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Forthcoming European Elections................
#81
(06-04-2017, 02:51 PM)WmLambert Wrote: The real problem is the media selectively reporting pejoratively.

The real problem is that they've completely lost their minds.

We're in dangerously uncharted waters.  The media may have been hostile to Nixon, but to use the public domain to call him a "piece of sh*t"? ... unimaginable .... to use the public domain to render him as a severed head?  Inconceivable.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#82
(06-04-2017, 04:51 PM)Palladin Wrote: Yak,

Trump was elected as an anti globalist, anti free trade, nationalist. Agreed.

But, those nationalists still think the US is exceptional and should rule the globe. Very few are like me, isolationists. Very few, probably 1-2%.

I agree with the 'free trade' part, and disagree with the 'rule the globe' part.  

Free Trade - I think its for show to keep the America First folks on board.  He keeps talking about the evils of it, but is doing nothing to punish other trading nations.  The minute he starts doing that, he will lose me, because as a C.Liberal, I am 100% for Free Trade.  Smoot-Hawley proved that protective tariffs lead to global economic war, and Everyone loses.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one and holding my breath.   Banghead

Rule the Globe - How many times do I have to repeat John Naisbett's Global Paradox pronouncement?  As we act globally, we begin thinking locally/tribally.  The US is really no different.  There's a huge difference between being the biggest economic player, and the ruler of the world.  

So, as a self professed Isolationist, are you also an economic isolationist Patrick?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#83
The benefot Europe got from US defense spendings is the capacity of the US to intervene in case of war and nuclear retaliation.
The US poses a too big risk to Russia or anyone who would want to invade Europe.

But the US is not able to stop an invasion or to weight decisively to counter the first assaults. Since the end of the Cold War and the withdrawal of US armed forces from Germany, the US doesn't have this role and this capability anymore. Yet you and Trump are still talking as if it was the case.
This is a die hard myth.

In case of Russian invasion, Polish and Lithuanian forces will be on the frontline along with other european nations.

It could be wise to rise our military forces but it won't make the US save a single cent. The US will waste as much in excessive military spending as today.
Trump shows this as if the US had to spend more because we don't spend enough. that's ridiculous: He decided to rise the US defense budget by 10% anyway.

Mr Y Wrote:when they realize that they can't get transport to and from the battle field without relying on some sketchy Russian taxi drivers.
I don't think they are unable to. I think it's rather 5x cheaper to ask the russian to do the heavy logistic. It's an economic decision. Just as the US transported stuffs to Afghanistan on Russian railways.

We are not at war with Russi and collaboration with them is fair.

We should also stop the second myth that Russia is an ennemy.
We have to be able to defend ourself against a Russian invasion, that's obvious. But Russia has no plan to invade Europe at the moment. It's important to remind that.
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#84
Fred,

It's enough to worry some in the French legislature.  It's probably much cheaper to use U.S. tankers to refuel Rafale fighters as well.  But again, it's dependence.  Merkel has indicated that Europe must become more self-reliant and Macron seems to agree with her ... at least in principle.  But how can self-reliance be claimed when there are key dependencies?  Russia is not inclined or likely to overrun western Europe.  But what about a country like Estonia?  There was an exercise a couple of months ago designed to try to get Russia to think twice.  Why would that be done if it wasn't necessary?  Do you think NATO leaders simply make up scenarios for the sake of making up scenarios?  And if one NATO member falls, is it possible to simply ignore that and pretend that the alliance is intact?  What are the odds of the French taking the field if first they have to contract with their Russian taxi drivers?  Europe as a whole would be safer and more secure if it could do more of what it needs to do to defend itself within the NATO framework without as Merkel said "complete dependence on others".

... and it's all not simply about preparedness for war either ...
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#85
(06-04-2017, 05:14 PM)John L Wrote: Free Trade - I think its for show to keep the America First folks on board.  He keeps talking about the evils of it, but is doing nothing to punish other trading nations.  The minute he starts doing that, he will lose me, because as a Classic Progressive, I am 100% for Free Trade.  Smoot-Hawley proved that protective tariffs lead to global economic war, and Everyone loses.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one and holding my breath.   Banghead

"Free Trade" isn't always 'Free' John.  In this case, I think the punishment will be completely appropriate.  This wasn't some sort of knee-jerk Mexican wall tax ... this was completely adjudicated as part of an existing and ratified agreement.

Trump has also kabashed the TPP.  I'm not certain that was a bad call or simply part of "the show" either.

I'm all for "classic liberal" (hey funny ... you apparently have a switch that changes classic l*iberal to classic Progressive and it shows up that way now) principles, but blatant dumping isn't a normal or healthy aspect of commerce.  

With regards to nationalism v.s. globalism, my thoughts were less about trade and more about the Obama era notion that the U.S. exists to service the interest of the world at large.  Trump has pretty much stood that on it's ear.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#86
It is an interesting thing: how confronting a non-free trader nation in ways that may force it to become free.

We can't trade freely if the nation we trade with has strings attaches, right?

What Trump has always shown is a tendency to answer attacks more strongly than the attack itself. He answers more angrily, perhaps, but always much stronger. I'm sure Jeb Bush came to regret his minor slurs of Trump that got him tarred and feathered as a low-energy non-entity. With trade, if iron and steel have incentives attached that competes unfairly, I'd expect Trump to answer visibly and loudly - but to leave an opening for the offending nation to call a truce and make amends. Just equalizing incentives doesn't move the paradigm forward.
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#87
It appears to be working nicely ... we got a deal instead of trade war and put a stop to getting screwed over.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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