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Islam - see them for what they are
#61
(07-03-2016, 01:28 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: John, ok, I'll take notice. I think there should be a title to this video in english...

I just used my Opera translation app, and got this:

CROISADES VS JIHAD : SOME TRUTHS GOOD TO KNOW

"Crusades vs Jihad: some good facts to know"? Sounds about right.

In the meantime, let's get another side of the same story from the BBC. If I didn't know better I would swear it was Monty Python. S13

Horrible Histories The Crusades Report YouTube


___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#62
John,

It isn't Islam that is animating these Palestinians, Jews lived with Muslims since Mohammad's days way easier than among Christendom, get that fact through your head. It's because Jews are fucking them out of their land and persecuting them daily in their land, the same thing you have stated you would be willing to kill over.

Why is it OK for you and not others?

I already showed a graph of terror events before and after 1967, the local Arabs had accepted Israel in the 1967 situation. They are not now and will never allow Jews to have a free hand persecuting them outside Israel and they should not do so although I wish they would choose the route of Martin Luther King and Gandhi.
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#63
Ok, but why stabbing to death a 13 YO girl?
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#64
(07-03-2016, 01:56 PM)Palladin Wrote: John,

It isn't Islam that is animating these Palestinians, Jews lived with Muslims since Mohammad's days way easier than among Christendom, get that fact through your head. It's because Jews are fucking them out of their land and persecuting them daily in their land, the same thing you have stated you would be willing to kill over.  

Look, we humans are bad enough, under normal circumstances.  Adding Islam to the equation makes it even worse.  

As for Jews living amongst Muslims, way back when, they were allowed to live because they were willing to Subjugate themselves as second class citizens, with Allah being the high authority.  Now, what about that fact is unable for you to get through your brain?

And did not Jews once own that land?  Is it not their acknowledged homeland, for hundreds of years?   If someone steals your property, and then sells to another, according to law, who is the real owner.  And "I know, I know", those Jews also did the same thing to those living in that area before the First Temple, so please........  

Further, you have conveniently overlooking the fact that the strategy being used is a legal one, i.e. legally purchasing land from Palestinians, which legally become Jewish land.  Are they not doing this?  Why haven't you even lowered yourself to comment on it.  Is it due to 'skimming', or because you have no legitimate answer?

Quote:Why is it OK for you and not others?  

I already showed a graph of terror events before and after 1967, the local Arabs had accepted Israel in the 1967 situation. They are not now and will never allow Jews to have a free hand persecuting them outside Israel and they should not do so although I wish they would choose the route of Martin Luther King and Gandhi.

The interesting thing is that with you it is Always those "disgusting" Joos, who are doing all the persecuting of all those innocent Pals, who have the cleanest hands around.  The truth is that this entire dividing of land, and fixing imaginary borders was the real sin.  And it was committed by bureaucrats, with lowly plebes under them left to sort it all out.  So PLEASE look at ALL of the story before you cast aspersions and innuendos as others, who have been at the short end of the stick for so long.  

Anyone with the slightest lick of common sense would recognize that an Israel that runs all the way to the River Jordan and Dead Sea is a Natural boundary.  The Real Palestinian state is the East Bank, in a place called Jordan.  And note that you don't see any Jew buying up East Bank property.  Well, do you?

Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of those historic Palestinians living on the West Bank are from former Jews before the Religion of Peace and Love came in and made everyone an offer they could not refuse.  The best solution would be for those closet Jews to come out and renounce The "Big Mo", and then see what would happen.

I once posted that video where it showed how so many 'official' Muslims were not only closet Jews, but still practicing behind closed doors, out of fear for their lives.  Did you not bother watching it?  

As for Gandhi and King, yeah that would all be great.   Tell you what, the day you locate a follower of Islam, who practices the same thing as those two, then I may believe there is a minute chance of it ever occurring.  It would be most interesting to see just how long he(certainly not a she) manages to survive in public, or behind closed doors.  

And yes, I too wish for peaceful solutions.  Hell, I'm a practicing Christian, and pay attention to what Jesus/Yeshua has been preaching. But as long as that terrible excuse for a religion survives and thrives, you will Never find peace unless everyone else allows themselves to be enslaved by it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#65
Fred,

No decent human would do that. That's not the point here.

From my perspective, I do not have the right to harm another person even if they are persecuting me. Just if they are about to rape or murder me.

I didn't say I approve of it. I don't and I don't approve of Jews doing the same "disgusting" from a distance by shooting artillery shells into Gaza either when they know it will kill non combatants. That's the difference between you, John and I, I can see "disgusting" even when Jews are "disgusting", not just everyone else or just Muslims.

The Arabs in the west bank have an extreme angst towards Israelis for the way Israelis are treating them and if they were all Zoroastrians, Christians, atheists or Hindus they would as well. So would you. So would John Kelly.

That area is not Israel and Israel isn't sending Jews there for security, they do so for cheap land. I've posted a map before, you cannot drive 200 meters w/o being stopped by a Jewish soldier, no group of humans on earth would accept that in their land. In effect, Arabs are slaves to Jews there.

John,

The Jews were worse than 2cd class citizens in some of Europe until after the holocaust so there's that. You also know most Jews remained in Arabia and Persia after 70 AD right up until 1948 and still are in Iran.

Only at times did a Jew have a good life in Europe, every once in a while persecution reared it's ugly head and fairly consistently. Moses predicted this would be their lot. European Christians have rarely acted like a non violent all forgiving Jesus, just like American Christians.

I am not interested in a debate between Jesus and Mohammad or the 2 faiths, I worship Jesus and think Islam sucks ass, sucks a hog's ass to be specific comparatively speaking. Islam compared to Jesus isn't a fair fight.

Where you miss the mark here is objectivity. Islam is tangential here, it is Israel that is driving the angst. The problem is how Israelis are treating their neighbors, unarmed neighbors just so you know. If they had Israel's firepower, it would not be happening.

No, I don't think Jews are "disgusting".

I have excellent logic for opposing Jews mistreating their neighbors in Israel. Those that are supportive are "disgusting" IF they have seen reality and not lived in a pr cocoon( which I bet most do). Most are like you I suppose, they assume Israel has to do that to survive.

When a Jew persecutes someone, it is wrong. Same as gentiles.

The problem in the WB and EJ is Israel. I don't give a shit if they're Jews, Canadians or Australian aboriginees, they are fucking the Arabs bad in those 2 areas. You wouldn't tolerate it.

The Jews have not bought that land beyond 15% in a normal free exchange. In 1947 Jews owned 15% of Palestine. I've posted this with charts based on UN data. They both went to war after the Arabs refused to agree to a 50-50 split that the UN offered. You would have yourself advised war under those conditions, we both know it.

The terrorism went down year after year right up to 1967 when it exploded again, another chart I have posted for you.

The local Arabs had come to terms with Israel pre 1967. Now, with Israeli Jews treating the local Arabs as if they are in their pseudo slaves, you can't imagine why they would have angst as normal humans.

If it was the other way around, you'd be screaming so loud my ears would hurt.

You can't even acknowledge that.
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#66
(07-04-2016, 02:44 PM)Palladin Wrote: From my perspective, I do not have the right to harm another person even if they are persecuting me. Just if they are about to rape or murder me.

I assume that also includes bullying, constant harassment, false imprisonment, or confiscation of property, right?


Quote:John,

The Jews were worse than 2cd class citizens in some of  Europe until after the holocaust so there's that. You also know most Jews remained in Arabia and Persia after 70 AD right up until 1948 and still are in Iran.  

 Only at times did a Jew have a good life in Europe, every once in a while persecution reared it's ugly head and fairly consistently. Moses predicted this would be their lot. European Christians have rarely acted like a non violent all forgiving Jesus, just like American Christians.

I am totally aware of that.  Maybe you failed to read where I have stated that I majored in history as an undergraduate at The Citadel.  This includes one semester of Ancient Civilization, one semester of Medieval European Civilization, two semesters of Russian History, two semesters of British History, several semesters of American History, and lastly two semesters of Latin American History, including Medieval Spain and Spanish Conquest.  So as you can see, I am far from illiterate in history.  

I am well aware of how European Jews were treated, and this all boils down to the auspices of Church of Rome, and its official policy of using the murder of Jesus as the main bone of contention.  Up until the Reformation, the Church of Rome controlled Christian policy.  Tzars participated in the same type of persecution in Russia, even though they were oriented toward Eastern Orthodox. Somehow the Church failed to tell others that Jesus was also a Jew. Go figure.

In most countries back then, Jews were not allowed to own real property, so they rechanneled all this into intellectual and monetary pursuits, which tended to place them in the 'wealthy' category.  The fact that many of them were bankers only furthered the stereotype, because the Church was against any banker charging interest.  

Incidentally, there were very few cases of this persecution in England or its colonies.  The greatest perpetrator of all was Spain.  

As for Iran, keep in mind that Iran is not a Semitic entity.  It is Indo-European and doesn't look at other religions as do Arabs.  They are also Shia, and Shia have less animosity to others than do the Sunni.  Plus, the Iranian people have been allies of Jews for several thousand years, ever since the end of bondage in Babylon.   It is only since 1979 that things have gotten worse.

Quote: I am not interested in a debate  between Jesus and Mohammad or the 2 faiths, I worship Jesus and think Islam sucks ass, sucks a hog's ass to be specific comparatively speaking. Islam compared to Jesus isn't a fair fight.

Where you miss the mark here is objectivity. Islam is tangential here, it is Israel that is driving the angst. The problem is how Israelis are treating their neighbors, unarmed neighbors just so you know. If they had Israel's firepower, it would not be happening.

Oh, you are an objective thinker, and I am not?  LOL!  That's Rich.  S13   I'll state this again, the treaties setting up the division of the Holy Land was a classic study in Stupidity.   If you consider yourself reeking with objectivity, then perhaps you should delve a bit more deeply into all this before you pass intellectual judgement.

Quote: No, I don't think Jews are "disgusting".

Its just that in your thinking they should totally forget their own history, and the fact that for decades they were officially at war with their surrounding Arab neighbors.  And they still are in a few cases.  Let me say this one more time, they are at war, and in wartime, the rules are a bit different than during peacetime.


Quote: I have excellent logic for opposing Jews mistreating their neighbors in Israel. Those that are supportive are "disgusting" IF they have seen reality and not lived in a pr cocoon( which I bet most do). Most are like you I suppose, they assume Israel has to do that to survive.

When a Jew persecutes someone, it is wrong.  Same as gentiles.

 The problem in the WB and EJ is Israel. I don't give a shit if they're Jews, Canadians or Australian aboriginees, they are fucking the Arabs bad in those 2 areas. You wouldn't tolerate it.

I have a great idea.  Why don't you start a thread showing specific instances where the Palestinians are being screwed by the "disgusting" Israeli?  Ok?  Let's set up a specific thread to that argument and then address any and every instance where a Palestinian is being cheated, killed, or had his/her property stolen.  Do it.

Quote: The Jews have not bought that land beyond 15% in a normal free exchange. In 1947 Jews owned 15% of Palestine. I've posted this with charts based on UN data. They both went to war after the Arabs refused to agree to a 50-50 split that the UN offered. You would have yourself advised war under those conditions, we both know it.

I did not say Israel bought land.  I said that Jews(as in individuals) have made a policy of purchasing a lot of land from Palestinians, which is legal and moral.  Are you saying that the Pals are being cheated in the transaction?  

Quote:The terrorism went down year after year right up to 1967 when it exploded again, another chart I have posted for you.

The local Arabs had come to terms with Israel pre 1967. Now, with Israeli Jews treating the local Arabs as if they are in their pseudo slaves, you can't imagine why they would have angst as normal humans.

If it was the other way around, you'd be screaming so loud my ears would hurt.  

You can't even acknowledge that.

I like that, "pseudo slaves".  Do you really believe that?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#67
Anti Semitism precedes the AD era. Check out Esther as a proof, the entire book is about that issue and how Esther succeeded in shutting it down. Even in the AD, it preceded the church, read Josephus. Rome gave Jews a special allowance on not worshipping Rome's pantheon and that didn't sit well with the average Roman.

The events of 70 and 132 AD turned typical anti Jewish sentiment into a vicious as hell version, the Romans renamed Israel Palestine and Jerusalem Capitolina for example. No Jew was left alive in that land after 132 AD, the Romans covered the entire territory to kill Jews that had not fled, including real remote areas like Qumran( dead sea scrolls area).

The church allowed it to infect the hearts of the Christians for sure. My point is it was worse than Muslim anti Semitism which oddly enough does have an Islamic theological base to it, Christians don't have that excuse.

I don't think it is reasonable to assume any land sales since 1967 in EJ or the WB are free like if I sold my house to you. The local Palestinian Arab Christians in Knoxville are irate that their land in EJ was stolen and I don't think they're making it up like you do. Any sale would be under severe pressure, like a black farmer in 1880 in Mississippi when a white businessman wanted that land. Sell it or maybe wake up with your home on fire next week, great options there.

The IDF is pervasive in the WB, we don't have the US Army all over our areas because we do buy and sell freely.

Pseudo slaves is a harsh description, agreed. I do think it is reasonable because no Jews should be living in the WB or EJ w/o an invite anymore than people should be flooding in here w/o an invite. Then, add in they are taking land away from Arabs, patrolling the area with weapons and the IDF while it is illegal for the Arabs IN THEIR LANDS to own a gun.

You wouldn't accept that as reasonable treatment, so you should not support Jews doing it to Arabs 5000 miles from here either. Jump on both sides when they are wrong.

Imagine Mexico tells us we cannot go armed and Mexican soldiers are everywhere stopping us on our way to the store and Mexicans are taking our homes via violence. Oh, we also cannot have an Army, only the Mexicans can have an Army in the USA, sounds great, right?

Enlarge this map and just see for yourself. Red are IDF bases, black are Jewish settlements and know this is 14 year old data, lot more black now.

Keep in mind this isn't Israel and you already know the IDF sets up roadblocks everywhere so no Arab can travel freely in their land which they did not steal from Jews and the black areas were not sold to Jews like I would sell you my house. At times even Netanyahu has to order the IDF to forcibly remove some of the more violent Jewish groups.

http://www.juancole.com/images/2010/12/wbsettle.jpg


You know all this and ask for evidence of Israeli mis treatment of Arabs? Come on John. IF this was absolutely necessary for security purposes, I'd say that's a harsh, but, necessary thing. It has nothing to do with security of the state. Jordan is not going to invade Israel and Egypt just might one of these days and they gave Egypt the Sinai back.
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#68
So, when are you going to start that thread?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#69
Palladin Wrote:the Romans renamed Israel Palestine
So why do you blame the jews for renaming Palestine Israel?
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#70
I don't. I blame them for fucking with their neighbors outside of Israel. All decent people get upset at injustice.
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#71
Saudi Prince Nawaf al Saud on his yacht -Allah U Akbar!-:
[Image: 13599967_916725668463062_137161061013279...e=58293957]
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#72
As usual, the effects of Islam, and driving while Arab, rears its ugly head once more. And it doesn't matter which side the players either.

US-Backed Syrian ‘Moderates’ Behead 12-Year-Old

Had we just built a fence around all this area, it would have still been much cheaper than what the West is spending on our war against such an "disgusting" ideology. S18

+18 Syrian rebels Slaughter 12 years old child his father supporter of Assad 1


___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#73
More "Peace and Love" being spread around for all recipients.  S13

Pakistan suicide bomb attack leaves at least 70 dead in 'one of worst attacks in country's history'

Quote:A suicide bomber has killed at least 70 people as they gathered to mourn a murdered journalist in Pakistan.

The devastating attack took place at a hospital in Quettain, in the violence-plagued southwestern province of Baluchistan.

The bomber struck as more than 100 grievers, mostly lawyers and journalists, crowded into the emergency department to accompany the body of a prominent lawyer, who had been shot and killed in the city earlier in the day.

"There are many wounded, so the death toll could rise," said Rehmat Saleh Baloch, the provincial health minister.

Boy, this savior really hit the jackpot, didn't he?  "Mostly lawyers and journalists". Just look at all the suits and ties.  S13

[Image: PAY-bomb-explosion-in-restive-Quetta-Pakistan.jpg]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#74
[Image: 13873011_931572933645002_470445154091795...e=581FBB68]
OG Beach Volley 2016: Egypt (left) - Germany (rigth)
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#75
Yeah, they're absolutely nuts.  Why don't they host their own Olympics?  

Oh, wait a minute.  They would call it something else, wouldn't they?  Something in Islam Speak I guess.  Gah

That way they could have throat cutting competition. Beheading would be scored on how graceful, and how few strokes required. They could also have a medal for shooting..............unbelievers. Something like that. S18
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#76
If a female Islamic athlete won, if the judges could identify her she would need to be stoned.

However, the way some Imams think, one could easily convey some special dispensation on a female athlete who won, say, give her the rights of a man?
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#77
"US backed rebels behead 12 year old".
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#78
[Image: 13716082_1160002484056137_16282089777332...e=58157536]
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#79
Do you really believe that Fred?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#80
Yes. When it reaches a certain level, religion treathens democracy.
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