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Turkey's Move to Islamic Autocracy
I'll be for Russia and Syria if there is a war, even if the USA is involved. Be the first time I have actively desired we lose a war if it happens. We're so on the wrong side of this thing it hurts.
Turkey has the Istanbul blast, the state of course has ID the perp, a SYRIAN KURD and Turks are as bad as Americans, it will be gospel truth to the people.

Turkey is prepping to invade Syria. North Korea is prepping to invade the south according to reports. The SK state shut down the Kaesong factory and that's a strong move for war.

I hope this is all wrong, but, I think we're about to have a cataclysm. It's hard to imagine Putin would be caught off guard here, we'll see about Russia's role and NATO.
One thing is certain: the war is not over yet. Many powers wrestling for the control of Syria. Who controls Syria controls the new pipelines routes.
(02-18-2016, 03:06 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: One thing is certain: the war is not over yet. Many powers wrestling for the control of Syria. Who controls Syria controls the new pipelines routes.

BINGO! Same thing with Ukraine. That's why both are so important to the West.
"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
Why would Syria need to be emasculated to cause them to want the revenue from a new oil pipeline? Also, why would a human with a conscience support the brutality of war to have a new pipeline, it isn't like the world is suffering a shortage.

Heating up in Syria, who's side are you on? I'm with Russia, Syria and the YPD:
I hope this is accurate. Turkey will not like this, especially if some show up in Turkey:
[Image: 242351_mainleft.jpg]

Islamo-Fascism continues to clamp down on any of Erdogan's opposition.

Police raid offices of popular critical newspaper in Turkey after government seizure
An Istanbul court has ordered the newspaper Zaman, Turkey's bestselling daily newspaper, into administration, which it described as "deeply concerning"

Quote:Turkey's bestselling daily opposition newspaper, critical of the Turkish president, has been seized by a court, raising fears over the government's crackdown on journalists and media groups. Popular daily Zaman, linked to the self-exiled preacher Fethullah Gulen, has been ordered into administration by an Istanbul court after a request from state prosecutors, Turkey's Anadolu agency said.

Police raided the offices of the newspaper on Friday night after hundreds of readers and Zaman supporters were outside the newspaper's offices in Istanbul protesting against the court's decision despite heavy rain. They had been chanting "free press cannot be silenced" as well as holding placards which said: "Don't touch my newspaper."

The order issued on Friday means that trustees will be appointed for the newspaper to take over management, the newspaper's sister English publication, Today's Zaman reported. According to reports, trustees would include Metin Ilhan, a lawyer who also appeared to be a supporter of the ruling party and Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Zaman is often cited as Turkey's largest newspaper by circulation with more than 630,000 copies sold a day.

What I find most worrisome is that the major news outlets here in the US are not reporting this. There is also nothing on DrudgeReport, Breitbart, or The Blaze. But it is coming out on "The Right Scoop", and maybe one or two other Conservative blogs. This is Huge news and it should be plastered all over the place, in order to show just how much dictatorial power Erdogan is grabbing.

"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
Here is a major NATO ally.

You have spent a whole lot of time denigrating Russia for stuff like this. This is our ally and we will go to war for Turkey in some cases.

Saudi Arabia is a major ally. Yet, we could make war on Russia over either of these 2 "allies".
Yes we stick with Turkey and S-A as official allies while we know very well how dangerous they are to our civilisation. S-A has always been like this. But Turkey has been sinking to depths never seen since Mohamet II.
This current "hyper religious" phase within the Islamic regions, when does it peak?
Most US readers will ignore this and most of it is factual, some is opinion.

I know we overthrew the Iranian government, I never heard of our Syrian stuff and honestly, did not know about our Jordanian and Iraqi stuff in the 1950s, I thought that was British meddling.

I hate to say it, but, our government has been pretty evil at least since 1949 in it's foreign reach:

I don't see how a citizen with any decency cannot see this and this article sort of shoots down the saw William preaches that the CIA was a force for good,but, was restrained by the evil liberals in the US Senate under Frank Church. Wrong, Church served the people properly, the CIA is as evil as the KGB ever thought of being:

Very interresting article. I didn't finish to read it yet but it's very interresting.
I'm not saying that what the CIA and Big Oil did was good, but we tend to forget the ambiance of the Cold War when we feared to be nuked by the Soviets and when Stalin was still alive or just died.
It's very easy to call Soviet puppets "democraticaly elected, modern, secular" and other compliments. "Neutralist": Yeah, sure! We know how much the CIA paid their dictators but we don't know how many millions the USSR gave. And don't tell me the arabs and persians didn't recieve anything.
We are still waiting a Russian Kennedy to expose all the Cold War and post Colr War scandals...

Now about today's Syrian Pipeline War: Why would a Qatari pipeline be an existential treath to Russia while an Iranian pipeline wouldn't be? Please explain!
Did we realy wanted to get Europe deserved exclusively by the Russia/Iran axis? Relying less on Russian gaz in the light of what happened in Eastern Ukraine made perfect sens.

And why Assad couldn't allow the building of two pipelines, one Qatari and the other Iranian and play the concurence?

I had a book that I have lost titled, "A Legacy of Ashes". The author refers to it. It's a history of the CIA.

The really weird thing is not just the heinous stuff they have done, it's how ineffective it all was. Like, look at Syria and Iran in 2016. Lot of good we did creating murderous chaos in 1949, right? I bet those CIA agents if they were alive now would be proud at their successes( just kidding).

If I was a hitman for the mob, I'd be more effective than the US CIA. Same morality, more effective.

I understand your view of Russia, but, they have not been more "chaos creating" than we have. Maybe more a threat to you than us, but, not to the entire planet than us.

I honestly don't think many Americans realize what we've done over seas, I am a big reader and this is the first I ever read of this shit.

BTW, no self respecting Arab would deal with the USA if they know this. Those that do are our lackeys. I wouldn't even allow a US ambassador to step foot in my country if I ran one.

The kings of Jordan and Saudi Arabia would suck Uncle Sam's ding dong on Fifth Avenue and that's just not how most folks want their leaders to act. This is way beyond a guy like Assad saying, "well, yea, we can do business". I respect him for not caving to US demands now that I get what the deal is.

Like the article says, Americans are not even aware of this, but, Syrians, it's an everyday thing since the early cold war era.
Palladin, The chaos was not caused by the CIA or the KGB. The chaos was caused by these arab leaders who let themselves so easily bribed by the CIA or the KGB or both at the same time. And then act violently against their own poeple because since they live on bribery there can't be any democratic process.
The CIA helped put in place leaders who would defend US (or US Oil's) interrests, but how these leqders behqve is non of their business up to a certain extent.
The CIA helped Saddam, bin Laden, ISIS... but the goal was not to torture and oppress ethnic monorities. And at the end these ones became our ennemies for this reason.
I think the reason for CIA's mistakes is that it's impossible to foreseen who will be good and who will be bad. I don't think the americans thought Saddam was a bad guy in the 60's and the Mujahedeens were seen as romanesque freedom fighters. And the reason for this is that all these tyrans have no political program (except the Islamists). You put them on power and you don't know what they will do. They all pretend to be democratic inspired by the US model, while they all behave like Nababs, using state revenues as their personal property.
Saddam didn't kill so many people because he was helped by the CIA and Khomeyni didn't became a radical islamic mullah because he was helped by France and bin Laden didn't blow up the Twins Towers because we used him against the Soviets. These leaders did this because they were like this. We didn't eduicate them, we just gave them some money, and sometimes weapons.

To sum it up: I believe that external influences play a minimal role in the ability of a society, country or leadership to rule correctly over the country and apply the proper democratic principles.

They suck because they suck and that's why it's so easy for the CIA, M16, KGB/FSB, Mossad and other western agencies to play with them.

Try to play the same game with Chinese of the Japanese, not the same piece of cake.

The CIA did exactely the same thing in Europe after WW2 to counter the USSR: Murky operations, fake terrorist attacks, propaganda, political meddling and even assassinations. Search for "Operation Gladio", you will be disgusted, I promise. These mafia style methods didn't last in Europe and we didn't became arabs. Did we?

According to the article we were direct catalysts for constant coup de etats in Syria because either we had a hard time finding a Syrian who would do our bidding or when we did, the people for some reason didn't like the guy.

You can blame it on crappy Arab leaders, I will hold my own nation responsible for the evil shit we do to other people for 1 reason, enhancing our power.

As a Christian, I hold my nation in extremely low esteem for this shit. I help pay for this shit and Fred, I hate it like I hate hell.
I meant to post this article last week, but over-wrote it with something on that tab, until just a while ago. It is about Erdogan, and his supposed short time remaining in power.


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Quote:Turkish President Recep Teyyip Erdogan’s attempts to demonize the Syrian Kurd’s YPG army and threaten and bully the United States are having the net effect of creating a powerful movement for his removal based on a rationale that will encourage the public in the United States and Europe to forget the real culprits in the tragic attack on Syria and focus on charges of genocide leveled against ISIS. The genocide charge will be tied to Erdogan as a result of his documented support for ISIS and ultimately doom his increasingly dictatorial rule of Turkey. Rather than divert the attention of Turks from his crimes and massive negligence as a means to preserve his power, Erdogan’s castigation of the Kurds and, more significantly, his public blackmail of the U.S. will spell his doom in the near future.

You just have to love the last sentence of the article.

Quote:Erdogan is already doomed. He just doesn’t know it

I wonder how many more opposition newspapers he is going to "nationalize" before enough citizens cry "Enough!"?
"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
This was a huge Erdogan supporter:
Quote:When the so-called Arab Spring started, I had claimed that there was only one spring in the region — that of Turkey under Erdogan. Now, I face a single, difficult question: what went wrong?

In a word,....Islam. Whenever you combine a religious autocrat, and an autocratic religion,.....

Once the military, which has always been devoted to the ideals of Mustafa Atatürk's representative Secular government, the two entities above were not allowed to run away with things. But if you will note, the military was the very first thing Erdogan went out of his way to castrate.

Quote:While many people abroad still think of Erdogan as the kind of powerful Muslim leader the Muslim world yearned for, the Turkish media has already started to realise that the worst is yet to come. I, on the other hand, will continue to fight for the future of Turkish democracy, trying to raise awareness in the world that every dictator is bad, but a religious dictator is worse, as he corrupts not only politics, but also religion.

Spoken as a well meaning Muslim, who still doesn't realize that Islam is already a corruption. And too, he still hasn't realized that Islam cannot be 'fixed'.

So much for Atatürk's Grand Experiment in secularizing a Muslim country. This whole thing reminds me of Bill Cosby's skit about the new parents who thought even the baby's poop was cute, until one day g-d added stink to the equation. S18

Go to two minutes until four minutes. S22

Bill Cosby: Himself Part 5

"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
This is why I get riled up at Christians who can't understand this here. The same problem happens, the governance goes south and so does your faith by being mixed with the corruption of the state.

All religions and all states need to be separate entirely. If a religion is benign and intrinsic good, it will have the necessary influence w/o trying to cram it down people's throats via the power of the state.

If the religion sucks, the state is better w/o it anyway.
Turkey seizes six churches as state property in volatile southeast

Quote:After 10 months of urban conflict in Turkey’s war-torn southeast, the government has expropriated huge sections of property, apparently to rebuild and restore the historical centre of the region’s largest city, Diyarbakir.

But to the dismay of the city’s handful of Christian congregations, this includes all its Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches. Unlike the state-funded mosques, Turkey’s ancient church buildings – some of which pre-date Islam – have been managed, historically, by church foundations.
But all this is not new, as Red State reported last year in Turkey’s quiet Christian genocide.

The point is that Turkey has been slowly and methodically tightening the screws on All Christian communities in the country.  The churches are not allowed to own property, and if you don't own property, you have no real legal standing.  Therefore, the State can come in and confiscate anything they wish, and Christians are sudden'y without their house of worship.  
I never realized this before reading this article.  So Turkey is no better than other Islamic nations, and in many cases far worse.
"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710

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