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Dismantling Obama's Legacy: The Economy, Presidential Orders, Etc.
We'll just pay X dollars per pay check like we do medicare.
It will be a disaster, but, it's a likely outcome. No one is worse at government services than Americans.

We'll make the problems with Canada and UK's systems look funny.
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Funny how many Canadians come to the US to get their elective surgeries done, rather than wait three years in line for their socialized medicine to get around to them in their country. Canada is even worse than the V.A. Hospital in America (and Trump has promised to fix that).

Hospital ERs in the USA do not turn patients away. They can be turned away in Canada. There may be all kinds of problems after the fact for how medical treatment gets paid for in the US; but the treatments are done. Expensive experimental treatments may be hard to obtain; but this is true under socialized medicine, too. No one is better than the government (ANY government) when it comes to finding reasons not to give you the benefits you need.

The truth is that health and life cannot be guaranteed. No matter what insurance scheme you have, you're still going to die someday.
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Here's Ben Shapiro on the latest hoopla over the rise of a Great Alternative to Obamacare.  

Conservatives Must Stop Calling Trumpcare An Obamacare 'Repeal.' Here's The Big Reason Why.

Here's some of what he has to say:

Quote:This sets up a presumption: that Obamacare is dead, to be replaced by the free market. But then Trump went on to tell the Australian prime minister that the Australian system – a nationalized health care system – works better than Obamacare. Despite the White House’s attempts to spin away the comments today, Trump, ever willing to double down on a silly comment in order to avoid backtracking, tweeted this:

Follow
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Of course the Australians have better healthcare than we do --everybody does. ObamaCare is dead! But our healthcare will soon be great.

Click to enlarge
   

This is the problem: Trump has no clue what he’s talking about. That means he’s pitching a government-based system, Trumpcare, as a free market system, even while he’s praising a nationalized health care system. This is a mess.

But the takeaway will be the same as it always is when Republicans trim around the edges of government and then declare the free market has won: the free market takes the blame for government failures. Because Republicans spent the first part of the 2000s claiming that they had unleashed the financial industry – without actually removing the subsidies that drove the subprime housing bubble – when the system collapsed, capitalism was blamed. It was blamed even by those who had said they stood for the free market; President Bush infamously stated, “I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.” But we didn’t have a free market system. And that sort of language led Americans to embrace government as a cure-all for a free market system that never existed.

The same will happen in health care.

Trumpcare, even if it works as Ryan thinks it will, will not be a panacea. By retaining Obamacare regulations but destroying the individual mandate, Trumpcare actually exacerbates the Obamacare death spiral and drives up premiums. It also creates a gap in coverage for low-income people who are sick and old, and disincentivizes work, since many of them would be better off with Medicaid than stuck in that gap. What will be blamed for Trumpcare’s failures? The free market – which, again, hasn’t been tried.

As always.

His point is that this entire House bill is nothing more than "Political Gottcha", so as to make the Dumbasses look better than the Jackasses.  At no time is the Free Market system set as the goal.  So, using deduction, it is safe to say that at least the House Republicans are not really interested in Free Enterprise.  

And he's right too.  The Dumbasses keep looking more like Jackass Lite than anything else.  And its the very reason why I have been saying for some years now that there really is NO two party system in the US.  Its just two wings of one Big Government Party.  When are right thinking Repubicans going to finally wake up and realize that they are being played for fools?   Gah

Moral: You cannot fix a system that has been corrupted from top to bottom.  It has to be replaced with something better.  I'm going to keep saying this until even Bill finally gets tired of defending the indefensible.  Spiteful
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Yep. What replaces it? (a)Return to 2007,(b)National health insurance or © similar system that works?
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[Image: payn_c15031520170506120100.jpg]

Ain't propaganda just great?!  Fortunately, too many wiser skeptics around to call it for what it really is: Obamacare Lite.  Or should be say "Dumbass Lite"? When are 'so called' Conservatives finally going to throw up their hands and scream Enough!  Gah

Let's hope there are enough clear heads in the Senate to straighten this all out and make Free Enterprise the main ingredient.  Personally, I am skeptical of the results.  S4

[Image: lb170506cd20170505070304.jpg]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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"...All this does is shift costs onto elderly and low wage families away from upper class and high wage earners."

Actually, anyone just above the poverty line - which is a far greater number than those below it - suffer from huge deductible, causing them to have no health care at all. While having no health care - they are forced to pay huge premiums they cannot afford.

Why not allow the Free Market to work and not penalize doctors from treating patients one on one?
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Few reasons, the free market should not determine health or no health in a wealthy society like our's and Trump's bill is not more free market than OC is anyway.

All it does is shift costs from upper middle class and wealthy onto poor worker's and Medicaid recipients that got care under Medicaid expansion. That's no more free market than OC, it just shifts the costs William.

This bill won't hurt me, OC did. But, I am not for harming weaker folks to assist me or you, sorry. That's just not who I am.
This is all about ego, not good public policy. There may be some very good ways to approach this problem, but, shifting costs from the strong to the weak is not one of them.

It's not hard to figure some modest truly free market ideas, like big expansions of health savings accounts, liberalizing them, tax write offs for all out of pocket expenses for ALL taxpayers, not just wealthy tax payers, etc. The GOP is not for this because free market ideas are no longer part of their intellectual energy unless you're upper tax bracket, then they love you.

No, just give a tax break to people who really don't need it instead, spend another trillion defending us against bogeymen who cannot invade our nation under the damn sun and then complain about deficits.

Robin Hood in reverse is worse than Robin Hood is.
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(05-08-2017, 12:24 PM)Palladin Wrote: ...All it does is shift costs from upper middle class and wealthy onto poor worker's and Medicaid recipients that got care under Medicaid expansion. That's no more free market than OC, it just shifts the costs ...

Did you read the entire ObamaCare law? Did you read any of the proposed bill?

Of course you didn't. You get all of your info from political advocacy groups who tell you what they want you to believe. You believe it all at your own risk.

I've spent hours sifting through ObamaCare to understand the very things being discussed. Changing the abortion which is called ObamaCare does not do all the things claimed. In fact, it generally may put us on the pathway to fix all those thing that ObamaCare caused. Since all the insurance carriers are backing out of the ObamaCare system because it is failing, any attempt to make the Insurance carriers not fail can be made to look like assisting the rich and wealthy - but in fact it is aimed at resurrecting a system which is infinitely batter for the poor and upper middle class.
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Oddly, I know there are problems with Obamacare because...

wait for it...

Hillary Clinton told me so.

And, her husband confirmed it.
I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
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NPR article on the house health bill. It definitely raises costs for older poorer people, lowers it for younger folks, allows states to opt out of previous condition coverages for chronic bad diseases, lowers taxes on corporations in the $500 billion range over a decade among many other things, a handful good. 2 good things are it allows states NOT to mandate total coverage and it attempts to stop people from gaming the system.

Bottom line, wealthy corps do good here, old folks do poorly, young do good and dropping the mandate leaves the OC death spiral on steroids. In other words it's a waste of time, this program would have the same killer effect OC is suffering. I don't know what you've read.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots...-care-bill


Ivan the terrible, I mean Jeff Sessions wants maximum sentences on all federal charges. Another mindless idiocy from Don Trump's rule. We already have more people in prison than China has, time to use our brains beyond a fundy Christian desire to make every sinner pay that price. They're all so innocent.

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/05/14/se...-horrible/
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Sessions is a good man. Calling him "Ivan the Terrible" is politics of personal destruction. That makes your heroes and mentors the Clintons. You go down that path at your own risk.

The different versions of the Heath Care bills all approach how to re-engage the Free Market system. A perfect result would be wide-open policy-writing that are best for different people in varying circumstances. Of course, they will look to be beneficial to wealthy subscribers. They will also create the best policies for poor, or at-risk populations. Figure out for yourself the options available to all groups.

A young man or woman with few health risks will want specific protection - not all the things older people require. It is not easy, but a full-spectrum result will produce the best for all people.
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Well, maybe just Atilla the Hun then. Any human who defaults to the worst punishment possible w/o thought of a person to person situation is a morally sick pile of vomit. This is the AD, not the human sacrifice BC.



If he'd been raised in Baghdad, he'd be the leader of the Mukhbarat torture division. If in Spain under Torquemada, lead torturer. In the USA 2017, as much of that as the know nothing red neck can effect.
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(05-15-2017, 12:57 PM)Palladin Wrote: Well, maybe just Atilla the Hun then. Any human who defaults to the worst punishment possible w/o thought of a person to person situation is a morally sick pile of vomit. This is the AD, not the human sacrifice BC.



If he'd been raised in Baghdad, he'd be the leader of the Mukhbarat torture division. If in Spain under Torquemada, lead torturer. In the USA 2017, as much of that as the know nothing red neck can effect.

Patrick, have you ever been outside E. Tennessee before? And if so, have you ever been to New Yawk? I know you haven't because if you had, you would not have to come up with all these out of this world scenarios.

Patrick, he's a Fucking New Yawker!! Forget all this other stuff, its all about where he was born and raised. He can't help himself. Being a certified Asshole is just second nature. And I know, I know, they aren't all like that. Just 90% of them to one extent or another. S13

Get used to it, and stop acting so ignorant about the world around you. Gah
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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I think we were talking about Jeff Sessions, here - not Trump. Sessions is a politician, so there must be some bad merit points in there, somewhere, but aside from Democrats making them up, there really aren't many things to get all bent-up over.
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John,

Yes, I really have been. Spent lots of time in Pittsburgh since 2008( church related sabbaticals) and have been lost in Chicago. Never been to NYC though.

I don't buy the "he's a NYC asshole; forget about it" mentality. Remember when the bridge controversy happened in NJ while Christie was governor? I knew immediately even if Christie did not know or order it, he was comfortable with the people he assigned who did do it and I wrote the thug off immediately.

Church friend and co-worker is from Newark and he told me, "dude that's a typical NJ politician, that's how they punish their enemies". My reply, "I don't care, I don't want a human like that with the power of the POTUS".

That's not even why I dislike Trump, John. His ego is bigger than Narcissus' and nothing else matters to him. I think Christie( or Hillary) with their flaws would have governed to accomplish more than proving they deserve to have won an election.

Trump has nothing more on his mind than proving he deserved to win the election. He casts left and right on his decisions, he is like a leaf in the wind ideologically. His energy is spent defending his ego, not the nation. He's just a disastrous human with authority. I'd prefer any single politician in the nation beyond Jeff Sessions to lead this nation from either party.

He won't get his way on much even if you agree with a specific idea:

https://www.axios.com/why-trump-cant-get...53252.html

He is being led by the nose in prepping the idiots in the USA to support him creating a new war victim in Syria( I'm sure you've read how Assad has a crematorium going in Damascus by now). I am on record right now saying I support Syria against the USA and hope we lose that war like we have been lately and at the same time this blowhard know nothing red neck will do nothing against a real enemy of the world in NK.

Rand Paul agrees with me, Jeff Sessions is a very sick and dangerous man:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/15/opinions/s...index.html
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(05-15-2017, 01:37 PM)Palladin Wrote: Rand Paul agrees with me, Jeff Sessions is a very sick and dangerous man:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/15/opinions/s...index.html

I agree with Rand Paul, and you too, on this drug war. But I'm still looking all over the article to find where Senator Paul agrees that Sessions is "A very sick and dangerous man." Did I miss a sentence there?

I just know you would never, ever, be guilty of blowing your words out of proportion. S13
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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John,

The link above has Rand saying Sessions is going to "ruin lives".

I apologize for being like an ancient, Jewish rabbi and doing a midrash on that and saying that = a "sick and dangerous man" cause he has awesome power over us. I think it's a valid midrash, you disagree? I would have made a good ancient rabbi!(Just messing with ya).

He's a vicious man who I would not stand in the same room as. I'd prefer to be in the room of every prisoner in every jail in the nation than that red faced anti merciful Torquemada. He would fit right in with the SS & Mukhbarat had he been born into those cultures.

At this juncture in your life, all ideology aside and our arguing( which is a big nothing, I do it for fun), doesn't it bother you that any human in this nation in 2017 AD which has a lot of Christ worshippers, thinks it is appropriate to order all officials to automatically ask for the harshest sentence?

It's just morally sick to see humans like that and always desire to w/o thinking or consideration of the harshest penalty on earth.

This really is beyond politics here. This man can be replaced with a real human being to do a creditable job, we don't need Torquemada Jr in the AGs office. BTW, what has this guy done about fast and furious? Obama promoted the perps, where's Sessions on real crime?

William,

At this point, I think you would argue for Sessions( or any GOP AG)if we had a holocaust. You're as slavish as any human I have personally ever encountered about supporting your political types.

My opposition to Sessions has nothing to do with politics, it's just that I am a human being and he sees humans as cockroaches in some cases. I don't care about his politics, if he was a communist I'd have the same feelings about him an unjust, hateful man who would have served Torquemada avidly.
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Earth to Patrick, Earth to Patrick. Any decision made on a national basis manages to ruin some lives, regardless how good that decision happens to be. That's why leaders should always feel a heavy burden when making decisions. Apparently you never thought of that, correct? If you are looking for perfection happy hunting. Spiteful

The question is not if lives will be ruined, but the total number. Senator Paul does not say that. You are taking a statement and using it to bolster your own thinking, while at the same time putting words in his mouth.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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John,

It doesn't bother you what he's asking for? You're comfortable with what he has ordered all assistant AG's?

yes or no?

I think it would be if I were a Muslim terrorist. This mentality has no place in an enlightened government, not that we have one right now.
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(05-16-2017, 01:35 PM)Palladin Wrote: John,

It doesn't bother you what he's asking for?  You're comfortable with what he has ordered all assistant AG's?

yes or no?

I think it would be if I were a Muslim terrorist. This mentality has no place in an enlightened government, not that we have one right now.

Patrick, we are wasting our time on this, and I am not going to keep hashing it out. I'm just not as emotionally hard core as you are. I'm also a little bit more forgiving too. I'll take my idea of Christianity over yours any day.

If you want to discuss other things, fell free, but don't include me in your rantings from now on. Please address them to the others.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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