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Turkey invades Syria hours after Trump withdraws troops
#1
The US had 1000 troops in Kurdistan. As soon as Trump withdrew them, Turkey invaded.
It was predicted, announced and prepared.

Now Pence is talking with Erdogan. I wonder why.

IMO it's a very good thing that Trump decided to take no part in this mess any more. Enough american soldiers have died there uselessly.
He is leaving this poisonous gift to Putin. Putin has not had an experience as long and as bad as the Americans, so he thinks he made a good deal. Let's see if he will be as upbeat about it in ten years...

Erdogan's goal is to relocate 3.5 million syrian refugees. If he can't move them there and if the West doesn't agree with his military campaign, he will send them to Europe.  These Syrian refugees doesn't seem eager to return to a territory occupied by the Kurds so the Turks reconquer the land for them, with the help of the Syrian militias. It's unclear how closely these Syrian miloitia are linked to the ISIS. But if they ar not allied with Assad, nor with the Kurds, it means they are with someone else.

The Kurds held several hundreds of ISIS jihadist prisoner and several thousand memeber of their famillies.
All these folks are believed to be at risk of escaping, beeing freed by the pro-Turk militias or being simply abandonned by fleeing kurds. Some of them already escaped. Nobody knows how many.

The Kurds made a deal with Assad. For them Assad is better than the Turks.
Assads troops, backed by Russia are moving very fast into north east Syria where the Kurds used to be.
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#2
Quote:WH: Media Has Been Lying About Turkey    

(CNSNews.com) – Turkey was planning to attack Syria whether U.S. troops were there or not, so President Donald Trump’s decision to pull U.S. troops from Syria was not a green light to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to advance on Syria, White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley told Fox News on Thursday.

Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo are meeting with Erdogan today to discuss a ceasefire.    

During an interview with “America’s Newsroom,” Gidley accused the media of lying about the president greenlighting Erdogan to attack Syria.


“The media for so long has been lying about another topic, and it was Turkey saying that we had green lighted this advance by Turkey and President Erdogan. We clearly did not. The letter was released as well. Everyone has seen what President Trump warned President Erdogan about and said he would work to cripple their economy if they move forward with this and don't meet the conditions set, and of course, that is where we are today - crippling sanctions on Turkey,” Gidley said.

Erdogan is scheduled to visit the White House in November. When asked whether Erdogan has accepted the invitation, Gidley said, “If he hasn’t I’m not aware of that.”
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#3
Erdogan urges Islam. Is there any reason to think he is of a Western mindset? Turkey is not our ally. The Kurds are not our ally. The Kurds have never fought for anything beyond the land within their eye site. The MSM claims we owe allegiance to the Kurds. We do not. We gave them the tools, monetary assistance, and American heroes to show them how to eliminate terrorists from their land. It was in the Kurds best interest and the USA’s best interest to kill terrorists. The terrorists are gone. The USA’s interests are gone. Why should we continue to spill blood in Syria? Why should we acknowledge Turkey as an ally?
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#4
Let them go back to killing each other, we have our own sources of gas and oil and don`t need them for anything.
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#5
The Kurds live in southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria. After WWII a pact was formed to create a homeland called Kurdistan, but the idea was dropped, and the Kurds were left as minorities in many different countries. They've generally aligned with the US in most confrontations, but Turkey is our NATO ally and we have treaty obligations to support them.

This is truly a problem designed for the UN to solve, but that is a feckless group with no spine or honor.
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#6
And too, the Kurds are not a homogeneous group. The ones in Syria have a propensity to be Socialists.  But I'm not really up to date on them.  Too much going on with me right now.
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#7
WmL Wrote:Turkey is our NATO ally and we have treaty obligations to support them.

I wonder how longer Turkey will stay in NATO.
First, they were sacked from the F35 peogram, mainly because Erdogan turned to the Russians.
Then, the EU ban arm sales to Turkey. And now Trump said that he was ready for an military attack on Turkey if deemed necessary.

At some point they would have to face reality.
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#8
I never heard "military attack". What Trump talked about was extreme sanctions. With the Cease Fire in place, he will lift sanctions.
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#9
Here's more on the Syrian withdrawal, and it is a worthwhile read.

I've always been a supporter of the Kurds, but not the Marxist PKK, which has a pretty bad record in Syria.  The article is made up of ten sections which do a good job of explaining things at present.


Quote:10 Questions To Ask About Trump’s Removal Of Troops From Syria

The U.S. foreign policy establishment has gone into meltdown mode since President Trump announced last week a withdrawal of several dozen troops from a corridor in northern Syria. American forces had been there since 2014, joined with a Kurdish splinter group to fight the notorious Sunni Arab terrorist organization, the Islamic State (ISIS).

Trump made his decision after a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, but it was a long time coming. The Turks have been critical of U.S. support for an armed Kurdish organization they have considered the country’s most serious national security threat for five years.  Trump’s move then should be seen in the context of his efforts to undo Obama administration policies, particularly its initiative to tilt away from traditional U.S. allies, like Turkey, and toward the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The bipartisan anti-Trump din (amplified by prominent GOP lawmakers) denouncing the withdrawal has obscured not only Obama’s disastrous 2014 decision to team with a terrorist organization at war with a NATO member but also basic facts about the ongoing conflict, the region, and the significant actors. The following ten questions are designed to illuminate the central issues for U.S. policy.

U.S. Troops Leaving Syria For Western Iraq As Kurds Pull Back Amid Cease-Fire | NBC Nightly News
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#10
JOhnL, it's talking about the Undoing of Obama's Legacy so, sure, it is a worthwhile read.
It explains again how everything Trump does is good and everything Obama did was bad.

Of course, it's BS because the troops in this region were sent by Junior and those who stayed there and eventualy moved into Syria under Obama were just a continuation.
Junior also allied with Kurds (thereforre with the PKK, forcibly according to the article) to fight against Saddam Hussein (how funny how everybody already forgot him), then al-Qaida and finaly ISIS.
Obama never picked the PKK, the terrorist organisation, as an ally.
First it wasn't OBama but the US in agreement with other Western powers such as UK, France etc...

Second it's not the Kurds/PKK who were hired by Obama to help the americans fight against ISIS. The reality is that the US came to help the kurds to fight ISIS. It was their land and it was logical to help them defeat ISIS.

Then, the same collaboration with terrrorist listed PKK continued with Trump. But then, working for 3 years with a terrorist organisation is not bad anymore because it's Trump, not Obama.

Now it's a good thing that Trump removed the few dozen american soldiers from this place. ISIS is by and large defeated. There is no need for us, I mean the West, to stay there. We can let them kill each others quietly without us being worried.

That's what Turkey is doing in the pure M-E tradition. Erdogan is a traditional muslim, and he means it. He didn't need to attack the kurds. They didn't attack Turkey at the time Erdogan decided to invade.

He needed to relocate 3 million Syrian refugees. Because these refugees were not kurds they couldn't live in a land ruled by kurds. That's M-E law. You must do a violent attack to dislodge the kurdish power first.
In any other place of the world some diplomatic solution wpould be found peacefully for the returnees, but not there.

In the article, at some point you read the question "why does Erdogan hate kurds". Stupid question. Because it's the M-E and you have to hate muslims from other ethnic groups.
But I'm pretty sure very few kurds voted for him.
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#11
They didn't wait:
Turkish and Assad's forces clashing against each other already.

The kurds are very smart: Instead of dying in an uneven fight, they let others to do it.
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