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2020 Impeachment Circus On The Way.
#61
JohnL Wrote:Fred, in the world of politics that happens all the time.
WmLambert Wrote:John was correct calling it "hardball."

It's correct to do so when there is justification to do so.

Here Trump blocked the money to pressure Ukraine into inquiring on Hunter Biden. This could have urged Ukraine to forge proofs against Biden to make sure to get the money.

Trump didn't stop the funding because he deemed Ukraine too corrupt. He did this blackmail because he thought Ukraine was that corrupt after Ukraine elected a professional comedian like him as president. He didn't dare doing so with Petroshenko who was a real, successful businessman.
Then he released the money as soon as s**t hit the fan.

He also didn't just suspended the funding after a phone call. He sent his lawyer Giulliani and another one, there. And under Guilliani's advice, who has no political mandate, he sacked the US ambassador to Ukraine.

One more worsening ciircumstance is that it's military funds in a country still at war with separatists. Not funds for renewable energies or something. It has consequences and for the stability of Ukraine and for the geopolitcial strategy of the US.

Now look at the arguments from Trump's lawyers team:
Empty!
Only the process is flawed,... structurally deficient and other hubbub of that effect.
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#62
Aww
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
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#63
(01-20-2020, 05:59 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...Trump blocked the money to pressure Ukraine into inquiring on Hunter Biden. This could have urged Ukraine  to forge proofs against Biden to make sure to get the money.

The telephone conversation did nothing of the kind. It was clearly stated that Ukraine could help with info on 2016 attacks against the USA elections. Biden was also mentioned as a loose cannon who needed scrutiny. Official testimony proved that The withholding of funds was not an issue. You must be referring to the imaginary "parody" transcript that Schiff tried to sell as real. That was a lie. Do not do us a disservice by pretending he was speaking truth.

(01-20-2020, 05:59 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...Trump didn't stop the funding because he deemed Ukraine too corrupt. He did this blackmail because he thought Ukraine was that corrupt after Ukraine elected a professional comedian like him as president. He didn't dare doing so with Petroshenko who was a real, successful businessman.
Then he released the money as soon as s**t hit the fan.

He also didn't just suspended the funding after a phone call. He sent his lawyer Giulliani and another one, there. And under Guilliani's advice, who has no political mandate, he sacked the US ambassador to Ukraine.

The new Ukraine president ran as an anti-corruption candidate, not as a comedian. You must be confusing him with the UK, not The Ukraine. All of Trump's contacts with him were about reinforcing that pledge. BTW, Giulliani had as much political "mandate" as any Ambassador or other envoy, because Trump appointed him to the mission. Want to go through history for all the appointed officials doing a President's missions?

(01-20-2020, 05:59 PM)Fredledinguhttps://ai-jane.org/images/smilies/gah.gife Wrote: ...One more worsening circumstance is that it's military funds in a country still at war with separatists. Not funds for renewable energies or something. It has consequences and for the stability of Ukraine and for the geopolitical strategy of the US.

Again 180° out of phase. Trump is the President who gave Ukraine the lethal military aid needed to stop Russia's incursion. It was Obama who gave blankets and candy bars. As has been proved in the House Impeachment witnesses' statements, no problems with funding was noticed at all.

(01-20-2020, 05:59 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...Now look at the arguments from Trump's lawyers team:
Empty!
Only the process is flawed,... structurally deficient and other hubbub of that effect.

Decent article almost all supporting the Trump position.
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#64
WmLambert Wrote:Decent article almost all supporting the Trump position.
Yes. It spoke nothing about what you said. Not a single of your argument.
So if RTrump's legal team is not making arguments against these points it means these points are true.

WmLambert Wrote:The new Ukraine president ran as an anti-corruption candidate, not as a comedian.

Could you explain the difference. I don't see any.
Any president who poses as an anti-corruption candidate is a comedian.
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#65
Did you actually look at your own link?

The big picture is there are no crimes claimed, and no Constitutional crisis.
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#66
Of course. Trump's team is only attacking the form. They don't even try to deny the facts.
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