S1 It is safe to bet on a conviction.

What I wonder about is if there is a death penalty option.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#5
I wonder if they could possibly get his body hair to grow quickly and thickly. That way, instead of using the death penalty as usual, they could exhibit the old lion in the public zoo and allow for his execution in a most slow manner. Death by a million laughs.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it.
H. L. Mencken
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#6
Quote:I heard somewhere that Verges also said he would go after Bush and Tony Blair for "war crimes." Reactions anybody?

I'd like to see some specifics on this. The UK has been charged with genocide in the ICJ, together with several other countries. The case against the US is currently inactive due to technical errors; it may be reinstated later. (But even if it is, it is really a case against Clinton, not against Bush).

Canada, which is one of the other countries accused of genocide, currently rejects charges. To the best of my understanding, even if convicted, Blair et al would not be hanged.

The charges of "war crimes" fit the situation better than the current charges of "genocide".
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#7
Death penalty is merciful for Saddam, for any Iraqi to confront him with his crimes will also not do that person any justice, Saddam believes he is a hero, a national leader not just for Iraq but the whole Arab world, he did manage to get the Arabs to call him and they still do "the ex Iraqi president" which really bothers many Iraqis, he was never a president to us, he was a Tyrant, a dictater, a criminal, but never a leader or a president of Iraq.
What is the point of putting him on a trial? we might as well just have in cage like an animal and ignore him complety while we are re building the country again, silence is the most effective way to kill him. He is still enjoying the attention he is getting from the media and the investigaters and can't wait for show time, why give him the satisfaction?
Ignore him and lock him up in a public place and have him watch how we are moving on, that will kill him in the most effective way.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#8
March Saddam Hussien through the Shia and Kurd regions in an iron cage. Have the children and women line up with rotten food. End the tour at the graves of his sons. One executioner, alone, no one around other than the video cameras.

Any last words, and then end it.
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#9
Hey, Baldar. how about we just put him back in the spider hole where we found him and seal it up?
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#10
I would not excute him, that is merciful, throwing rotten food is a waste of rotten food my friend, I'd rathar see that rotten food be bed to earth for more, better earth than to waste it on Saddam, I honestly believe ignoring him and locking him up in a cage with minimum maintanance is the best punishment to this.....
I am so tempted to use slang swear words here but won't.

If I had learned anything in life, holding on to anger and keep moving on making the most of what life has to offer is one great strategy to punish your enemies. It's very hard to do though, took me a while to be able to say it as well as do it.
Saddam and his regime is history, I still can't beleive I lived to see this day coming and to see the Berlin Wall come down!
Life is good,
Thanks again to the US for all the work. I still confirm my support to the war as I did all along.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#11
Are we not being just a little bloodthirsty around here?

This said, I do like Baldar's idea.

And there is no question that he needs to be executed. The fellow is responsible for something like a million deaths; so if he is left alive, no death sentense anywhere in the world would be legitimate.


(I do fully understand what umhasan said...and John was saying similar things before... but there is really no choice.)
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#12
You group are so nice to me, appreciate it and please keep it up.
I love conversations, no arguments, I am good at both though but I choose conversation over argument.
I think I also like the idea of putting him back in the spider hole where he was found, this time with no vent and perhaps connect a sewer pipe too!
I am being nasty here, sorry! S1
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#13
umhasan,

Actually, you are being nice to us --- you are giving us the sense of how the Iraqi feel -- not something we can easily get from a newspaper.

Forget about Saddam---he is certainly history. Even if you let him go free, no way he can the power back.

You already said what you think about Al Sadr and Chalabi. Could you comment just a bit on other major figures, like Sistani, Al Hakim, Barzani, etc.

Who are the good guys, if anyone?
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#14
Hm, who are the good guys? by my standards, that would be a very hard question to answer.
I really like Al Hakim who was killed last fall outside Najaf, I thought he was sensible, a good diplomat, and a good presenter (not leader) for the Shei'tte.
Al Systanee, I refuse to understand: "a woman can't hold a legislative position by Islamic Sharia" (this was his statement), these religious leaders for the Shei'ttes are to give women a break and start paying attention to what we have to say, things can't stay the old way any more, we are older, more educated and we have questions that need answers.
Pachachi is an intellectual Iraqi with good life experiences, a very well spokesman.
I really don't know much about the rest of them in depth but can assure you again we are still not ready for nationalism now, give us time and get more people involved, this way we can have more and perhaps better options.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#15
From what I've read elsewhere, the cleric killed last spring (Al Khoei?) was the most sensible. Pachachi seems to be the only professional politician there, but he is also way too old...

Zeyad seems to totally agree with your "not ready". If you have not seen his post, you should take a look: he is very good.

A bried quote from his link above:

Quote:We, Iraqis, are not qualified to administer ourselves. Let us admit it. The time for truth has dawned. The time for confession. The whole world deals with us as minors: When we debate with each other, we do it with knives and sticks. When we disagree we grit our teeth and shake fists. When we love someone we take off the fig leaves that cover us. When we hate someone we hate the adversary up to his seventh neighbour.

And if "not ready" and "no good guys yet" is actually true -- seems obviously so -- then power transfer on June 30 is totally insane...
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#16
Zeyad's comment is right on the money. Iraqis don't know the definition of democracy yet,we have to spoon feed it to them, a simple concepts we know and take for granted is the art of talking and carrying on a conversation, Zeyad mentioned the exact words to describe us when we talk to each other, how can we be leaders of a country?
I had a TV interview about the June 30th date and my comment was "giving a date is a god sedation for now, no way Iraqis will be ready to take power in few more weeks" and they won't and the US knows that too but we take the date for now and then we'll talk.
Pachachi is great, what's wrong with being old?
Al Hakim was a loss for all of us not just Shei'tts but all Iraqis. dad told me there was a huge ceremony for his funeral in Baghdad when he was killed. I think that says a lot about who he was.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#17
Quote:Pachachi is great, what's wrong with being old?

Usually: No energy; the power slips into someone else's hands.

Also, is he not a Sunni? I see you don't mind (which is a good sign if you want to keep a united country), but would other Shia even consider accepting him?

--------------

Quote:Al Hakim was a loss for all of us not just Shei'tts but all Iraqis. dad told me there was a huge ceremony for his funeral in Baghdad when he was killed. I think that says a lot about who he was.

An interesting analogy with Afghanistan here. Abdul Haq (I hope I remember the name right) could have been a better/stronger leader than Karzai; he was certainly more respected among the Pashtuns. But we let him get killed (in one of the worst CIA's screwups).
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#18
My best friends are Sunnis, we joke openly about each other with no offense or heart feelings.

I don't know much about Afghnistan or the leaders there except for the talibans and Osama.

I think we (Iraqis) have enough trouble of our own to worry about than someone else right now, or to be curious about other countries' politics.
Let's stay in Iraq, it's quiet a handful, don't you think? Wink1
What other Shia's are you referring to? Please don't tell me about Muqtada al sadir and his followers,
If you say my father is old and relate why he like Pachachi, I have a brother who is 40 and he likes him too, what does that tell you?
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#19
umhasan Wrote:If you say my father is old and relate why he like Pachachi, I have a brother who is 40 and he likes him too, what does that tell you?

Tells me that you and your family are very open-minded. But then, you are also educated, and so are your parents. How about someone who is not a crazy al-Sadr follower, but not educated, how would they feel?

(I'm still very curious how common are people like you or Zeyad).

About "Old": I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I meant that Pachachi himself is old; I think he is in his late 70s. Many people of this age look only for rest; do you think that a person of his age has enough energy to try to put things together?
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#20
Thae sample of people you asked me about are your average Iraqis and they feel the same way about this al Al Sadir, I remember visiting my Iraqi friend here in Albany and he brought up Al Sadir's news, (this friend is a rigid Shi'ett), he said"this is crazy, we don't support him nor do we need this trouble), another comment he made was "Al Sadir took advantage of few ones who are home, unemployed, and have so much energy not knowing what t do with it, all he did was give them weapons, cigarettes and food, may be some pocket money too"
This friend of mine is not even a high school graduate but was right on target, very wise and knew what he was talking about.
I also contact my relatives in Baghdad, some of them are few younger than me ( I am 39), and the comments they make are the match for my analysis. Is the above good enough answer to your inquiry?

The potential of the change is there and I can envision it, people are to be enabled first before we make judgments on them and categorize them.
Zeyad and my self may be few Iraqis, but hey, let us be the pioneers in this new idiology, Iraqis need people like us to learn from, enough with using Islam in politics to justify terrorisim, we've had enough of that none sense.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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