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European Jihad - Paris, London, Brussels Terrorized
Perhaps Europe is finally beginning to see the light?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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And speaking about Brussels, and the Comedy of Errors.....................................

Foreign fighters are evading Europe's security net
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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There is an obvious flaw in the security aparatus. But it's also extremely difficult to filter everybody. The Belgians and the Dutch didn't pay enough attention and the Turks didn't give enough information.
Datas showing that he was a terrorist were not clear at all. The best we could know was that he could be a terrorist. Just like thousands of other poeple like him.
Other terrorists never went to Syria, never had any police record and were never seen at radical gatherings. They still blow themselves up.
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The European Union was created to imitate the United States of America - but without a Constitutionally limited Federal aspect to address problems that cross national boundaries. As it is, there are no walls, and once a terrorist enters one country - he enters all countries. Putting together a security apparatus that works is hard to imagine.
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No, Wm, it was never meant to imitate the US. And at the time we created free travel zones there were no such terrorism as we see today.
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(04-04-2016, 05:15 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: No, Wm, it was never meant to imitate the US. And at the time we created free travel zones there were no such terrorism as we see today.

Perhaps the EU should have spent more time copying the US model.
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(04-04-2016, 06:24 PM)WarBicycle Wrote:
(04-04-2016, 05:15 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: No, Wm, it was never meant to imitate the US. And at the time we created free travel zones there were no such terrorism as we see today.

Perhaps the EU should have spent more time copying the US model.

No chance of that happening Ronald.  The EU was created by bureaucrats, for bureaucrats, and of bureaucrats.  To them the State and centralized systems are meant to be complex and organized to what bureaucrats can keep under control.  Or so they think.

The United States, and its constitution, was created by Individualists, having a more than healthy fear of just such things.  Note that the US Constitution is only a few pages long, while the EU constitution is almost five hundred pages.  No way in hell that could ever happen.   Shock

Quote:A Tale of Two Documents: the EU Constitution vs. the US Constitution

The documents the two groups produced could not be more different. The American Constitution succinctly lays out the structure of the proposed government and the specific powers of each branch. It consists of seven articles. My copy is a small pamphlet, 3 ½ by 6 ½ inches, of sixteen pages. Many Americans carry their copies around in their pockets. By contrast, the EU Constitution consists of some 448 articles that fill 485 pages and has been called more a novel than a constitution. It's not much of a novel, though, as it is widely acknowledged to be unreadable, and is largely unread.


This key difference in size and clarity goes to the heart of the enterprise. The American drafters assigned their new government only those tasks for which a central government was essential. They were jealous of their individual liberties and of the powers of their states, and reluctant to cede expansive authority to a central government. Anything not specifically granted to the federal government belonged to the people and to the individual states. The EU Constitution works in the opposite way, anything not explicitly the people's or their government's belongs to Brussels. True, the EU Constitution claims to protect national sovereignty by "subsidiarity" - translation, decisions are always to be taken at the lowest level "compatible with the project of Union". The level appropriate and compatible to "the project of Union", however, is to be decided by the EU government itself and its Court of Justice. The EU can impose its will until a country objects. It is unclear what standard of proof is to be used in determining "subsidiarity" but, as Roger Scruton points out in National Review, the EU Court of Justice, authorized to decide "subsidiarity", is specifically committed to "ever closer union". The list of powers already transferred under the Court's jurisdiction from member states to the European bureaucracy fills 97,000 pages.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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The US constitution is like The Ten Commands: It lays the moral base but it doesn't make the religion.
I'd bet you can find in hte US as much bureaucracy and as many pages of rules and contradictions as at the EU. ...or at least half the quantity, to be fair. S5

JohnL Wrote:
Quote:The EU Constitution works in the opposite way, anything not explicitly the people's or their government's belongs to Brussels.
That's not true. It's the opposite: Member states have absolute ruling except on what they have commonly agreed with the EU.

Americans don't understand what the EU is. They see it as a new state, as something that rules over others, as a failed enterprise because it fails to do what you expect from a governement...

The EU is not a governement.

It's a gathering of governements. The European Parliament and the European Commission don't have that much power compared to France, Germany and the UK. The EU Court of Justice? Nobody even cares about it. It's only where you can go when you want to contest a local court or mess around with human right stuffs witout substance.
The EU has no army (a rapid protection force is in the cartons thought, but has never been deployed), has no police (we still use Interpol to share datas), no border guard except a semi-private company called Frontex in the Med), no social security of its own and doesn't collect taxes.
Yet, you still find a way to call it a state and compare it to the Federal governement of the US...
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Nah... not really. The EU was designed in response to the success of the United States.

The one grievous difference was that the US is the only government in the world designed with the individual being sovereign. All other nations are designed with the State being sovereign. Don't confuse this with a monarchy with a king or emperor at the top. It is the State on top, and all laws being designed and enforced by the state for the state.

The EU had to appease the various nations to preserve each nation's sovereignty at the top, with an add-on of multi-nation sovereignty in tandem. In so doing, they missed what makes the US special.

What they most wanted was some concoction that allowed the European states to have more lucrative trade policies... something that could compete with the US.
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Perhaps some poeple thought the EU as a response, a competition to the US, but many thought the EU as just a more economicaly efficient structure.
And, I agree, there never had been any sovereign individual liberties in the fundation of the EU. That's why it's not the US. But it's not something that we missed as if we tried to duplicate. It wasn't the idea. And I think this idea can exist and succeed only in the US. Nowhere else.

Here in Europe when we talk liberties we are not talking about freedom of starting a business unimpeded or to find the job which suits your skills and work as your feel like.
In Europe individual liberties means that you can get social benefits and that workers should be given a job either from the governement or from private companies by governement decree.
But this is not specific to or in the spirit of the EU.
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(04-07-2016, 08:03 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Perhaps some poeple thought the EU as a response, a competition to the US, but many thought the EU as just a more economicaly efficient structure.
And, I agree, there never had been any sovereign individual liberties in the fundation of the EU. That's why it's not the US. But it's not something that we missed as if we tried to duplicate. It wasn't the idea. And I think this idea can exist and succeed only in the US. Nowhere else.

Here in Europe when we talk liberties we are not talking about freedom of starting a business unimpeded or to find the job which suits your skills and work as your feel like.
In Europe individual liberties means that you can get social benefits and that workers should be given a job either from the governement or from private companies by governement decree.
But this is not specific to or in the spirit of the EU.

So what you are really saying Fred, is that with the EU it is "Collective" Liberties, not Individual ones, which rule the roost, eh?  Isn't that really just another term for "Euro-Socialism"?
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Not "with the EU". It has nothing to do with the EU. It's how poeple think here. Leftist/collectivist minded poeple. And non-leftist poeple are influenced by this thinking too. In other words we don't think about individual liberties as you do in the US. Not so highly. It doesn't mean we don't have liberties. We have as much or almost as much liberty in Europe as in the US, but we are not thinking or talking about it that much. It's not "the basis of our constitution".

Here we talk more about "social rights".

Ooooh my, how "social rights" are important, in Belgium....and in France!
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(04-08-2016, 06:48 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Not "with the EU". It has nothing to do with the EU. It's how poeple think here. Leftist/collectivist minded poeple. And non-leftist poeple are influenced by this thinking too. In other words we don't think about individual liberties as you do in the US. Not so highly. It doesn't mean we don't have liberties. We have as much or almost as much liberty in Europe as in the US, but we are not thinking or talking about it that much. It's not "the basis of our constitution".

Here we talk more about "social rights".

Ooooh my, how "social rights" are important, in Belgium....and in France!

Just like I said, social justice, social rights, social.........,  its all the same.  Its code for "Group rights", or to be more specific, "Collective Rights".  And of course its different from Individual Liberties.  Why do you think anyone over there can be arrested for publicly saying negative things about Islam?  

The collective trumps the individual.  Of course Euros don't think of rights as we do.  We still have the US Constitution to protect our Liberties.  That's why the Left here is doing its best to subvert it.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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I hearken back to the time when Ireland was holding out against joining the EU. At the time, all the economic metrics of Ireland was far better than any EU state. They were threatened and coerced into joining, and once they did, saw all those good metrics take a nosedive, until they were as bad as everyone else. In a way, this is the definition of what socialism means and does.
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No, Ireland took a nosedive because of credit burst (subprimes) and their economy boomed long after they joined the EU. The EU is one of the things in Europe which is not socialist by design or concept.

But if you want to know why making jobs easier is impossible in France, read about this event.

The far-left believe that making lay-offs harder and more expensive is protecting jobs while it's the opposite because it prevents job creations. It makes hiring workers riskier and companies are hiring less. In place like France or Belgium it's almost impossible to make such a change.
In Belgium it's like a scandal because the governement wants to legalize worktime flexibility a little bit. Until now, working overtime was prohibitively expensive and an administrative nightmare.
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Fred, it is still Statist at best, and Collectivist at worst.   The EU is bureaucracy par excellence.  That's why the very document they wished to copy(US Constitution), which was about nine pages, ended up being almost nine hundred pages.   That is a classic example as to why bureaucrats are among the lowest of the low,........along with politicians, lawyers, and child molesters.   Spiteful

And truth be told, there are far more cases, where all of the above is frequently bundled into one person.   S18
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Unbelievable: 8 soldiers presents at the scene of shooting in the concert hall in Paris were not allowed fire back at the terrorists and not willing to disobey orders to keep away.

nouvelobs Wrote:The instruction given by radio to the police is clear: the chief "replied in the negative and said
Quote:the military is only there in support, they can not intervene
End of the conversation.
Later...
nouvelobs Wrote:"Then the policeman said,
Quote:'Well, give me your Famas (military assault riffle)
The military refused to part with his gun. "

translated link (I corrected a translation mistake in the quote above)

original link
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I don't even have to read the article to be almost 95% accurate as to why they didn't work together.  It was a leadership problem, with both branches jealous of the other's potential to hog all the limelight and power.  In a word, Hubris mixed with adolescence.  Its the same thing over here and practically everywhere on the planet.  

Neither side wanted the other telling them what to do, so they simply refused to cooperate together.   Its childish, and illogical, but emotions and possessiveness rule the roost.   Even my CharlieK is like that.  Anytime Michael's Gizmo visits me and wants to cuddle, charlie gets jealous and will force himself physically between the two of us.  He's just jealous, because he is afraid Gizmo is going to get all of the attention or snacks.   Spiteful


As for not handing over the weapons each soldier was signed for, that is understandable.  Every round that exits the barrel, each soldier is directly responsible for what damages it causes. And since each rifle has a unique serial number assigned to each soldier, their weapon is their responsibility. Its the leadership that is at fault here.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Yes, it's the reason. Afterward they quote a serie of laws to justify this. It doesn't make us feel safer...
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So, just how bad can it possibly get for Europe, in the future. Well, here is a good indicator of what we can expect all over.

Isis training children of foreign fighters to become 'next generation' of terrorists
At least 50 British children are believed to be among those living in the group's territories


Even if ISIS is defeated, it will just be another Islamic jhadist organization that will be following it.

ISIS Traning Camp:Created Video


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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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