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Fixing/Removing ObamaCare
#61
(03-18-2017, 07:16 PM)Palladin Wrote: OK, here are some details on how the GOP is going to screw their supporters out in rural , poor areas. I for one am done ever voting for the creeps.

This doesn't save the treasury 1  penny.

Help your billionaire friends while those poor folks ignorant enough to vote for you get shafted.

I am done with this crew forever. If I vote again for POTUS, it will be a democrat. I doubt I waste the time ever again.

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/18/an...s-in-2018/

Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face seems to be all the rage these days. Spiteful

And voting for The Beast would have been far worse IMO. But what do I know, right? S5
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#62
This seems to sum up my thoughts on the subject rather nicely. Spiteful

[Image: RyanCare.jpg]
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#63
John,

I probably am done with both parties unless a really unique person comes along.
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#64
(03-19-2017, 07:18 PM)Palladin Wrote: John,

I probably am done with both parties unless a really unique person comes along.

In all honesty, I don't blame you Patrick.

However, don't let your anger(emotions) rule your thinking(logic). You come off as someone striking out first, at anything and everything in the words you post. Try to evaluate everything before you jump feet first into the quicksand. I know this isn't easy to do, but it helps to see things clearer.
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#65
John,

I really think the governing paradigm here is on auto pilot to a great extent. I remember watching an Obama youtube presentation in late 2007 where he laid out an anti military modernization theme, "If I am elected". Typical left wing mantra stuff.

His military views were not less militaristic than Bush after 8 years, just not as much of a huge bite to chew off comparing Syria and Libya with invading Iraq.

On domestic stuff, we've been on a trajectory of more state involvement for a century now, it's not probable that will stop anytime soon, name of POTUS notwithstanding.

BTW, yes, I am emotional with Trump. I feel like he's in the same mold of people like Andrew Jackson and would watch people starve while he succeeded at aggrandizing himself. Believing that, I can't take solace in the few decent things he might succeed at and we don't know if he will succeed at anything right now.

Those type people really bother me.
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#66
I thought 340B was a largely unused thing that is not much in use. Is not using something not in use really that bad?
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#67
Yea William, I bet you've studied up on ole 340 B a lot! I never heard of it until Trump sought to harm poor people.

What an enterprise.

A wealthy man seeking to hurt helpless poor people.
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#68
Rand Paul has been striking the nail on the head for days now.  And I agree with him.  This Dumbass attempt to "Repeal and Fix" is the dumbest way to come up with a true Free Market approach.  But the Dumbass leadership are......well.............Dumbasses as I have been saying for a long time now.  Just a bunch of Statist, Big Government fools trying to come up with the perfect Jackass-Lite bill.  

Exclusive — Rand Paul: ‘Easily 35 No Votes’ Against Paul Ryan’s Obamacare 2.0, ‘I Would Predict They Pull Bill, Start Over’

BRAVO!!  Give 'em hell!  They damned well deserve it. This 'so called' leadership is akin to the blind leading the blind. No wonder the Jackasses keep running over them on a regular basis. They're a bunch of gutless Pussies. S22

Quote:Paul, one of the leading senators out of more than a dozen Republicans in the upper chamber criticizing the bill there, told Breitbart News in this exclusive interview he believes there are at least 35 House Republicans ready to vote against the bill in its current form. And he predicted that, unless some major changes come to the legislation between now and the scheduled vote on Thursday, Ryan will need to withdraw the bill and Republicans will have to start from scratch with a new bill and a new strategy on Obamacare.

Paul said in the in-person interview at his U.S. Senate office in the Russell Senate Office Building:

Quote:I think there’s easily 35 no votes right now so unless something happens in the next 24 hours, I would predict they pull the bill and start over. I think if conservatives stick together, they will have earned a seat at the table where real negotiation to make this bill an acceptable bill will happen. But it’s interesting what conservatives are doing to change the debate. We went from keeping the Obamacare taxes for a year—hundreds of billions of dollars—but they’re coming towards us because we’re standing firm. So we have to stick together, and if we do stick together there will be a real negotiation on this. The main goal I have is not to pass something that does not fix the situation. If a year from now, insurance rates and premiums are still going through the roof and it’s now a Republican plan it will be a disservice to the president and all of us if we pass something that doesn’t work.
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#69
How do you get rid of ObamaCare? You can't write a bill that says the bill, itself, as written, is now invalid. It changed other laws, which will not change back unless spelled out. This was done on purpose to frustrate the simple repeal process.

To get the Free Market back in play, we must wipe out the bits and pieces, one at a time, as the Insurance Companies offer new policies to fill the gaps. There is no easy way.
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#70
(03-21-2017, 11:04 PM)WmLambert Wrote: How do you get rid of ObamaCare? You can't write a bill that says the bill, itself, as written, is now invalid. It changed other laws, which will not change back unless spelled out. This was done on purpose to frustrate the simple repeal process.

To get the Free Market back in play, we must wipe out the bits and pieces, one at a time, as the Insurance Companies offer new policies to fill the gaps. There is no easy way.

So, you are siding with the Ryan crowd and nixing the Rand Paul group, correct?
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#71
There are plenty of easy ways.

Start with enhancing health savings accounts( make them much more liberal) and create individual markets like corporate markets where the small business owner gets to offer pre tax insurance like corps do and individuals also should have super liberal tax write offs for their premiums and IMO, out of pocket expenses.

If I have $5000 out of pocket expenses, I should be able to write it off in a very liberal manner. I cannot write off 1 cent right now because the tax code is for wealthy folks, not regular or poor folks. I never wrote off interest on a home for the same logic.

Change the tax code to favor me and not Donald Trump and Warren Buffet.
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#72
Easy? Then explain what this means: (From the first page of the Reconciliation Legislative Recommendations Relating to Repeal and Replace of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. )
Quote:TITLE I-Energy and Commerce
Subtitle A-Patient Access to Publiuc Health Programs
Sec. 101. The Prevention and Public Health Fund.
(a) In General.-Subsection (b0 of section 4002 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (42 U.S.V. 300u-11), as amended by section 5009 of the 21st Century Cures Act, is amended-
(1) in paragraph (2), by adding "and" at the end;
(2) in paragraph (3)=
(A) by striking "each of fiscal years 2018...

My point is that this is opaque and difficult to understand. What is the "21st Century Cures Act"? - and what does it have to do with ObamaCare? Yet it does not get altered without such specific attention. This is how ObamaCare was written. ...Impossible to read, and harder to understand.

The fixes I want are easy. I could write a bill that enables cross State policy shopping on one page. Adding "prior undisclosed conditions" to all policies takes one page. But undoing what is there is hard. Everyone wants the same outcomes - but idiots who won't address the mess necessary to fix a worse mess are blowing smoke.
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#73
I meant mentally easy.

They could repeal OC and the same day have it's replacement in order.

What is going on is what Cruz feared, OC is addictive and lots of GOP voters are addicted to it's subsidies as well as the expanded Medicaid coverage. Once you start that process, it never goes away and it isn't going to here.

We're stuck with OC, they will pass something and call it something, but, it will remain close to what OC is. I don't want them to make it worse on people in so doing myself.

Trump is in office because of poorer rural white people that were scared about our society changing too rapidly and he is about to rip them a new one if the current bill were to pass. That's why it ain't going to be voted on, IMO.
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#74
(03-23-2017, 09:37 AM)Palladin Wrote: I meant mentally easy.

They could repeal OC and the same day have it's replacement in order.

What is going on is what Cruz feared, OC is addictive and lots of GOP voters are addicted to it's subsidies as well as the expanded Medicaid coverage. Once you start that process, it never goes away and it isn't going to here.

We're stuck with OC, they will pass something and call it something, but, it will remain close to what OC is. I don't want them to make it worse on people in so doing myself.

Trump is in office because of poorer rural white people that were scared about our society changing too rapidly and he is about to rip them a new one if the current bill were to pass.  That's why it ain't going to be voted on, IMO.

I hope not, but I'm terribly afraid you may be right about this RyanCare debacle Patrick.

Unfortunately, we don't have a two party system right now. Only Big Government Full Throttle and Big Government Lite.
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#75
[Image: mrz032017-color_1_orig.jpg]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#76
They have to eventually do something simply because OC left the insurance firms in the lurch. The goofballs sat there 6 years voting over and over to kill OC and now that they have a POTUS who won't veto the bill, they are as much as admitting that was pure pap for the conservatives.

I still think they can make it better even while not killing the concept off, mainly because they won't get rid of the pre conditions clause.
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#77
Here's an example of the swamp intrigue... Say we just write a one-page bill that says "ObamaCare is revoked." Okay, then we write another bill allowing policy-shoppers to cross state lines to buy the most economical policies. ...And another telling all policy issuers to allow pre-conditions. ...And another letting kids stay on their parents' policy until they are 26.

The things that raise cost and produce huge deductibles are still there. You need durable health care equipment? Well, the ObamaCare idiocy that forces all hospitals to only rent machines and tack on enormous maintenance agreements is still there. ObamaCare made it as bad as it is, but the law didn't change by revoking ObamaCare - because it is not a part of ObamaCare. In the ObamaCare bill, itself, the outside bill was accessed to be changed. Once it was changed, it became a separate document enclosed within its four corners and no further. To fix it, that outside bill must be changed by referencing it and deliberately fixing it. There are thousands and thousands of pages of ObamaCare that intruded everywhere. There is no way to do a "clean sweep". Remember Hillary's attempts way back when with her own Health Care Bill, when she wanted to deny pharmaceuticals from recouping experimental expenses - and wanted big Pharma to be replaced by third world hustlers with no accountability? That now exists as part of ObamaCare. i don't know where or how to fix it. The only fix that works is to track down all the back-room deals and open them to transparency - to let Insurance companies react only with the Free Market. Until these regulations and rules are deep-sixed, they will destroy any common sense approach.

Yet people get upset when they are told common sense won't work yet.
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#78
I think it advisable to kill OC myself. Just have a replacement as part of the package.

They need to drop the "parents keep 26 year olds" on their policies, that's killing the INS firm's cash flow. 26 year olds need to get their own insurance coverage.

I think we are stuck with pre conditions clause. Do those free market things we discussed, which should induce young healthy citizens to get coverage w/o coercion. If you make the individual market pre tax like the corporate market, that would really help.

Let all of us write off out of pocket expenses and if you make below X, let that citizen write them off from the bottom of their tax form.

Forget worrying about the income for this monstrous state, let's have a system that cares for the citizens more than the state and all citizens, not just wealthy citizens.

Pipe dreams are fun.
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#79
(03-23-2017, 05:45 PM)Palladin Wrote: I think it advisable to kill OC myself. Just have a replacement as part of the package.

They need to drop the "parents keep 26 year olds" on their policies, that's killing the INS firm's cash flow. 26 year olds need to get their own insurance coverage.

I think we are stuck with pre conditions clause. Do those free market things we discussed, which should induce young healthy citizens to get coverage w/o coercion.  If you make the individual market pre tax like the corporate market, that would really help.

Let all of us write off out of pocket expenses and if you make below X, let that citizen write them off from the bottom of their tax form.

Forget worrying about the income for this monstrous state, let's have a system that cares for the citizens more than the state and all citizens, not just wealthy citizens.

Pipe dreams are fun.

I agree Patrick. Let the Free Market reign, and then take those unable on a case-by-case basis. The cost is going to be greater the longer it crawls up the path. The up front costs would cost less in the long run anyway. Let CATO Institute, or FEE come up with a great plan, and screw both of those sorry wings of that Statist, Big Government Party.

I got a great idea. Instead of building this in New Yawk, why not build it in DC, between the WH and Congress. Put lots of shiny lights on it, so the Islamists can home right in. Spiteful

[Image: u-shaped-skyscraper-big-bend-new-york-fb__700-png.jpg]
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“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up” — Saint Al of the Gore -
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#80
(03-23-2017, 07:17 PM)John L Wrote: ...Let the Free Market reign, and then take those unable on a case-by-case basis.  The cost is going to be greater the longer it crawls up the path.  The up front costs would cost less in the long run anyway.  Let CATO Institute, or FEE come up with a great plan, and screw both of those sorry wings of that Statist, Big Government Party....

Won't work for the reasons I posted. Such a deal will fail like Obama intended - to usher in total government control single-payer, which was the goal from the beginning.
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