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jamahl Kaschoggi
#1
jamahl Kaschoggi was a Muslim Brotherhood reporter hired as a stringer for the Washington Post. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmani is a millennium new-ager who wants to bring his country into the twenty-first century. Saudi Arabia is considered the official custodian of Islam, being the nation of Mecca and Medina. Wahhabi Islam is the home of Terrorism, and much of his family is Wahhabi. Bin Salmani is out to get rid of Wahhabism. He has already allowed women to drive, and have other rights. He placed many of his Wahhabli relations under arrest and confiscated much of their money. There is no love lost there. He inveigled much of Hollywood and Computerland to invest on his new city based on high-tech and modernity.

The Jamahl Kaschoggi incident has done more to stop his campaign to stop terrorism out of Iran and Wahhabism out of his own country. Nothing would be stupider for him to do. I suspect a false-flag operation. At the same time, his philosophical war against Jihadi Wahhabism is our nation's best entry into sanity in the Middle East. but we have billions of dollars of trade wrapped up in his continuing to lead. None of this is out in the MSM, but I hope Limbaugh's hour-long interview with Hannity later tonight will spark some common sense against all the calls for the Prince's condemnation. So far, only Trump is willing to understand this could be a false-flag betrayal of bin Salmani.
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#2
Its going to be interesting to see how this all works out for all sides.
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Have a Gneiss Day!
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#3
The Saudis will convict several people, behead them, and all will be forgotten.
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#4
Quote:Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmani is a millennium new-ager

Wow. This is the funniest thing I've read in years!

MbS is a Wahhabi scion who has delusions of grandeur and managed to add to his already ... hmm ... militant Islam background also a good portion of mafia attitudes, perhaps via his friendship with Trump's son in law. Perhaps Jared told MbS about how they processed Jimmy Hoffa and this impressed the Saudi king-to-be?

And MbS is also a notorious screwup -- everything he tries, goes wrong. Just like this case.

Yes, of course, Trump will try to whitewash him, and this is now a rare occurrence when we should be thankful for the existence for the Democrats... this is a great attack opportunity. And of course for Erdogan as well, he is into settling scores mood now. Not talking about the Qataris.... did you notice their claim that the Saudi special forces not just murdered the journalist, not just dismembered him, but also ate him? (no, I do not believe this part, the journalist was not Halal... or was he? S6 )

Regardless, my prediction is that Trump will stick by MdS, and will provide some lame explanations why he is a good guy after all... enough to keep the faithful base quiet..... after all, MdS is not just Jared's buddy, he also represents the regime that is very important for the US well-being. And yes, if the Saudi produce the body and MdS starts eating the parts in public, this will not diminish Trump's support any... he will rationalize this somehow.

But this may lead to very interesting developments in the future... perhaps Mueller would start looking at Trump-Saudi connections.
Sanders 2020

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#5
PS> 

Erdogan is supposed to make a report on what has actually happened in the Saudi Embassy tomorrow... this is going to be fun! 

Erdogan has no love for the Saudis and in fact is in a proxy war relations with them -- he bet on Qatar -- so he will do his best to sink MbS.  And he probably has some hard data to offer.


What he will actually say is not known, but the leaks in Turkish press indicate that the journalist was given a chance to talk to MbS on the phone... and was given an offer he was not supposed to refuse : return to the Saudi Arabia peacefully.  Well, he chose to refuse.

Quote:Yeni Şafak’ın elde ettiği yeni bilgilere göre Kaşıkçı, Konsolosluk binasına girdiğinde içerideki ekip tarafından alıkonuldu. Ardından Kaşıkçı, telefonda Veliaht Prens Muhammed bin Selman’la görüştürüldü. Selman telefonda Kaşıkçı’yı Riyad’a dönmesi için ikna etmeye çalıştı. Ancak Kaşıkçı bunu reddetti. Ülkesine dönmesi halinde tutuklanıp öldürüleceğini düşündüğü için Selman’ın teklifini reddeden Kaşıkçı, görüşmenin sonlandırılmasının ardından suikast ekibince öldürüldü.

The official Saudi version which is currently endorsed by Trump is somewhat different... the journalist went berserk and violently attacked the 15-member team of MbS' bodyguards ... this is Trump-believable, indeed a 60-year old experienced heavyweight had excellent chances of beating up a bunch of badly trained juniors.  Trump surely could  have wrestled them all down.

But Kaschoggi failed and ended up in pieces.  RIP.  Bad carma, as they say in Islam. S4
Sanders 2020

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#6
(10-22-2018, 03:32 PM)mv Wrote:
Quote:Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmani is a millennium new-ager

Wow. This is the funniest thing I've read in years!

MbS is a Wahhabi scion who has delusions of grandeur and managed to add to his  already ... hmm ... militant Islam background  also a good portion of mafia attitudes, perhaps via his friendship with Trump's son in law. Perhaps Jared told MbS about how they processed Jimmy Hoffa and this impressed the Saudi king-to-be?

And MbS is also a notorious screwup -- everything he tries, goes wrong.  Just like this case.

Yes, of course, Trump will try to whitewash him, and this is now a rare occurrence when we should be thankful for the existence for the Democrats... this is a great attack opportunity.  And of course for Erdogan as well, he is into settling scores mood now. Not talking about the Qataris.... did you notice their claim that the Saudi special forces not just murdered the journalist, not just dismembered him, but also ate him? (no, I do not believe this part, the journalist was not Halal... or was he? S6 )

Regardless, my prediction is that Trump will stick by MdS, and will provide some lame explanations why he is a good guy after all... enough to keep the faithful base quiet..... after all, MdS is not just Jared's buddy, he also represents the regime that is very important for the US well-being.  And yes, if the Saudi produce the body and MdS starts eating the parts in public, this will not diminish Trump's support any... he will rationalize this somehow.

But this may lead to very interesting developments in the future... perhaps Mueller would start looking at Trump-Saudi connections.

mv You mist be a troll. Nothing about this incident is about Trump, except for his correct response - and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmani is certainly no Wahabbist. ...And he hasn't screwed up as he got Silicon Valley and Hollywood to invest in his idea to build a high-tech nation with a High-tech culture free of Wahabbism. It is the Wahabbi Jihadist who benefit from this action in Turkey - not the Crown Prince, which makes a false-flag operation do probable.
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#7
Troll ? LOL. Just because I prefer truth to Pravda ... S6

Quote:and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmani is certainly no Wahabbist

OMG.. such ignorance in the days of Internet is no longer cute, only obscene. Do you even know what Wahabbis are ?
It is a form of Islam that happens to be the ruling form in Saudi Arabia. While it is not known what is the % of the Wahabbi Muslims in KSA, it is well known that the members of the Royal family are all Wahabbi, and their link to Abd Al Wahhab is historic. Most of the powerful families in KSA are Wahhabi even if they do not come from Najd like the royals do... for example, bin Ladens!

So, yes, MbS is most definitely a Wahabbi, and shall he break this connection he will cease to be a candidate for the throne... But this is unimportant -- people can be of any religion, Christian, Muslim, Buddhists, Protestants, etc, and still be good people .. or not. MbS is first and foremost a thug, not a Wahhabi.

Quote:Nothing about this incident is about Trump, except for his correct response

LOL... which was the correct response ? the one when he promised consequences *if there is a proof that the journalist is indeed dead* .. or the later one where he accepted the words of his good friend MbS that the journalist went berserk on the security people ?

Never mind. Trump is actually in a difficult situation. He cannot do anything against KSA, since this happens to be one of very few states crucial to the US survival. So he will try to dance his way out.. somehow... and at the very least it should be quite entertaining to watch.
Sanders 2020

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#8
May he rest in pieces.
The true purpose of democracy is not to select the best leaders — a clearly debatable obligation — but to facilitate the prompt and peaceful removal of obviously bad ones. 
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#9
...So, yes, MbS is most definitely a Wahabbi,  and shall he break this connection he will cease to be a candidate for the throne...
[/quote]

Then you say he is a thug and not a Wahabbist.

No. He grew up in the Western World and realized his country is third rate. Only Trump realizes that he wants to stop the Wanabbi Islamists because doing do sends the signal to all the Islam world that Iran and terrorism is no longer acceptable. Saudi Arabia is the keeper of the faith. Whatever they say, the Ialam world must follow. When he arrested so many Wahabbi family members and stripped them of their money, he mde many enemies. Does only Trump realize the terrorists need to get rid of the Crown Prince, and putting the crosshairs on his chest with this atrocity does nothing at all but threaten his authority?
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#10
To correct the nonsense :

Wahhabi is a religion, a branch of Islam.
Wahhabist is a media-invented term with uncertain meaning, perhaps meant to denote members of the religion that are bad guys.
Every royal family is a Wahhabi, including the prince and his victims.
(for the record : i have no love for any of them)
Most of the upper and middle class Saudis are Wahhabi too, including Osama Bin Laden and the journalist.
(for the record : i have no love for any of them)
Yes, the prince got Western Education and so did many of rich Saudis... zero relevance.
Yes, the prince spent some money on media and some -- much larger -- money on arm purchases from the US ...the relevance is that this made him more valuable to Trump, not to the humanity. S6

Quote:Does only Trump realize the terrorists need to get rid of the Crown Prince


What terrorists? Would you kindly give a hint as to who they are?

If you are thinking about other royals, whom he robbed and tortured, then sure they want to get rid of him!
(No sympathy for them either).
But this is human desire for revenge, not terrorism!

If you are thinking about Erdogan -- who is on the warpath obviously -- he has pragmatic reasons.

Oh, I got you .. you are thinking about Euros, Wash Post, WSJ and a growing number of people in the US Senate ... yeah, those are terrorists indeed! S6

Anyway, I'm withdrawing the THUG term, I have a better analogy ... think of Caligula. Another scion of a powerful family that went a bit too far.
Sanders 2020

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#11
A very good source on Jamal Khashoggi by John R. Bradley

Quote:,,,The fate of Khashoggi has at least provoked global outrage, but it’s for all the wrong reasons. We are told he was a liberal, Saudi progressive voice fighting for freedom and democracy, and a martyr who paid the ultimate price for telling the truth to power. This is not just wrong, but distracts us from understanding what the incident tells us about the internal power dynamics of a kingdom going through an unprecedented period of upheaval. ...In truth, Khashoggi never had much time for western-style pluralistic democracy. In the 1970s he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists to rid the Islamic world of western influence. He was a political Islamist until the end, recently praising the Muslim Brotherhood in the Washington Post. ...Khashoggi had this undeserved status in the West because of the publicity surrounding his sacking as editor of the Saudi daily Al Watan back in 2003. (I broke the news of his removal for Reuters. I’d worked alongside Khashoggi at the Saudi daily Arab News during the preceding years.) He was dismissed because he allowed a columnist to criticise an Islamist thinker considered to be the founding father of Wahhabism. Thus, overnight, Khashoggi became known as a liberal progressive.

...Khashoggi had dirt on Saudi links to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. He had befriended Osama bin Laden in the 1980s and 1990s in Afghanistan and Sudan while championing his jihad against the Soviets in dispatches. At that same time, he was employed by the Saudi intelligence services to try to persuade bin Laden to make peace with the Saudi royal family. ...Khashoggi dissociated himself from bin Laden after 9/11 (which Khashoggi and I watched unfold together in the Arab News office in Jeddah).  

...The West has been fawning over bin Salman. But how now to overlook what seems to be a brazen Mafia-style murder?

...
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#12
Yes, this is reasonably accurate.

Lemme however notice that being friendly with bin Laden is 1980s and 1990s was not much of sin, and a kingdom going through an unprecedented period of upheaval ... well, this is relative.. KSA is surely less stable today than it used to be, but it may become much less stable yet before long.

Erdogan himself is very careful not to accuse MbS directly and not to call for his dismissal.... but the Turkish journalists that typically echo Erdogan's position are not so shy with promises of a bloody mess in KSA shall it fail to get rid of MbS. And they make it pretty clear that MbZ is also a target... albeit I doubt Erdogan has much of change to get him too.
Sanders 2020

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#13
LOL.

It may be that killing journalists in gruesome ways is just not a bad thing to do. The latest from Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...archy.html

Title/Summary :

Quote:Saudi King 'will have Crown Prince REPLACED to restore the credibility of the monarchy' after his disastrous handling of the Khashoggi murder

So, naturally I looked inside... Saudis capitulated already?

Inside:

Quote:Saudi Arabia's King could have his Crown Prince son replaced to restore the credibility of the monarchy amid turmoil over the Jamal Khashoggi murder, Britain's former defence attaché to the kingdom has claimed.

heck, i thought WILL and COULD are not exactly synonyms? Oh, British English, perhaps, and Modern Journalism, which should be rewarded with chainsaws.

--

Anyway, the Saudis now admit that the murder was premeditated .. this is the 4th major theory from them... and this means that some heads will roll in the kingdom ... maybe even enough heads that no one notices the Prince escaping the trouble?

There is really a very simple answer (for the 5th major theory): admit that the murder was ordered by foreign interests and put all the blame on the orangehead ... the moment this theory comes out, nobody would think about the Prince anymore.
Sanders 2020

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#14
(10-25-2018, 02:56 PM)mv Wrote: There is really a very simple answer (for the 5th major theory):  admit that the murder was ordered by foreign interests and put all the blame on the orangehead ... the moment this theory comes out, nobody would think about the Prince anymore.

CNN and MSNBC would go for that for sure!
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#15
Not only, don't forget NYT, WSJ, and most surely WashPost, and .. and ..

Anyway, it seems that the story is over for now. Erdogan was offered 5 silver coins (that is 5 billions USD) and he rejected the offer... but he is taking 30 silvers plus some not yet certain goodies, perhaps something in Syria and a few heads of Gulen supporters living in KSA.

Caligula lives to strike another day ... and unless I get his mentality totally wrong, he has a score to settle with Erdogan. And the orangehead is fine, especially with the mail bomb stories dominating the news.
Sanders 2020

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