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European Jihad - Paris, London, Brussels Terrorized
(12-10-2015, 09:04 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: John, I don't think that they are one hundred military chemists who realy know their stuffs (I'm not talking about the personel mopping the corridors) in the whole USA, so how the ISIL could have that many?

One thing is to know how to use a ready push-and-run chemical time bomb, another thing is to know how to produce the chemical components in quantities and contain them porperly and apply the proper detonators to it. The Iranians had a huge lab to test nuke detonators. I guess for chemicals it's as complicated as for nukes.
To blow the bomb it's easy, but what if the chemicals got burned in the process?

Fred, almost all chemical weapons, i.e. nerve agents, are binary weapons. In other words, each ingredient is not deadly until they are mixed together.
Mustard is not a binary weapon, and can even have more problems being applied than the binary ones. But both types are not as hard to work with as it appears. That's why the authorities will jump through hoops in order to prevent their use.

Also, there is "chlorine" and "phosgene", which are even easier to concoct.

Fortunately they are easy to get rid of once applied. Ga(tabon) and Gb(sarin) are aerosols and quickly dissipate. Mustard is also uses in aerosol forms. All of them are easy to clean up after. They are a "one shot" deal. These things do not require rocket science to make and apply. Anyone with a chemistry degree can work with them.

HOWEVER, VX is an entirely different monster, requiring a high degree of sophistication beyond the average chemistry lab. But there are literally tons and tons of this nerve agent stored all over Syria. If ISIS has gotten its hands on this beast, they can reap havoc that is unbelievable.

I know I have gone over this many times, but it is the REAL threat, because not only is it a killer par excellence, but it is highly persistent. It can stick around for many months, and is a bitch to clean up after. If VX is applied in the New Yawk subway system, the entire system will be shut down for months being cleaned up.

Imagine the PR value the terrorists will reap, not to mention the high number of people killed.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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If ISIS uses VX on western targets then the West has to seriously consider using nuclear weapons in Syria and Iraq regardless of the death toll.
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(12-11-2015, 08:18 AM)WarBicycle Wrote: If ISIS uses VX on western targets then the West has to seriously consider using nuclear weapons in Syria and Iraq regardless of the death toll.

I used to have nightmares about VX. And after CBR School, it got even worse. All the rest pale in comparison. As an young adult, its always been the monster under the bed to me. That's why I go out of my way to tell others about how it horrible it is.

I fear it more than I do nuclear terrorism. I'm surprised that some horror movie maker hasn't used it as their monster.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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I'm skeptical because after so many years of heavily funded islamoterrorism and still no one chemical attack... It's either that it's not easy or that they are not interrested in that approach to Jihad.

Even a very limited attack, like two dead, 12 in bad condition at hospitals, but with the site cleaned the next day, would already provide huge advertisement to the Islamists for very cheap, and create unprecedented panic all across the western world.
If a classic AK47 attack can already trigger such a panic, I can't imagine the effect of a chemical one.

It's so clear that it's almost incomprehensible why they didn't do it already... If i was al-Baghdadi it would be my first priority.

About VX nerve agent, IMO it either realy exists and we know it and in this case, they have been destroyed by the west when we offer Assad to get rid of them in return for not bombing him. IMO if they was VX in Syria it had either been destroyed or it's existance has been unkown by the west. If the last case is true, then probably that the ISIL also ignores its existance.
I can't imagine that all the intel agencies of the world hasn't been looking into this at least as much as the terrorists.

If the ISIL were capable of using VX or any other poison, they would use it immediately. And I don't see any reason why they would be more capable in the future if they are not capable yet today. They had plenty of time to prepare for this.

IMO they don't even have a basic chemistry degree in the whole Khalifate who would be able to use even mustard gas.

It's enough to watch their videos and the profile of their fighters to know that they don't. Most of these fighters don't even have the age to finish high school.
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(12-11-2015, 06:40 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...IMO they don't even have a basic chemistry degree in the whole Khalifate who would be able to use even mustard gas.

Don't be too sure of that. There are plenty of smart people there who are acting stupid to stay out of the crosshairs.

During Saddam's era, Millions siphoned off from the "oil-for-food" program through the UN were diverted to the Military Industrial Commision, which had responsibility for many of the past [weapons of mass destruction] programs. Someone had to have the brains left in there to tie their shoes.
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The ISIS is not the Saddam's regime which was mostly secular. Before Junior's move to bring civilisation and democracy to Iraq, there were plenty of universities full of promising scientists. Now these scientists are refugees in Europe. The Kahlifate has to do with what's left after a decade of chaos and destructions, much less than what Saddam had.
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And speaking of terror:

Fourteen members of Paris synagogue poisoned

Quote:Fourteen Parisian worshippers were poisoned on Monday after their synagogue’s electronic lock was daubed with poison.

Members of the Jewish community of Bonneuil-sur-Marne, in the south-eastern suburbs of Paris, called emergency services to report a sudden strong burning sensation in their eyes and itchy rashes on their skin.

It is believed 25 firemen rushed to the synagogue, where they treated congregants and traced their condition to the daubed lock.

The substance was described as a “nonlethal irritant” and was sent to a police forensic lab for analysis.

The shul, which is under police and military protection when open, is believed to have been targeted when closed with no guard present.

Note that this poisoning was accomplished through 'touch' alone. Imagine what this would have accomplished had the poison been VX nerve agent? All a terrorist needs to is simply spray the agent on to a surface that others will touch or grasp.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Fred,

ISIS' core are Iraq military guys under Saddam. They became radicals after we invaded and they lost their fight with us and the Shiites inside Iraq.

There is no reason to think they do not have educated folks among them. "disgusting" people can be as smart as Einstein.

John,

The nuclear fear never bothered me, I always figured if it ever happened, it would be instant death like a shot to the head. That VX thing is a nasty painful looking death.
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I doubt that most terrorists would be able to handle VX without killing themselves.
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(12-17-2015, 09:10 PM)Palladin Wrote: The nuclear fear never bothered me, I always figured if it ever happened, it would be instant death like a shot to the head. That VX thing is a nasty painful looking death.

You need to rethink that view. Instead of being vaporized, picture a long, slow, painful death from cancer. That's 'modern' nuclear warfare ... it's certainly not Armageddon ... but it's still pretty nasty. John has disagreed with me, but we effectively fought the equivalent of a limited thermonuclear war in this country in the 50s and 60s. Do a search on Radiation Exposure Compensation Act (RECA).
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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(12-17-2015, 09:29 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: I doubt that most terrorists would be able to handle VX without killing themselves.

Its been over a year now since I had my last VX nightmare. But it will return again, I'm certain. Its horrible to wake up in a total sweat with that on one's mind.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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Yak,

That's a valid point.

John,

What evidence do you possess that indicates VX is "all over Syria"? That Pacepa guy? That goof had been retired for a decade, if he said the opposite you'd write him off as out of the loop like you should have with this nonsense.

There never was any VX gas in Iraq when we got there and most was used in the Iraq - Iran war and what they had we and Germany made for Saddam to illegally gas Iranian troopers. You've read the NYT reports on this, why do you persist in this nonsense?
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(12-18-2015, 11:32 AM)Palladin Wrote: John,

What evidence do you possess that indicates VX is "all over Syria"? That Pacepa guy? That goof had been retired for a decade, if he said the opposite you'd write him off as out of the loop like you should have with this nonsense.

There never was any VX gas in Iraq when we got there and most was used in the Iraq - Iran war and what they had we and Germany made for Saddam to illegally gas Iranian troopers. You've read the NYT reports on this, why do you persist in this nonsense?



You must have blown by this link, which I originally posted right here.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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That crap was destroyed by and according to the UN later after Damascus admitted they had it, it doesn't exist anymore.

You knew this, what is your point here? You know I read about current events and I know you do.

There is no "VX all over Syria". Half those areas are controlled by Sunni terrorists, they'd have that crap all over Damascus by now.
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(12-18-2015, 08:20 PM)Palladin Wrote: That crap was destroyed by and according to the UN later after Damascus admitted they had it, it doesn't exist anymore.

You knew this, what is your point here? You know I read about current events and I know you do.

There is no "VX all over Syria". Half those areas are controlled by Sunni terrorists, they'd have that crap all over Damascus by now.

I never said that VX was all over Syria. Again you are either putting words in my mouth, or once more failing to read carefully.

Furthermore, for someone who is so disbelieving of all things government, suddenly you are a true believer of what bureaucrats are stating. Can you explain your sudden selective picking and choosing?

Do you honestly believe that a UN declaration is suddenly 100% accurate and beyond scrutiny?

This article of May 2015, this year, states the following:

Quote:International inspectors have found traces of sarin and VX nerve agent at a military research site in Syria that had not been declared to the global chemical weapons watchdog, diplomatic sources said on Friday.

Samples taken by experts from the Organisation for the Prohibition and Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in December and January tested positive for chemical precursors needed to make the toxic agents, the sources told Reuters on the condition of anonymity because the information is confidential.

"This is a pretty strong indication they have been lying about what they did with sarin," one diplomatic source said. "They have so far been unable to give a satisfactory explanation about this finding."
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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I think given the quantities of sarin and vx in Syria, even if only 1/10 of it remains after the UN destruction, we are very lucky that no chemical attack happened so far.
IMO these gas are still in the possession of Assad's regular forces and this includes Saddam's chemicals. I don't think any chemical agent are still in Iraq. I believe in the theory that Saddam transfered them to Syria.
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Some terrorists don't wait to be pregnant or to have new born babies to meet Allah through suicide bombing.

[Image: Belly_Prosthetique_3534600b.jpg]
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In my series You know that we lost the War on Terror when...

Jean d'Ormesson, French Academy member Wrote:"It would be normal that Islam was represented at the French Academy"



translated link

The Académie Française is not only about ruling on the french language, it's a very distinguished elite of intellectuals, mostly writers and philosophers. It's the most prestigious place to be that you can dream of in France.

[Image: AFP_131211_bi50t_aetd-academie-francaise_sn635.jpg]
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GeoPolitical Monitor says that instead of France blaming their neighbor for its terrorist problems, they should look at themselves.

Blame Belgium! How France Ignores Its Homegrown Terror Problem

Quote:Three months after the November 13 terror attacks in Paris that took 130 lives, the world’s media appears to be more convinced than ever that the root of the "disgusting" that struck the French capital on that day is to be located some 300 kilometers to the north in the Belgian capital of Brussels. The idea that the Paris attacks were a “Belgian” operation has indeed become so ubiquitous and ingrained that Belgian authorities have felt compelled to mount a campaign to defend the country’s reputation and the mother of one of the victims who died at Paris’s Bataclan theater has even threatened to file suit against Belgium.

But the problem with this assumption of the “Belgian” character of the attacks is that it does not hold up to scrutiny. All of the known assailants, including those who had been living in Belgium, were French citizens. These include five of the seven assailants who were killed during the attacks – Bilal Hadfi, Brahim Abdeslam, Foued Mohamed-Aggad, Ismaël Omar Mostefaï, and Samy Amimour – plus the fugitive Salah Abdeslam. Two other assailants who blew themselves up near the Stade de France soccer stadium are reported to have been carrying Iraqi passports, but have not been identified. The direct participation of the Belgian citizens Chakib Akrouh and Abdelhamid Abaaoud – widely described as the “mastermind” behind the attacks – is, for the moment, strictly a matter of speculation.
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French jihadists, like Fabien Clain and Salim Benghalem, have made no secret of their desire to strike in France, and French jihadists have been directly responsible for the great bulk of the violence. However unpleasant it may be for François Hollande and other French officials to admit it: The danger comes from within.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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That France "blamed" Belgium is a little bit of an overstatement. There were some finger pointings but it was never serious nor high level. Cooperation and mutual esteem between France and Belgium in these matters are more than excellent.
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