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Turkish Foreign Minister Barred from the Netherlands
#1
Addressing a rally of supporters, Erdogan retaliated.

The Turkish foreign minister and other turkish politicians are touring Europe to hold pro Erdogan rallies.
Germany, Switzerland and now Netherlands are banning these meetings. Europe is not a platform for Erdogan's campain.
France didn't ban and I don;t know their poisition.
In Brussels, one elected official of turksih origin was blamed for his public support for Erdogan.

It's a good thing. While these Turks still have turkish nationality (I presume), they are living in Europe for decades and we don't want their conflicts coming here.
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#2
Fred, I believe the chance of Turkey ever becoming part of the European Community are pretty much nil now. And I don't believe Erdogan really cares either. I expect him to be paying more attention to Islamic countries. And most of his interaction with the Euros will probably be to force Islam.

So much for the vision of Ataturk and his secular state.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#3
We've sort of been fortunate so far because we're not ethnic based organizationally. These Muslims are not going to ever become "Dutch", "German" or "French". Just can't happen.

Going around Europe campaigning for Erdogan is so weird.
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#4
Sounds like Erdogan and Trump have similar temperments:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/re...32331.html
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#5
(03-13-2017, 07:30 PM)Palladin Wrote: Sounds like Erdogan and Trump have similar temperments:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/re...32331.html

Erogan is just mad that nobody has put him at the head of the Caliphate like he wants.
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#6
That's true.

Trump gets mad over his childish stuff as well. Just different religions, One worships Allah and himself, one just worships himself.
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#7
(03-14-2017, 03:01 PM)Palladin Wrote: That's true.

Trump gets mad over his childish stuff as well. Just different religions, One worships Allah and himself, one just worships himself.

Naah, one religion compared to one Cult. Islam is NOT a religion as it tries to get us to believe.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#8
(03-14-2017, 03:01 PM)Palladin Wrote: That's true.

Trump gets mad over his childish stuff as well. Just different religions, One worships Allah and himself, one just worships himself.

Not really. The Clinton Crime family during the election had to invent a straw man to run against rather than Trump. They are the ones who invented the image of Trump seen on all media propaganda. Those who actually know him are always talking about how big-hearted and selfless he is. When he reads about some family undergoing hardship, he steps forward and helps them with no publicity. He has shown that he can set aside ego to accomplish his goals. As an example, look at the skating rink in New York that is now so famous. He was not on good terms with the Mayor, who had a Democrat ego of his own, and wanted his own hands on the rink. Year after year, Trump would volunteer his building acumen to help, but was always slapped down. Trump just sat back and did other projects, until that Mayor finally had nothing to show for years of financial waste and let Donald do it. Trump used professionalism rather than ego to get the job done on time and under budget. There is no need to preen when the job one does stands on its own merits.

John is right about religion vs. cult - or political regime dressed up as religion. Erdogan runs a big, important country, but wants godlike adoration as the head of all Islam. Trump is more concerned about fixing things that are broken, than in appearances. He understands that appearances can help reach goals, but uses them to accomplish things rather than for their own sake. One of the assets of the Presidency is the Bully Pulpit, but during this administration, all the antis demand leadership that fails.
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#9
Here's the thing with that "cult charge".

Islam in the "state/civil/way of life" thinking is almost identical to ancient Judaism in these respects.


Just look at Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Something like 660 laws, rules and regs for every day life, everyday life. Koran just copied most of that material.

Don't do this, do this, curse for that, blessing for this. Every walk of ancient life is involved except how to wipe your ass. Even tells Jews how to properly get rid of their poop for hygiene logic. How to eat, blah blah blah.

Islam seems so weird because it is a throwback from thousands of years back, but, it is not different in the "intrusive/state oriented" thing than Judaism was.
You paid your taxes to the religious authorities in Jerusalem as well.

Islam sucks, but, this charge is not fair. Unless Judaism was a cult, which is an odd charge for a Christian or Jew to make.

I know, Jews aren't into Torah anymore, but, had they remained in ancient Israel they would still be following the law. Still be doing animal sacrifices in the Temple, etc,
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#10
Islam is still a cult. It preaches and practices world conquest by use of the Sword. The ancient Jews didn't do that, even when they resorted to similar thinking.

But there is still a Huge difference here, which you have not even attempted to show. Ancient Jews still preached the importance of self-determination, which Jesus carried to even greater heights. They didn't go around slitting throats and conquering others in the name of Yahweh.

Now, did they think there were superior to others? Yes. Did they look down on others? Yes. But did they tend to mind their own business? Again, yes. And that is completely unlike Islam of old, and today's Islam.

They are a Cult, disguised as a religion. And they are still getting away with it.

By the Way, did you go look up that Dr. Bill Warner as I asked of you? Here's his website. The reason why he is considered the most dangerous man to Islam is because he is the most knowledgeable AND he can present things in a learned and objective manner. He's a great teacher.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#11
John,

I see the differences and the similarities.

Ancient Israel actually did invade Idumaea and forced their religion on their weaker neighbors under the Hasmonean dynasty. Herod the great was an Idumaen/Jewish half breed.

With Christians and Jews living in Islamic lands since the 1 century AD, they sure suck at forced conversions. I have to question if that's a valid Islamic doctrine knowing this. I think it is like Kamil stated, they make it more "comfortable" to convert by taxing and discriminating against non Muslims based on religious dogma.

Whereas Gentiles living with Jews in ancient Israel were to be treated as Jews if they chose to worship YHWH(that's in Exodus) and even if they were not worshipping YHWH, the text teaches the Jews to be kind to them. There's your main obvious qualitative difference.
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#12
This story is taking big proportions in Europe. It went up to the EU. EU's Tusk and J-C Junker have replied to Turkey with very strong words.
Erdogan is losing his mind, telling very very stupid things, calling us "nazi". His minister told that we will see "wars of religions" soon in Europe (understand Islam vs Christianity). They are crazy.

Noy only, EU membership is "not for tomorrow" [sic J-C Junker] but IMO, NATO membership is at risk too.

It's going to be very interresting. Unfortunately I don't have much time to participate and post links now... See you next week. S5
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#13
(03-17-2017, 04:12 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: This story is taking big proportions in Europe. It went up to the EU. EU's Tusk and J-C Junker have replied to Turkey with very strong words.
Erdogan is losing his mind, telling very very stupid things, calling us "nazi". His minister told that we will see "wars of religions" soon in Europe (understand Islam vs Christianity). They are crazy.

Noy only, EU membership is "not for tomorrow" [sic J-C Junker] but IMO, NATO membership is at risk too.

It's going to be very interresting. Unfortunately I don't have much time to participate and post links now... See you next week. S5

Fred, he is not losing his mind. This is a concerted effort on his part to label the EU and its members as Turkey's ScapeGoat. He's also "Projecting" himself here, because he is doing exactly the same thing that the Nazis did in the 1930s. He is using another group to paint the blame on them.

If he manages to get the Euros to back down, then that's great. If not, its not the end of the world for him. He is a dedicated Islamist, and the world of Islam is still on the other side of Turkey. This is where he wants to take Turkey, and also be at the head of the trough.

I just wish the overwhelming majority of people in Europe and North America, had enough sense to realize that this war with Islam has never ended. Islam is only using a different strategy of conquest. And we, The West, are not only letting it get away with it, but The West is also helping them accomplish those goals. Dr. Warner is 100% Spot On, when he blames the intellectual bankrupt professors and clergy for leading the way into this disaster. We should be fighting Islam tooth and nail. Our very civilization is in the balance here.



___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#14
Western secularists are eventually going to have a stroke in this era of heightened religiosity within Islam because the world really isn't on an elliptical upward movement toward kumbayyah secularist nirvana. Same bullsh.it, unrealistic, anti historical idea permeated the west right before WWI.

No one in the western leadership can imagine that Erdogan is motivated by anything except some secularist thinking like nationalism or some selfish political stuff.

He may be to an extent, but, he is as John says a dedicated Islamist Muslim. He lives and breathes pleasing Allah and he is done compromising with local opponents and foreign kaffirs.
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#15
If he was pleasing Allah, he would bow to the whim of the Imams - instead he wants to be the Caliph.
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#16
The whim of the Imams probably is a caliphate, but, you never know William. Maybe they want more strip clubs in Istanbul?
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#17
Erdogan is signaling his desire to part ways with Turkey's long term move into the European sphere. He's giving it all up, and his excuse will be that the Turkish citizenry voted for it, not him.

Erdogan says Turkey may hold referendum on EU accession bid

Regardless the vote, this is the signal that Turkey is turning around and looking 180% in the other direction from now on. Of course he will reconsider if they are willing to sweeten the pot by making him an offer he would find impossible to refuse.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#18
Turkey's hopes of accession to the EU are dead and burried now. So why a referendum for something that won't happen anyway?
But it would be interrresting to see the result. IMO 90% will vote to join, the rest being hard core islamists but I could be wrong.
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#19
(03-30-2017, 06:22 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Turkey's hopes of accession to the EU are dead and burried now. So why a referendum for something that won't happen anyway?
But it would be interrresting to see the result. IMO 90% will vote to join, the rest being hard core islamists but I could be wrong.

Its called CYA(Cover Your Ass). That way he doesn't get the blame for withdrawing. Turkey itself will be the deciding one.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#20
Yea, Erdogan is a shrewd man whether we like him or not. He will hold the referendum, get a "NO EU" vote and then have the people supporting him for seeing to Turkey not getting membership when it was never going to happen anyway.

This is genius political activity. My guess and I do not mean this as a direct moral comparison, is this is how men like Hitler and Stalin kept themselves popular. They had a great intuitiveness about when to ride a social wave and when not to.
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