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Funding The Wall
(02-11-2020, 01:07 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: JohnWho
Typical leftist thinking: "We are going to spend billion but in the long term it will benefit the economy. So it doesn't cost you anything." LOL

Only talking about limiting people coming into the country illegally and their subsequent cost to the American taxpayers. A "wall" and other limiting factors will indeed pay for themselves in overall savings, your ignorance notwithstanding.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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Now that Trump is in post-impeachment mode, he can also look at anchor-baby laws that return to sanity. The original intent through most of our nation's history was that citizenship isn't free, one must earn that status. We can also start using technology to get rid of illegals, whether they've been here for years, or not. Once the loopholes are closed, the illegal press should slow of its own accord.
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JohnWho I'm not ignorant. I know that useful infrastructures are paying off in the long term. And I know that this wall is useful because illegal immigration is always a problem.

Yet Trump is dishonnest becaus he first he said that the state of Mexico will fund the wall.
He knew it was BS but he nevertheless tried to link fund the Wall with the condition of the trade deal with Mexico. Mexican negotiators promtly and flatly rejected such idea. They even rejected to mention it symbolically in the text.

Now Trump is coming back saying that Mexicans will pay it back with remittance.
A word nobody understands, yet gives the impression that, with time, mexicans will be giving money, perhaps indirectly, for this wall.
A remittance is money paid or transferred as payment for a debt, a liability or a purchase. In this context, it's of course, one more lie.

By argumenting the long term benefit, you let voters and taxpayers believe that they don't pay it now, that you get it free or, for the less stupid ones, that it will be paid back quickly.
The truth is that government projects start to pay off only after 20 years at least, when there is a tangible way to count revenues and costs. For the Wall, the cost is known but revenues are known too and it's zero. The benefits are societal and long term savings which can't be quantified. So it's not in a foreseeable future.

The reality is that trade deal or not, remittance or not, no matter what Trump is saying, the wall is being build with your money.



WmL Wrote:The original intent through most of our nation's history was that citizenship isn't free, one must earn that status.

It's funny because actually, US citizenship is not only completely free but it's also given to you without your consent. The only thing to do is to be born in the US.
And then, want it or not, you are US citizen.

Even better: There are people in Europe who were born in the US, when their parents were doing a trip there or something, then never came back to the US. They never knew they were US citizen. They don't even speak english. Then recently, they were sent IRS forms! How sweat.
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(12-16-2019, 11:05 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: It's funny because actually, US citizenship is not only completely free but it's also given to you without your consent. The only thing to do is to be born in the US.
And then, want it or not, you are US citizen.

Fred, are there any other countries that don't award citizenship to those born in that country?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Socialism always begins with a universal vision for the brotherhood of man and ends with people having to eat their own pets.”
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JohnL, I don't know.
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As I understand it, most countries only allow citizenship if citizens give birth (jus sanguinis). That is also how our Constitution puts it, regardless of how one Justice noted in the footnotes in a dissenting opinion that anchor babies are citizens (jus soli) due to the penumbra of a shadow of the law. Nothing says it exists, but the Justice says to read between the lines.
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