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The Iran Deal
IMO The US has always supported Israel unconditionally, even under Obama. Except Israel which is directly treathened and the US who supports Israel, nobody realy care about Iran.

Junior made a mistake by not invading Iran right after Iraq and Talibanistan. He had a chance. Iran was encircled. He just had to secure an agreement with Russia. That could have been the most difficult part.
Islam would not have survived the flash defeat of Iraq, Iran and al Qaida (read Saudi Arabia), all at once by the khafir west.
But an even bigger mistake was to invade Iraq without having the plan to invade Iran and destroy Islam once and for good.
He was too politicaly correct. That's why the Axis of Evil included N-K to show eeryone that the US and his President had nothing against Islam.
And if your goal is not destroying Islam why do you make a crusade in the Middle East?

Same today: Trump wants another Iran nuclear deal? Fine. But what for if the goal is not to destroy Islam?
Iran is an islamic republic. You want to sanction Iran? Start by banning the Quran in bookstores.

I'm fed up with all these politicians whining about terrorism and pretending to bombard the ISIS in Syria, negociate nuclea deal, draw red lines about chemical weapons but who don't want to tackle the problem at its root.

Islamists don't care that you block or release billions of dollars of sanction money. But if you attack their religious beliefs then you hit to spot where it realy hurts them.

It will hurt them straight in the balls because there are about 1.4 billion poeple actualy who think that if you insult the Allmighty, he will punish you.
We should have one politician with real gutts, Trump style but with a purpose, who says on TV that Allah and his prophet are bullshit and prooving that nothing happens to him or to the West.
That despite millions of riots we are still fine while they are not.

Just moving the ambassy to Jerusalem is not assertive enough.
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(04-30-2018, 09:25 PM)John L Wrote:
(04-30-2018, 04:30 PM)WmLambert Wrote: Bibi outs Iran's nuke program.

Somehow, Israel got into safes and came away with over 100,000 documents. Someone want to explain that?

I was hoping you would tell us what happened.   S22

All I know is the pull quote: "Israel's Mossad intelligence service raided a secret location in Tehran that looked like "a dilapidated warehouse" and removed original documents on the nuclear weapons program to smuggle back to Israel in a one-night operation last January,"

More info comes from Debka
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Mossad is probably the best intelligence organization on the planet. This just demonstrates that once again!
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Now that the deal has been rescinded, we are learning more about what led to its downfall, and why Trump followed through in this. Dr Fred Singer has this to say about what may lay ahead for Iran. And it leads to the Big Question: Will the Mullahs be there to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the overthrow?

He does make several important points, and bodes quite well for Israel, and the recognition of her neighbors. S5
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Have a Gneiss Day!
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No the deal is still there with the europeans. I think Trump makes a mistake with Iran but he has some points.

I think the world need a ban on nuclaer weapons, not just Iran. Isolating Iran will be counterproductive.
Of course, he can't do the same as with Kim Jun Un, but it was not necessary to go in the opposite direction and withdraw from the deal.

About Iran, the West should get a new deal, not with the mullahs, but with Putin.
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I never have understood the hostility to the Iran deal. If it was a failure, you could always go to war later if you thought it was that big of a deal and according to many observers it had opened up Iran to western inspections and was working.

I still don't get what the problem is.
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(06-12-2018, 07:35 PM)Palladin Wrote: ...I still don't get what the problem is.

Going to war is not a minor thing. What you may want to realize is that the Iranian deal was made through the U.N. - not through the U.S.legislature. Our Constitution says treaties must be ratified through the Senate, and since it wasn't,  the whole deal was a non-Treaty. Next, ask yourself where Obama came up with 150 billion dollars. All funding must be initiated with thw House. Not the Senate. Not SCOTUS. And not the President. Thirdly, think about the reason why Obama sent those two pallets of unmarked and untraceable dollars in the middle of the night, unannounced beforehand. Also, now we know that Kerry and Obama had a side deal they never revealed, to allow Iran to run money through banks that were supposed to still be sanctioned.

Think about it all long enough, and you should see that the only reason was to strengthen Iran's ability to sponsor terrorism. We know that the so-called main goal that was supposed to stop their research on nukes was never accomplished. The Israelis have embedded spies all over Iran, because before the Mullahs took control, the people were pro-West. The Mossad captured enough hidden files to prove Iran never intended to follow the barest rudiments of the Obama deal.

European cohorts to the deal have their own reasons to ignore sanctions needed to stop Iran from destroying Israel and to restart the fow of oil.
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Yeah, ever since Iran/Persia liberated the Jews from Babylon, israel and Iran have been staunch friends and allies. Israel has so many friends and contacts in Iran that the Mullahs will never be able to do anything that Israel doesn't know about. Probably even before the Mullahs do it.

Iran has always been Jew friendly when Israel didn't exist. Its a long term 'Lose-Lose' for the Mullahs, whether they like it or not.
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Have a Gneiss Day!
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WmL, no, the $150B was Iranian money on an escrow account. Lifting sanction meant exactly give back this money to Iran. And it was not done one night, with untraceable banknotes. (link?)

Everybody knows that Iran has never given up on nukes. But the deal helped put their program on hold.

Trumps wants too much and doesn't understand that it's impossible. Sanctions never work completely.

Most of what Trump wants to do is impossible.

Palladin, for going to war on Iran, it's too late. It had to be done when US troops were in Iraq and their columns still moving with a kinetic force able to break Irainian defenses.
It materialy the best chance to do it. If we didn't at this time, we will probably never do it. The US won't redeploy there.

Now given the way Iraq has been administrated after being liberated from Saddam Hussein, it's a good thing they didn't.
Had Iraq been a success, and i think it could have been a success, not invading Iran could have been considered a mistake.
Most of the problems in the ME are cause by Iran still being an islamic rep. And because Islam is still there.

I think Iraq could have been a success and Iran could have fallen after Afghanistan, had the US fought against Islam, I mean making clear from the beginning that the country won't be a muslim one anymore instead of ignoring it completely.

Saoudi arabia would have fallen too, following the fall of Islam.
We had the material means on the ground, on the seas and on the skys to eliminate Islam, and we didn't.

The US crushed the strongest army in the region in two weeks (OK the second strongest) and they didn't even use this opportunity to promote western values.

The day Iran has nukes, we won't make war. We will starve them with very harsh sanctions, isollate them and let them degrade over decades and everybody will see what it costs to have nukes when others don't want you to have them.
IMO the blocade arounf NK prevented many others to develop or aquire nukes.
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(06-14-2018, 03:16 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: WmL, no, the $150B was Iranian money on an escrow account. Lifting sanction meant exactly give back this money to Iran. And it was not done one night, with untraceable banknotes. (link?)

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_frozen_assets. S22
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The total was $166 billion. The money on the air planes were unmarked bills.
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Bottom line on this money is it was Iran's money. The idea the US gave Iran this cash is silly, we just stopped using coercive power to keep them from accessing their own money. If someone could do that to us you guys would die of strokes screaming about it.
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WmL I'm very skeptical that the US sent for $166 Billion of "unmarked bills" on air planes to Iran.
But you might be right. Iran is out of the SWIFT system which allows to make wire transfer. As they couldn't wire the money electronically to Iran, they had to ship it physically. Yet, I would be very surprised that they really did like this.

The "untraceability" of the notes is more an Obama Derangement Syndrome, IMO.
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(06-19-2018, 03:52 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: WmL I'm very skeptical that the US sent for $166 Billion of "unmarked bills" on air planes to Iran.
But you might be right. Iran is out of the SWIFT system which allows to make wire transfer. As they couldn't wire the money electronically to Iran, they had to ship it physically. Yet, I would be very surprised that they really did like this.

The "untraceability" of the notes is more an Obama Derangement Syndrome, IMO.

CNN said this.
Quote:The $150B was from sanctioned funds. The rest was on the unmarked airplanes. "The money was procured from central banks in Switzerland and the Netherlands, official said, and an unmarked cargo plane loaded with Swiss francs, euros and other currencies were flown to Iran. ...Legal claims are one of the reasons the payment to Iran was controversial when Obama first announced it. The Clinton administration had agreed in 2000 to pay that $400 million to Americans who had won lawsuits against Iran in US courts.
These families and individuals had sued the Islamic Republic for damages after the deaths of loved ones or for being the victims themselves of Iran-backed kidnappings or terrorist attacks. At the time, US officials told those families the money would come from Iran.
With Obama's announcement, it became apparent that the payments had come from US taxpayers and not from Iran at all.

Although CNN didn't mention the bills being unmarked, Fox News did. There was quite a brouhaha because unmarked bills allowed funding of Terrorists indecently easy.

Fox interview
Quote:...he [Obama] wanted to have these hostages gone even though the price of it was $400 million and small unmarked bills flying into Iran on a unmarked aircraft like it was a drug cartel transaction. Not a legitimate negotiation between two governments.

This makes it even worse.
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Here we see the GREAT effect of Trump's Iran policy.
Oh, yeah, Very effective... S6

Iran reopens uranium feedstock plant in preparation to boost enrichment

reuters Wrote:The AEOI said on Wednesday that in response to Khamenei’s order and Trump’s renunciation of the deal, a plant for the production of UF6, the feedstock for centrifuge machines that enrich uranium, had been relaunched and a barrel of yellow cake has been delivered there.
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(06-27-2018, 05:26 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Here we see the GREAT effect of Trump's Iran policy.
Oh, yeah, Very effective... S6

Iran reopens uranium feedstock plant in preparation to boost enrichment

reuters Wrote:The AEOI said on Wednesday that in response to Khamenei’s order and Trump’s renunciation of the deal, a plant for the production of UF6, the feedstock for centrifuge machines that enrich uranium, had been relaunched and a barrel of yellow cake has been delivered there.

I wonder how deep in the mountain, or ground that "uranium feedstock plant" is set? If not, it will almost certainly be destroyed by any number of things. And lets not forget the possibility of sabotage. Israel will most certainly NOT allow Iran to come up with something they can use to destroy her.
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And do not forget that Iranian sponsored and equipped troops have been leaving Syria lately. They haven't been harassing any American Navy vessels lately, either.
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Something tells me that the Mullah's time at the Iran helm is close to coming to an end. This is certainly encouraging news.

CHAOS IN TEHRAN! Iranian Protesters Chase Police Down the Street, Then Torch Their Bikes

If Revolutionary Guard police ran away, allowing their bikes to be torched, this is clearly a sign that the regime is on the verge of folding. Its now just a matter of time.

And one result of all this is Islam's loss of more than just 'face' here. My guess is that secularism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism, will be the Big Winners in the immediate future. Oh, and so will Israel too.
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JL Wrote:I wonder how deep in the mountain, or ground that "uranium feedstock plant" is set? If not, it will almost certainly be destroyed by any number of things. And lets not forget the possibility of sabotage. Israel will most certainly NOT allow Iran to come up with something they can use to destroy her.
It's believed to be very deep under mountains. Very difficult to destroy. It's assumed that only a MOAB could have an effect hence that the US air force would have to participate. So far the best we have done was to display a MOAB to scare Iran. Iran retaliated by leting know that they had russian S300 systems.

Iran is a also a very remote country. The US has no air base close and Israel is far. Had the Israelis the capability to destroy Iranian nuke sites, they would have done it already. The fact that they didn't shows that they ar eunable to.
There has been discussions with Israely air force generals about that. They all agree that bombing facilities in Iran would be too risky. But in case of war, they would.

IMO, it's also a myth that Israel has spies all over Iran. They have certainly informants, but they don't know everything. I don't think you infiltrate the Revolutionary or the Quds Brigades so easily.
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(06-29-2018, 08:27 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: ...it's also a myth that Israel has spies all over Iran. They have certainly informants, but they don't know everything. I don't think you infiltrate the Revolutionary or the Quds Brigades so easily.

Wrong! We know Israel had a scientist embedded within Iran - because when Hillary's illegal phone was tapped in her overseas travels, that spy was named, and within a week, he was dead. One more reason for her orange jump suit and ankle chains.

Israel has second and third generation spies embedded everywhere. We used to come close with our human intel - but Carter and Clinton wiped that from the equation. In 1976 under President Carter, Admiral Stansfield Turner, with no professional Intelligence experience, was appointed the Director of the CIA. He decided to cut 820 positions within the CIA Operations Directorate. The Clandestine services have never recovered from that blow. "Every Director of Central Intelligence since then has tried in vain to "rebuild" the operational capability of the CIA."

The insanity reached its apex in 1995 with the "primary purpose" guidelines drafted by the Clinton administration: henceforth, a firewall would be placed between criminal and national-security agents, generally barring them even from communicating with one another.

The CIA has been dysfunctional for a long time. Mossad has held to their purpose.
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