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Syria
#1
Are we going to war in Syria?  What is the motivation of the policy-makers who are pro-war?
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#2
(04-11-2018, 11:51 PM)Anonymous24 Wrote: Are we going to war in Syria?  What is the motivation of the policy-makers who are pro-war?

I certainly hope not.  In my opinion, we need to be disengaging from more military bases around the world.  

The biggest problem here is that The Donald has an MO of gesturing, posturing, and hurling threats as an opening gambit.  Then he goes for the deal.  This seems to work with domestic policy, but for foreign affairs, this can be very dangerous.  

As I stated here, Russia suffers from cultural paranoia.  They believe Everyone is out to get them, so they counter in order to show strength.  If we were invaded as many times as they have, we'd probably be pretty much the same.  

Remember, the US and the EU each invests right at ten times the amount on defense than the Russians do.  They know it and can't hope to keep up, because their economy would crash.  That's why Syria is so important to them: it allows them to have a major naval base in the Med. And they have been rubbing up against Turkey in order to have free access from their Black Sea fleet.

The REAL problem is China.  That's the real enemy for the future.  And Russia is in an alliance of convenience with PRC.  She knows that Chinese are pouring over the mutual border, and will soon have millions of Chinese citizens occupying Siberia.  Lake Baikal territory is quickly being overrun by Chinese, who will almost certainly claim it when china finally finishes pushing against Japan, Korea, the US, and other allies to the east.  

Are Russia and China Preparing for War?

China has already moved a good portion of its mobile ICBMs along the Russian border, and the excuse is that they are there in order to have easier access to North America.  While this may be true, All of Russian targets lie open to them as well.  And don't think Russia isn't fully aware of it.  I still believe that China and Russia will be at war with each other in the future.  China really wants Siberia, and they are going to continue infiltrating it as long as they can get away with it. Then there will be a major war between the two.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#3
Not everybody on the right is happy with Trump's posturing and threats regarding the latest nerve agent attack in Syria. And I confess that I fail to see what Syria would gain by using those agents. Not one of the gas attacks of late have been positively identified as coming from the regime. Furthermore, ever since Uncle Saddam shipped his nerve agents to Syria in 2003, it has been stockpiles in just about every corner of the country. So, who doesn't have their share, with a lot of it being artillery gas ammunition?

Tucker Carlson is not impressed. He wants to see the real evidence before committing.

War DrumsS2C & Media Hungry for SYRIA Strike




And Paul Joseph Watson is literally having a conniption.

ANOTHER STUPID F**KING WAR


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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#4
It is the President's job to be satisfied by the evidence and make the decision whether to use our nation's military assets to punish a regime that repeatedly defies the international prohibition against using chemical weapons such as chlorine and nerve gas. Tucker Carlson does not have to be satisfied. No one elected him.

A year ago, 59 cruise missiles were launched against the airfield where the planes took off from that used chemical weapons against a populated area. This time, ten times as many cruise missiles should be used, or some combination with bombs dropped by fighter-bombers. Many military airfields should be targeted, and naval targets where military supplies are being brought into Syria. Also an effort should be made to directly attack Assad himself, personally. Even if we miss him, it should have the kind of effect it had on Moammar Khadafy--who greatly amended his behavior after the attempt was made to take him out.

The Russians expect that there will be naval targets. There are reports that their ships are heading out to sea, away from Syrian ports. Putin may talk tough, but he knows who has the real firepower.

We may deplore the necessity for war. But there will be far more warfare if we do not act decisively to deter the bad actors like Assad, Hezbollah, Russia, and Iran. If we are too reluctant to apply an ounce of prevention, there absolutely will be a need for a pound of cure--and that in the very near future.
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#5
Thanks John and Ron, that was very informative!
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#6
Last night, the U.S., France, and the U.K. launched attacks on Assad's chemical weapons facilities--where they are made and stored. Also targeted were several airbases, probably by cruise missiles taking out the SAM missile sites located at air bases, to prepare the way for the B-1 bombers and other aircraft. Intelligence provided by Israel helped them locate the chemical weapons facilities. Over 100 Tomahawk cruise missiles were said to be used, plus B-1 bombers and F-35 fighters. U.S fighters were said to chase off two Russian fighters that encroached in airspace over the area in northern Syria where U.S. ground forces are continuing their efforts to destroy ISIS. The U.S. planes fired flares at the Russian fighters, and engaged in the kind of aggressive show of force that demonstrates a willingness to open fire if they do not leave.
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#7
I'm still waiting on positive proof.   I'm a firm believer in "Doveryai, no proveryai"(trust but verify) as president Reagan used to say often.  

Look, I am a firm believer in doing what we say we are going to do.  But I still want solid proof that Syria did this.  And especially on this recent attack, there is no logical reason for the Syrians to do this.  They were already in control of the city, with only that small enclave left to retake.  They had already allowed the rebel groups to board buses and leave peacefully.  Only one rebel group chose to remain.  And only that group would have any reason to do this, as in propaganda value.  With Syria, this would be a Lose-Lose proposition.  

Furthermore, I clearly recall the "Gulf of Tonkin" action, and even the 1898 sinking of the USS Maine in Havana harbor.  Both were lies, contrived by both Democrats(LBJ), and Republicans(Mckinley), who used them as a pretext for war.  In other words, I don't trust Big Government, whether it is the Democrat herd, or the Republican herd.  

I want to see proof from a neutral party before I throw my weight behind this.  There is more than a shooting war at stake here.  The last thing we need to do is get into a nuclear exchange over mistakes.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#8
(04-14-2018, 08:57 AM)John L Wrote: ...
I want to see proof from a neutral party before I throw my weight behind this.

I think the giveaway point was what was targeted. Kerry and Obama bragged about not needing to enforce crossing the red line, because all of Assad's chemical weapons were destroyed. The facilities we destroyed were storage of precursors and chemical weapons, and design facilities where new chemicals were made. Knowing they were there was proof that the agreement was not held to. Best to get rid of it before given to Iran.
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#9
(04-15-2018, 07:16 PM)WmLambert Wrote:
(04-14-2018, 08:57 AM)John L Wrote: ...
I want to see proof from a neutral party before I throw my weight behind this.

I think the giveaway point was what was targeted. Kerry and Obama bragged about not needing to enforce crossing the red line, because all of Assad's chemical weapons were destroyed. The facilities we destroyed were storage of precursors and chemical weapons, and design facilities where new chemicals were made. Knowing they were there was proof that the agreement was not held to. Best to get rid of it before given to Iran.

Excuse me, but somehow I thought this was about the killing of innocent civilians with chemical agents, and who should be punished for all this. I'm talking about the former, not the later. I still want proof of who did it, and to my sense of logic, the only ones with a clear motive are some of the Syrian rebels, who are getting off on all this. Do you not disagree?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#10
(04-15-2018, 07:49 PM)John L Wrote: ...I thought this was about the killing of innocent civilians with chemical agents, and who should be punished for all this.  I'm talking about the former, not the later. I still want proof of who did it, and to my sense of logic, the only ones with a clear motive are some of the Syrian rebels, who are getting off on all this.   Do you not disagree?

The real threat is to the Kurds, Christians, and Israelis who may be targeted with Syrian chemical weapons that they promised had been eliminated. With the unmarked billions that Obama gave Iran, they can afford everything they want to wreak havoc on their enemies. You can't believe this is all about the innocents slaughtered to prove the chemicals' existence? It is far more than that. Revenge for the victims lend a moral tone - but the future is at stake. That town that was attacked with gas was the last rebel-held stronghold, so it wasn't taken out for no reason. It was done as a display piece for future sales.

You can't really believe that we didn't prove the existence of the targets before taking them out? You also can't expect our ways and sources to be exposed for your edification? You're not going to get that proof. Maybe ten years from now, retired SEALS and undercover personnel may write their memoirs, but the other side will still never admit anything.
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#11
Tell me BILL, if a Jackass did this, would you be defending all this activity?  The answer of course is not only no, but Hell No!  You wouldn't hesitate to condemn the other side for such behavior.  Could it possibly be that Your Herd is doing this now?  Does your herd ever do anything that you don't approve?

(04-15-2018, 08:25 PM)WmLambert Wrote: You can't really believe that we didn't prove the existence of the targets before taking them out? You also can't expect our ways and sources to be exposed for your edification? You're not going to get that proof. Maybe ten years from now, retired SEALS and undercover personnel may write their memoirs, but the other side will still never admit anything.

Doveryai, no proveryai Bill.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#12
Of course I for one would support any president doing what Trump has done in upholding international law. If that Manchurian candidate Obama had enforced that "red line" of his, I would have given him credit for doing the right thing. But he didn't, and Trump did.
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#13
(04-15-2018, 08:42 PM)John L Wrote: ...Could it possibly be that Your Herd is doing this now?  Does your herd ever do anything that you don't approve?

I sure wish you would drop the insipid attempt to get a rise out of me by constantly insinuating i only like GOP and forgive them anything. You should know better by now, and if you don't its because you speed read and come up with false conclusions.

My point was that the good guys in our intel agencies, and in France and the UK say they have proof Syria violated the international prohibition against chem warfare. Since chlorine decays quickly and Russia has been obstructing any outside investigators from forensic examination. It is a done deal in my mind that Assad, and by extension, Russia and Iran, are trying to loosen the international disapproval of such attacks. Also in my mind, a lead-in for Iran to use WMD against Israel.

I also look to the lower ranks who stand behind Trump in this. As you do know, us having proof never means we can blithely explain who gave it to us and how we have that proof. Do you want them to face the same fate as the Pakistani doctor who gave up bin Laden? It sounds like you do. I don't.

I have a real affinity to the intel agents in the field. The resurrection of Humint was the one real good thing that Bush 43 started. We can't squander who we have now. It will take decades to build up to the point we need, after what Clinton did to them. Obama continued the Clinton attempt to get rid of Humint, but the Intel agencies saw that one coming and did their best to keep their people safe. Now we have a president who is not only invested to reestablish Humint, but is actually listening to them.

What you think that has to do with party politics is wrong-headed.
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#14
Looks like the OPCW is reporting nothing but chlorine found, William as usual doesn't know sh.it but remains a good lackey for the liars in the US federal state. All William knows are the fantasies in between his ears. No one obstructed anyone anytime, anywhere in Syria to discern facts.

Re-read the stupid shit above, then read about the actual findings. US pr is for lemmings.

There's more evidence US backed Sunni jihadis have been using chemicals for a false flag deal to get patriotic USA robots like William and his brother Ron to bray to their nanny state to go do jihad for jihadists! Exactly what the west and Israel have been trying in Syria for years now.
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/no-...cw-report/

Go Syria, screw the jihadists and the western murderers backing them.
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#15
Chlorine was the original chemical weapon of mass destruction (used in WWI) that was the first chemical cited in the international laws banning chemical weapons. You do not seem to be educated in history, Palladin.
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#16
Not what the topic was when you went into your self righteous "we must kill all bad people" mode back when Trump murdered innocent Syrians and helped jihadis. Besides, the USA used chlorine in your WWI case and supplied Saddam Hussein with Sarin and VX gas, remember Ron?? We do this awful shit, too!

The issue then by that self righteous Nicky Haley was that Sarin Gas was used, that they had proof of it, etc. Which was another outright lie by an American official to justify we need to kill Uncle Sam's enemies who almost never are enemies of the people of this nation, our way of life or constitution..

Plus, if you study the evidence in detail it is MUCH more likely the US allied Sunni jihadis in Syria are who used the chlorine that was used. Assad had absolutely 0 logic for it, he was and is prevailing w/o antagonizing anyone else.

The jihadis on the other hand specifically in Ghouta were desperate as hellfire to turn the tide, so faking a gas attack was their last hurrah and it failed.

They got their Sunni jihadi / USA/Israeli/Saudi allied asses run out of there and it's happening in the Daraa province now as well notwithstanding Israel attacking the Syrian side time and time again.

Read something other than nonsense lies from Uncle Sam for a change. Stop being a robot for the big lie.

Even this NYT article, pro USA view in this article makes the case the Sarin Turks claim they did find up north earlier in the conflict may have been from a warehouse ****held by USA/Israeli/Turk/Saudi allied Sunni jihadists**** . That's an American centric view admits that. Yet you wanted to kill innocent Syrians for it. You want to kill all bad people even when they aren't bad and God saves the ungodly, how about that?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/world...syria.html

Assad would have used this stuff earlier when Russia didn't fall in with them, not since then and no one with a brain should not fail to understand why not now. Nicky Haley is a liar. So are almost all US security spokesmen. Learn to use some wisdom beyond "everything an American says is Gospel".

Here are some evidences the Sunni jihadist allies of the USA coalition of freaks are who was doing all these chemical attacks:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/17/how...stockpile/


http://archive.is/wc2XY

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-0...t-question

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...sads-regi/

https://www.dw.com/en/is-assad-to-blame-...a-38330217

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jih...my-aleppo/

https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-new...er-u-s-war

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/201...president/


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/world...mical.html

Your enemy and Uncle Sam's enemy Assad is a friend of the body of Christ:

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/04/nethe...rom-heaven

http://www.shoebat.com/2013/08/27/eviden...not-assad/

There is way more logic to assuming "our Sunni jihadists and our foreign policy to support them" are why these chemicals have been used in Syria than Syria doing it.

Of course none of you hard hearted "the USA is the shit" patriots care. As long as God doesn't get tired of our arrogance and killing that is. You all will care then real bad.

Here Ron, here's some American foreign policy results, a decent human cannot travel in Iraq, hope your "we need to kill bad people" stupidity dies out fast:


https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/07/0...ine-kidnap

Isn't it funny how civilians in formerly allied Sunni jihadist held regions do better when the murderers we back lose?? Where's Nicky Haley when we don't need her??!@@??

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/24824...efire-deal

Good article here on the future of Syria. I hope the Iranians leave myself and pay close attention to this article, the Iranian people are not stupid as shit like the American people, they recognize Iran's government and foreign affairs are self serving and murderous, unlike most of us:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-war-edg...-in-syria/

The regular Syrians get to come home after the western backed Sunni jihadis got their disgusting murderous asses stomped near Israel.

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/24827...efire-deal
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