Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Islam - see them for what they are
#21
History shows that for some reason, it is those who are most like the group in power, that are only slightly different, that are viewed as the greatest threat. Not many atheists were ever burned at the stake. Michael Servetus was burned at the stake at the behest (or with the approval) of John Calvin, a fellow Protestant, for teaching doctrines that were slightly different from those Calvin approved of (such as soul-sleep, the teaching that human souls are not naturally immortal, and sleep in an unconscious state until the Resurrection--which as I see it, is precisely what the Bible teaches). Servetus was also supposed to have had an unconventional view of the Trinity. But then Calvin's predestination doctrine is nuts, far outside the pale of orthodox Protestantism, as far as I can see. But Calvin held political power.
Reply
#22
Hate has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with the super flawed human heart. The folks humans hate generally are who you live near and are competing with for control.

Southern Baptist racists would not have hated blacks if they had not been brought here. They would have stuck with hating Jews and Catholics.
Reply
#23
In the same vein, there is very little prejudice against native Americans--except close to reservations.
Reply
#24
Palladin, the Ottoman never ruled Spain. But you probably mean the Omeyades (if I don't write a error either).
Reply
#25
The Moors ruled Spain until Martel, and the new Christian inventions of Reins and Stirrups eclipsed the supposed greatest horse soldiers in the world.

All links to "Omeyades" came up in French. Maybe "Umayyad", which was was the second Caliphate after Mohammad? The Hammer was in 732.
Reply
#26
Fred,

Correct. Still the same point, the Spaniards do not see their Muslim rulers like all of us( except myself) sees them. Their rule far exceeded that of the Christians in later eras in Spain and France.

It can be terrible or pretty good rule based on the cultural influences at the time and wahabbi Islam has trillions of evangelistic dollars to push their version.
Reply
#27
(05-06-2016, 10:45 AM)Palladin Wrote: Fred,

 It can be terrible or pretty good rule based on the cultural influences at the time and wahabbi Islam has trillions of evangelistic dollars to push their version.

Again, agreed.  It is easy to tell a Wahhabbi mosque from others, because they love plain and ugly.  The Turkish model is beauty and art, taken after their conquered Byzantine predecessors.  

However, Islam is still Islam, and its all there in writing.  There is no creed of Love and Forgiveness, as with the New Testament.  That cannot be changed, unless completely rewritten.  So, it is an eternal battle between individual "forgiveness" and autocratic "vengeance".   That is why the two will never really mix.  

If you(second person plural) think subjugation and autocracy are the way to go, then become part of the Collective, get in line, and bow down to the ultimate dictator.  

If you(second person plural) think love and forgiveness is the ultimate manna from heaven, and it is accomplished individually, then welcome to Christianity.  

The two, when applied as directed, cannot coexist, because it is at its core Individualism vs Collectivism.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#28
John,

Yes, that's accurate and any reasonable human would agree that any current western alternative exceeds it in beauty, fairness, etc.

However, I repeat, you and I both would have lived easier under Ottoman rule than living in France or Spain for several centuries.

When Christians have flawed perspectives, we ourselves can become quite destructive and "disgusting". Today's Christian fundy is way more likely to cause tyranny and destruction than a Sufi or Ahmadi Muslim is right now for example.
Reply
#29
(05-06-2016, 11:43 AM)Palladin Wrote: John,

 However, I repeat, you and I both would have lived easier under Ottoman rule than living in France or Spain for several centuries.

Well, of course they did.  Ain't benevolent slavery great?   Keep the others shackled loosely, and use the system as a comparison for other Islamic Autocracies, and they will be less willing to revolt.  Works every time.  Spiteful

Quote:When Christians have flawed perspectives, we ourselves can become quite destructive and "disgusting". Today's Christian fundy is way more likely to cause tyranny and destruction than a Sufi or Ahmadi Muslim is right now for example.

Well, no shit Sherlock, the West is very, very good at total war.  I'll bet you didn't bother reading my earlier post, right?  His work tells exactly why the West can be so destructive, and continue to win wars.  Take the time and study it.  Gah

Further, do you always practice what you preach with relation to others?  And if you are like other Christians of yessteryear, does that also make you "disgusting" according to your current religious perspective?  

We all do things according to what we think is in our self-interest. Its the one driving force that has allow us to pass our genes to the next generation and become such a successful species. Should we now completely throw 'self-interest' into the toilet?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#30
(05-06-2016, 11:43 AM)Palladin Wrote: ...Today's Christian fundy is way more likely to cause tyranny and destruction than a Sufi or Ahmadi Muslim is right now for example.

Only in a very limited sense. The Christian, Fundy or not, is most likely to err on the side of forgiveness and coexistence than the others. The Westerners who have power and technology have more power capability behind them than the Muslims with feelings of umbrage and entitlement but nothing but rocks and knives behind them. Having such limiting weaponry is probably what makes their culture reward beheadings and stonings. If these are the only ammo one has, then using them is needed to aggrandize their warriors.
Reply
#31
Islam Victories of the Day:

Islamist rebels seize village near Aleppo, 73 killed

London's Mayor is Muslim

My comment: One more reason why the UK should leave the EU.
Reply
#32
(05-06-2016, 04:52 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: My comment: One more reason why the UK should leave the EU.

Wait a minute Fred. I don't remember you ever saying that before.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#33
Seriously, ask yourselves why London has so many Muslims. Because the people of the UK thought they were God's gift to rule the world. Americans, wise up fast. Give up the Roman empire mentality.
Reply
#34
(05-06-2016, 08:16 PM)Palladin Wrote: Seriously, ask yourselves why London has so many Muslims. Because the people of the UK thought they were God's gift to rule the world. Americans, wise up fast. Give up the Roman empire mentality.

Oh Bullshit. There are so many there because 1) the Brits have grown lazy, both morally and intellectually, and 2) those Muslims are coming from the Commonwealth countries, where England used to colonize. They did this legally, before the EU required all their members, including GB, to open their doors and arms to Islam.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#35
John,

A lot of them are there because the UK colonized their native nations. France and the UK have more Muslims than non colonial European states. How many Muslims live in Poland and Bulgaria? Almost none would live in Germany if the allies had not killed off their men in WWII, they only have those Turks cause we killed off their future labor supply and they murdered the rest themselves in the holocaust.

Not that many live in Spain and that was Islamic ruled land at one time. It's colonialism that has caused this influx and our stupid damned Roman empire mentality is drawing them here.

If the US had not entered the Vietnam war, how many Vietnamese would live here compared to how many do? This isn't hard John, except for you.

William,

Unfortunately, you're wrong on the Christian fundy. I wish you were right.

They are oriented to punishment and sin way too much, not grace, forgiveness and virtue love. Couple that flawed theology with their desire for the state to serve as the hammer for their concept of God. Which is not the biblical concept.

Don't get me wrong, Christians of any sort have 0 influence left on this society and I am not worried about this happening here. I just mean that a SOP fundy would be more likely in this society to have me in jail than an Ahmadi or Sufi Muslim would if both had the ability to do so.

I have family members who have sat in parking lots of strip clubs, written down license plates and contacted wives later. That's "fighting sin" in their book. Imagine if those stupid asses held sway with the government?

That's what you have to understand, you can be a believer, but, not a follower of Christ's. I was most of my life, I ought to know. My experience is most of us don't care to really serve Christ because what is important to us is not important to Him. What is important to Him is anathema for the normal human, like considering the concerns of others at the same level we care for ourselves.

That sure isn't my natural desire.
Reply
#36
Muslims are in western Europe because we had a lack of labour force in the 60's. Being post-colonial power facilitated but it was not the reason. Many non-post-colonial powers have as many muslim as France and UK. The reason was that we needed workers in our factories. It's not related to the killing of the workforce in ww2 because it started 20 years later. Maybe ww2 still had an effect in the 60's but the real reason was the industrial and real estate developement booming at this time.
Reply
#37
Correct. Except I think in the UK they could come and go as they pleased due to the original colonial status and then the commonwealth status. Germany had to go out of her way to invite Turks in after WWII, the French and Brits had colonial Arabs and Indians waiting to come.


WWII definitely caused a manpower shortage.
Reply
#38
(05-09-2016, 06:14 PM)Palladin Wrote: WWII definitely caused a manpower shortage.

Post WWII also definitely caused a womanpower shortage. Once the young widows, and girls entering puberty learned how to shave their legs and under their arms, they were able to attract and marry thousands of GIs stationed over there. And naturally, the GIs brought them home to the US. Spiteful
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

Reply
#39
(05-09-2016, 05:52 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Muslims are in western Europe because we had a lack of labour force in the 60's....

That may be part of the answer - but another viewpoint is much more apt. The main reason anyone travels that far for work, is because there is nothing to keep them employed at home. In the mid 1800's the cotton gin and later on, the Civil War destroyed the job market in the South, and Southern workers went North for work. A few years later, the black work force moving North caused labor costs to dive. However, Henry Ford was a racist and refused to hire Blacks for his assembly lines - instead he looked around for other cheap work forces, and found lighter-skinned workers in The Middle East who would work as cheap.

Nothing to keep workers earning a living in the South - nothing to keep workers earning a living in the Middle East.

What has happened since then? The only difference in labor costs in the South comes from Unionization up north, so the jobs go south. In the Middle East, failed economies mean failed jobs.
Reply
#40
We really didn't create jobs down here until the mid 1970s. I had to leave to get a job myself at 18.

Since then, Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte and Nashville all have become job producing engines.

Air conditioning, plus the dimunition of racism, enhancing of educational levels all conspired to draw investment down here. I wish southerners were not so hostile to unions though.

As far as the "failed economies" of Arabia, it's hard to create wealth when foreign nations explode your nation. Syria and Iraq could have done OK w/o western meddling. They weren't fleeing to Europe until then and I have yet to ever read of a mass Arab migration before right now, have you ever read of one?
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)