Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Undoing the Brain Dead NATO
#1
E. Macron Wrote:Europe must bolster its capacity and willingness to act, both because it cannot rely eternally on an unpredictable United States, and because within NATO it is being hamstrung by unilateral action like that of Turkey in Syria.

....
Europe must become autonomous in terms of military strategy and capability
link

IMO it's very important news. You can't sack Turkey from NATO. So let's dismantle NATO and Turkey will be out of it by fact.

The obsolecy of this institution become more and more obvious every year. Turkey is the most obvious example. The US waging wars which all other members disagree with is another one.

And then, you have the natural evolution which leads to Europe's independence from the US for its defense.
Something just about everybody agrees with.

Putin looks upbeat at the idea. He thinks this will weaken the military in East Europe. He is mistaken because Europe is going to increase its own forces. And having local forces to protect the border will be more effective than americans who may not have the same motivation and the same rules of engagement.
Putin doesn't understand the increased economic power of east european countries and their ability to buy expensive weapons. This is a big change from 20 or even 10 years ago.

The disappearance of NATO will remove the biggest subject of russian nationalist paranoia. They see NATO as a second name for the US army where other members are merely mercenaries. And this US NATO is there to invade Russia. Proof being that they already invaded the Lithuanian, Lettonian and Estonian provinces of Russia.
Without NATO they will think that all these small countries will do their own defense alone without coordination and without helping each other. That's the nationalist thinking.
They are of course very far from reality.
Reply
#2
Trump Wrote:“It’s not right to be taken advantage of on NATO and also then to be taken advantage of on trade

What can I say.... sighhhhhh.... we, europeans are smarter. S5

'Very, very nasty': Trump clashes with Macron before NATO summit
Reply
#3
Quote:In sharp exchanges underlining discord in a transatlantic bloc hailed by backers as the most successful military pact in history, Trump demanded that Europe pay more for its collective defense and make concessions to U.S. interests on trade.

Perhaps it's time for the Euros to start paying more of their fair share.  After all, the US has sacrificed untold billions on Europe's behalf, when they needed it most. 

Personally I think the Euros are more than capable of defending themselves against either the Ruskies AND Islam.  Fortunately, Russia is more a paper tigre, with the exception of nuclear weapons.  They are a financial and economic basket case.  As for Islam, if the Euros don't come down hard on all this illegal immigration of Wacko Islamics, they are going to reap what they have been sowing. 

Quote:Macron, the French president, stood by comments he made last month describing NATO as suffering from a lack of strategic purpose akin to “brain death”, and criticized fellow NATO member Turkey, which he accused of working with Islamic State proxies

Frogs have always been the Queers of Euroland at least since the 1960s,  When I lived in Baumholder with my parents, France was a total joke with practically everyone, especially the Krauts.  I also worked as a waiter in the Baumholder Top Five NCO Club, and it was normal to see two French male soldiers dancing together like man and woman.  Everybody got a good laugh almost every evening.  As an old saying goes, "The Italians are Crazy and loving every minute of it.  The French are also Crazy, but are highly indignant about it."  That's why the Italians are my favorite Euros.  Oh, and every one of their automobiles seems to have a horn that has at least four-five notes.  Love those WAPs.

Incidentally, once France left NATO in an unwarranted huff, they should never been readmitted in 2009 IMO.  They are undependable, quarrelsome, cheap, and the laughing stock of Europe as a whole.  Since 99% of Americans have not lived in Europe as I have, they have no idea as to just how crazy they are.  And don't get me wrong, I really do like the French who live in the countryside.  But the city Frogs are not worth their weight in cow manure.  Spiteful

And as for Turkey, it is the bastard child that never should have been admitted as a full member.  When I lived in Germany, Turks were all over the place and the overwhelming majority of crime.  And to make things even worse, they are also primarily responsible for allowing millions of Islamic refugees to enter Europe.  Well Frau Merkle is also complicit as well. 

Fred Wrote:What can I say.... sighhhhhh.... we, europeans are smarter. S5

No, they were just great con artists, and have taken advantage of a free ride for too long.  Someone in the US is going to have to put an end to all this disproportionate, and obsolete, arrangement.  And that "Somebody" is probably going to be The Donald.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
Reply
#4
Finally at the NATO meeting, nothing happened.
Erdogan called Macron "Brain Dead" and Trump called Trudeau "Two Faced" but when serious discussion started, nothing meaningful was announced anymore.


JohnL Wrote:And that "Somebody" is probably going to be The Donald.
Yes the Donald has been talking about that for a while. But as with everything else he won't do anything other than rapeating that he's doing it. And at the end, you will believe that he did it.

I don't think that europeans played con artists to get american soldiers based in Germany. The americans decided to come and stay first. Then, yes we took advantage of it.
It's natural that european became independent with defense.

Russia is still the main threat. Islam is much worse and much more actual a threat than Russia, but it's not a military threat.
Russia would invade with tanks. Islam is invading with mosqes and migration. Classic military warfare won't do anything against Islam.

And concerning Islam, the worse ennemies are not the mullahs or the terrorists, but our governments and the useful idiots.

You Wrote:99% of Americans have not lived in Europe
but you haven't been in Europe for too long and it has changed.
About french soldiers dancing together... it's funny because there was a french movie in the 70's making fun of just that. S5
Reply
#5
(12-05-2019, 09:05 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...he won't do anything other than repeating that he's doing it. And at the end, you will believe that he did it.
Most of his negotiations have followed what he described in his biographies. He presets the stage as much as possible and works hard to make things work. Not everything works out, but he usually leaves possibilities for followup, all while fighting the media trying to disinform.

(12-05-2019, 09:05 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ....99% of Americans have not lived in Europe

No big deal. Believe it or not, but the world is getting smaller as technology expands, and the other side of the planet is just a click away. Many of us have visited, so we have a means to compare cultures, but living there just fills in more details of any one, small place. For example, in Amsterdam, no one uses window shades or blinds. As you walk the streets, it is like you are a voyeur. I guess if you lived there, you would see inside the same houses more often.
Reply
#6
WmL Wrote:o big deal. Believe it or not, but the world is getting smaller as technology expands, and the other side of the planet is just a click away. Many of us have visited, so we have a means to compare cultures, but living there just fills in more details of any one, small place

yes, you'r right. It's much easier than before to gather informations about other places of the world than before.
Yet, it's not the same as being there. And being there as a tourist is not the same as being really with the locals.
There gradiants in the reality that you can percieve. The problem with the internet is that you read a lot of stereotypes. And you never know to what extend it's true or not.
Reply
#7
It is only hard when you don't know the language - but even in The Netherlands the people in one side of the country speak a language the other side cannot understand, so it can't be just that. By culture, I mean walking through the streets in the evening and feeling like a voyeur because the Dutch don't use window shades, curtains, or blinds to keep their inside behavior to themselves. To really understand a place, one needs to see all the input that makes people what they are. News media is one part, but the daily nuances that permeate people's lives must be fully experienced to fully understand. On military bases, life may be centered on the PX, and the people only knw ther own shops and stores.

There are differences everywhere, even up close and personal, but what people individually say and think are easily posted online for a person on the other side of the planet to learn. And even better, the interchange of information goes both ways, and the host also learns about the visitor. Nothing is as good as being there - but it is much easier to visit from afar than it was.
Reply
#8
Since there is no Soviet Union breathing than the neck of the Euros, why not just put an end to NATO? After all, the Euros are more than capable of defending themselves,......correct?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
Reply
#9
(12-14-2019, 03:07 PM)John L Wrote: Since there is no Soviet Union breathing than the neck of the Euros, why not just put an end to NATO?  After all, the Euros are more than capable of defending themselves,......correct?

I guess: for the same reason it is worthwhile to keep a military force to deter invasion, or to get rid of "gun-free zones" so as not to attract criminals and evil-doers.
Reply
#10
JOhnL
I think so. Russia is a far cry from what the USSR was as military threat is concerned.
If they invade the Baltic states, they may cover the distance very quickly. But then, in the following days, their losses would be very heavy. They are not going to do this stupidity.
The Poles and the Lithuanians see the russians as the ennemies and clean their riffle every day in case they would come back.

I'm also sure that every other european countries would come to the rescue if Putin dares invade. They would because a russian invasion would threaten the EU. The EU is better a guaranty than NATO. NATO is a treaty and an obligation to help. The EU is a urge to help. That's why the EU is very important to peace in Europe. That's why Putin supports anti-EU movements.

We have nothing against americans, really. If you hear things, you can make sure it's from grumpy leftists, not the population. You are still welcome. Just not as necessary as it used to be.
Reply
#11
(12-15-2019, 07:24 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: You are still welcome. Just not as necessary as it used to be.

I believe that was the original intent all along, if I recall correctly.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
About Coronavirus - “Suddenly I begin to understand why Charlie gets so excited over taking a walk outside.”
Reply
#12
Trump floats expanding NATO to add Middle East

Just as I floated the idea that Turkey should leave NATO...

But, OK, that's Trump...
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Europe's Brain Dead Left Canuknucklehead 15 3,821 09-28-2011, 06:11 PM
Last Post: jt

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)