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South Korea and China
#21
https://www.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-s...53061.html


Full text and follow-up comments, see link above.

Quote:SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korea said on Tuesday it would use greater force, including firearms, against Chinese boats fishing illegally in its waters and summoned China's ambassador to protest against a clash between a Chinese vessel and a coast guard boat.

South Korean coast guard vessels regularly chase Chinese boats for fishing illegally off its coast, at times resulting in violent confrontations.

The disputes are an irritant in relations between China and U.S. ally South Korea, even as their economic relations grow close and they share concerns about North Korea's nuclear weapons and missile programs.

South Korea's coast guard said on Tuesday that its officers would be authorized to use firearms, including handguns and onboard cannon, against illegal Chinese fishing vessels if deemed threatening.

"We will actively respond to Chinese fishing boats that obstruct justice by using all possible means if needed such as directly hitting and gaining control of those Chinese fishing boats as well as firing common weapons," Lee Choon-jae, deputy chief of South Korea's coast guard, told a news conference.

South Korea's Ministry of Public Safety and Security, which oversees the coast guard, said one of its patrol boats sank last week during an operation to crack down on a group of Chinese vessels fishing illegally off the Korean peninsula's west coast.

It said the patrol boat was rammed by one of the Chinese vessels. No injuries were reported.

The Chinese vessel fled the scene and returned to its home port, the South Korean coast guard said.
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#22
The ROKs are getting serious about all these provocations.  They're sick and tired of being pushed around for centuries.  I saw this attitude up close and personal, way back in 1971 when I was stationed there.  

My houseboy was the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet.  We spent hours talking together over the ensuing months I was assigned there.  I was also the battalion Public Relations Officer(Cold War Officer), so I made it a point to know the locals as much as possible.  I learned an awful lot about the Korean thinking process.  

One of the ever present dangers was that from the North Korean agents(UIs - Unidentified Individuals), slipping into the ROK border zone, and then into the US security zone.  They were sent south to assassinate officials or commit sabotage on different objectives.  Like every able bodied adult male, he was a member of the "Home Guard" and had to spend designated nights standing guard or doing sweeps in the local area.  I asked him what he would do if he came upon one of them, and his immediate response was "Kill him".  

His response was not surprising, but the way he instantly changed his personality to cold hard determination was what was telling.  It was as though the blinders were suddenly removed.  It was the same kind of determination people use when they see a scorpion or poisonous snake around their children.  The response is immediate and no longer worth contemplating.  Its a natural and automatic process now, and beyond thought.  

He also commented that "We" are no longer going to stand still and let others rule us.  And he meant every word.  I believed him, and could see this in the eyes of almost every South Korean I met.  They are sick and tired of being treated like someone's slave or punching bag from now on.  If PRC wants to play bully, then bring it on!  

South Korea had sent an infantry division to Vietnam, The White Horse Division, during the conflict.  And the Viet Cong were scared to death of them.  You didn't fuck with the ROKS.  PRC may be bigger and stronger, but the ROKs are Badder.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#23
The latest story is Seal Team Six preparing to take out the North Korean dynast King/President.

If this story is planted - what is the reason?
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#24
(10-11-2016, 10:55 AM)John L Wrote: The ROKs are getting serious about all these provocations.  They're sick and tired of being pushed around for centuries.  I saw this attitude up close and personal, way back in 1971 when I was stationed there.  

My houseboy was the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet.  We spent hours talking together over the ensuing months I was assigned there.  I was also the battalion Public Relations Officer(Cold War Officer), so I made it a point to know the locals as much as possible.  I learned an awful lot about the Korean thinking process.  

One of the ever present dangers was that from the North Korean agents(UIs - Unidentified Individuals), slipping into the ROK border zone, and then into the US security zone.  They were sent south to assassinate officials or commit sabotage on different objectives.  Like every able bodied adult male, he was a member of the "Home Guard" and had to spend designated nights standing guard or doing sweeps in the local area.  I asked him what he would do if he came upon one of them, and his immediate response was "Kill him".  

His response was not surprising, but the way he instantly changed his personality to cold hard determination was what was telling.  It was as though the blinders were suddenly removed.  It was the same kind of determination people use when they see a scorpion or poisonous snake around their children.  The response is immediate and no longer worth contemplating.  Its a natural and automatic process now, and beyond thought.  

He also commented that "We" are no longer going to stand still and let others rule us.  And he meant every word.  I believed him, and could see this in the eyes of almost every South Korean I met.  They are sick and tired of being treated like someone's slave or punching bag from now on.  If PRC wants to play bully, then bring it on!  

South Korea had sent an infantry division to Vietnam, The White Horse Division, during the conflict.  And the Viet Cong were scared to death of them.  You didn't fuck with the ROKS.  PRC may be bigger and stronger, but the ROKs are Badder.

When I was in Pusan, South Korea in 1979, it was still under martial law. The South Korean Army had two armed sentries on the Jetty during our entire stay. One armed sentry asked to use the ship's head. Prior to going below deck, he turned his rifle over to the quartermaster on duty. About 5 minutes later a South Korean officer came by and asked where the sentry was and was advised the sentry was using the head. After about ten minutes he asked the quartermaster if he could go below to check on his sentry and was escorted by a member of the duty watch. They found the Korean sentry drinking a beer in the Jr Ranks Mess. I was told the Korean sentry's face turned white when he saw the duty officer. He was escorted off the ship, got into a vehicle with the Korean Army officer and immediately left the area. I wonder what happened to him. Many years later a Korean-Canadian realtor who had served in Vietnam with the Korean Army told me he probably served a lengthy sentence in a military prison.
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
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#25
There were many stories in 90's and later about the North Korean Special Forces. Bigger, faster, and lethal. Bred for the jobs and trained to be machines. I wonder how much of that was real and how much was propaganda?
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#26
Good article here on how the US/NK Specvial Forces operate. The TV show M*A*S*H lasted for longer than the war there, but there is plenty of fodder for a future project.

[Image: tumblr_meayjsd1AL1rmrd76o1_1280-905x611.jpg]

Quote:The US Navy SEAL Team 6 element would more than likely operate hand-in-hand with the US Army Delta Force, conducting covert operations behind enemy lines, taking out/down key targeted personnel. With a few nuclear sites bordering N. Korea’s coast, I’m sure the SEALs and MARSOC would play a key role in destroying the infrastructure, or displaying a feint maneuver, allowing other SOF’s to conduct operations in the region, similar to the “feint” maneuver displayed in Desert Storm. We may also find the SEALs conducting their historical mission, taking out coastal obstacles, ships, rigs, etc., clearing the the route for conventional forces.
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#27
(04-12-2017, 01:10 PM)WarBicycle Wrote: They found the Korean sentry drinking a beer in the Jr Ranks Mess. I was told the Korean sentry's face turned white when he saw the duty officer. He was escorted off the ship, got into a vehicle with the Korean Army officer and immediately left the area. I wonder what happened to him. Many years later a Korean-Canadian realtor who had served in Vietnam with the Korean Army told me he probably served a lengthy sentence in a military prison.

You probably don't really want to know.

When I was there in 70-71 there were two armored battalions in 2nd Div: 1/72nd, and 2/72nd. Tank gunnery took place in the spring/summer and each battalion hosted the other at Chip'o-ri gunnery range. My Alpha Company hosted for a week, while their A company went through the competition.

One day I was acting range officer, and my driver and I were traveling slowly behind one of the M-60s going through the cupola .50 cal. machine gun. At the first target, the turret traversed, and the copula engaged it. All of the 50 cal shell casings naturally fell outside the tank, and on to the ground. Out of nowhere appeared a ROK soldier, who went about his business policing up all the brass, in order to sell it on the market. He had abandoned his post and not following orders.

I policed him up and took him to the ROK range NCO. As I told the senior NCO what had happened, the little fellow knew he was in 'deep kimchi'. The NCO politely went to him, and talked softly as he moved around the young man. Then he let loose a huge kick to the fellow's hip, and proceeded to use all sorts of taekwondo on him. I couldn't take it, so I immediately got in the MUTT(what passed for a jeep then) and left.

The next day the fellow was on the job, but his entire face was black and blue. There was an eye patch over one eye, and his right arm was in a heavy sling. I couldn't see what was under his uniform. And he was not in any sort of high security job like the guard you are discussing.

I would not have wanted to see what he looked like the next day, that's for sure. Those ROKs do not mess around when it comes to discipline. Shock
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#28
One of the reasons I'm focusing on taking out Kim Jong-un, is the political failures that bogged down the Korean War. I remember how deciding on the shape of the negotiating table took months and I remember the Pueblo, years after Peace was declared. When we defeated Japan in WWII, we destroyed their ability to make war by banning their militaristic Shinto religion, and forcing the Emperor to admit he was not a divine god. We allowed their political leaders to gain supremacy over the military leaders. The pathway to peace in NK looks very similar.
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#29
William,

Good grief, we could dictate terms in 1945 to Germans and Japanese because we could go around killing millions of civilians with aerial bombing. We can't do that anymore.
That's never happening again in our history.
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#30
(04-12-2017, 06:06 PM)Palladin Wrote: William,

Good grief, we could dictate terms in 1945 to Germans and Japanese because we could go around killing millions of civilians with aerial bombing. We can't do that anymore.
That's never happening again in our history.

What are you trying to say? We did that after the war was ended. The negotiations were all about Japan fitting into the modern world and recovering from their humiliation. The breaking of Shinto was necessary. I guess the God King of NK is sacred to your thinking? We also refused them the ability to maintain an armed forces. No threat to civilians. That is your kind of thinking. Take off the hair shirt. The loss of their religion was sponsored by the Japanese Foreign Minister who also wanted it gone. You don't think there are some in NK who want the God King and his family gone, and the military brought down?
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#31
Trump Wrote:We talked trade, we talked a lot of things, and I said the way you’re going to make a good trade deal is to help us with North Korea, otherwise we’re just going to go it alone, that’ll be all right too, but going it alone means going with lots of other nations
LOL S2 link
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#32
Trump must be spot on. China refused the shipments of NK coal.
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#33
(04-12-2017, 06:06 PM)Palladin Wrote: William,

Good grief, we could dictate terms in 1945 to Germans and Japanese because we could go around killing millions of civilians with aerial bombing. We can't do that anymore.
That's never happening again in our history.

Patrick, we were 'officially' in a state of declared war at the time. War is a dirty mess and people get killed.

I don't like war, because I have seen it up close and personal, like countless veterans. Why do you think soldiers hate war more than others?

My biggest complaint is that we no longer honor this official declaration. If we are going to resort to warfare and killing for a national objective, then dammit, it should be through the official congressional declaration. We refused to do this for the Korean War, Vietnam War, and all the others that followed.

If anything, we should be 'officially' at war with Islam, because it is at war with us, and will never stop until someone comes out victorious. That's where we should be fighting.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#34
(04-12-2017, 07:49 PM)Fredledingue Wrote:
Trump Wrote:We talked trade, we talked a lot of things, and I said the way you’re going to make a good trade deal is to help us with North Korea, otherwise we’re just going to go it alone, that’ll be all right too, but going it alone means going with lots of other nations
LOL S2 link

Yeah, he does do that, doesn't. At least he isn't "misunderestimating" the enemy? S13
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#35
(04-12-2017, 09:24 PM)WmLambert Wrote: Trump must be spot on. China refused the shipments of NK coal.

If that's all they do, take a guess as to who came out on top of all this? Spiteful
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#36
(04-12-2017, 09:28 PM)John L Wrote: ...we should be 'officially' at war with Islam, because it is at war with us, and will never stop until someone comes out victorious.  That's where we should be fighting.

Agreed. But we should declare them as a martial regime first - and not a "religion." Especially one "of Peace."
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#37
John,

I know we were in a declared war in 1945 for heaven's sake. We killed millions of civilians by aerial bombing and we can't do that anymore.

William,

We can't do mass civilian murder anymore. You stated above we can create a similar victory paradigm with NK as we did with Japan. Can't happen, we don't get to burn down huge cities from the skies anymore.

It is what it is, it says nothing about my preferences. It just says I can deal with reality.
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#38
(04-12-2017, 11:43 PM)Palladin Wrote: John,

I know we were in a declared war in 1945 for heaven's sake. We killed millions of civilians by aerial bombing and we can't do that anymore.

I know that.  Computerized weapons are much more precise now.  But that wasn't my point.  My point is that we went all out because were were in an official state of war, and there were "no holds barred".  

My point is that if we are going to practice war, then we should make it official and go all out, not all these half-way measures.  And if we aren't willing to go through congress, then we shouldn't be doing what we are doing.  That was my point.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#39
There has long been a recognized need for balance between the legitimization of war afforded by going through Congress, and the need for an Executive who can respond immediately to threats of the moment. For example, in the Cold War paradigm, if Soviet missiles were detected on the way over the north pole, there would be no time to go to Congress. The president had to have the authority to launch a counter strike instantly on his own, or else there would have been no effective deterrence to prevent a preemptive strike by the Soviet Union. Likewise today, our allies need to know that if enemies launch an attack on Israel--or Kuwait, or Saudi Arabia, or Jordan, we would be able to intervene immediately with whatever force is required to be effective. Any discussion must be after the fact. We had just better be sure we elect and install in power an executive team that is capable of being intelligent and decisive and responsible. And of course NOT allow themselves to be held in check by the silly, brainwashed snowflakes of the political left.
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#40
John,

We did a lot of war crimes in WWII. I get we were at a societal war effort, but, we can never again burn down cities like Dresden or Tokyo. Do that today and you'd end up at the bottom of a rope, even the US POTUS eventually would.

That's war criminal stuff and we've preached since then that anyone acting like that is the "next Hitler". That's why most every war we fight is at best a draw, too. What Assad is doing right now is child's play to how we flattened large cities in WWII. We most likely killed several million civilians in that war.
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