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News From Kurdistan
I've been meaning to do this for some time, but was simply lazy. But since what is going on there is perhaps the only really good news coming out of that region, I think it deserves its own thread.

Besides, I am Bullish on the Kurds anyway. They've been a repressed and persecuted minority for too long.

Here's a little background information, in case you have just come out of a coma for the last few years. S5

A short history of the Kurds

The ma,jor problem the Kurds have beyond Arabs and Turks, is the USA. Our role equates to helping most the locals to suppress the Kurds. They simply are neither large enough in numbers or unified enough or talentec enough to make a difference to enjoy allied status.
(07-09-2015, 05:20 PM)Palladin Wrote: Our role equates to helping most the locals to suppress the Kurds.

Perhaps you can give us some concrete examples where "Our role"(as in you, me, and everyone else) is helping others to suppress them? Or are you referring to McDaddy, and crew? There is a difference. But if you really are referring to McDaddy and company, please give some good examples, and perhaps some links for us to read. Because other than neglect, with just the necessary amount of air support to claim help, "suppress" may be a bit out there. 'Course I wouldn't put anything beyond the crew in the WH these days. S18

Quote:They simply are neither large enough in numbers or unified enough or talentec enough to make a difference to enjoy allied status.

Here is information from CIA Wikopedia.

This article compiles estimates on the geographical distribution of Kurdish demographics. A rough estimate by the CIA Factbook has populations of 14.5 million in Turkey, 6 million in Iran, about 5 to 6 million in Iraq, and less than 2 million in Syria, which adds up to close to 28 million Kurds in Kurdistan or adjacent regions.[3] Recent emigration resulted in a Kurdish diaspora of about 1.5 million people, about half of them in Germany.

When you consider the numbers that Uncle Saddam had murdered, gassed, and other niceties, its a wonder they have that number.

Lets compare some countries in Europe, and see what they have, population wise. Directly from CIA Factbook.

Estonia - 1,257,921 (July 2014 est.)

Lithunia - Statistics Lithuania (the national statistical agency of Lithuania) estimates the country's total population at the start of 2013 to be 2,971,905, which takes into account the findings of Lithuania's 2011 census and the high rate of net outmigration since the country joined the EU in 2004 (July 2014 est.)

Latvia - 2,165,165 (July 2014 est.)

Slovakia - 5,443,583 (July 2014 est.)

Czech Republic - 10,627,448 (July 2014 est.)

Hungary - 9,919,128 (July 2014 est.)

I could keep going up the ladder if you'd like.

As for the unified part, I believe the Iraqi Kurds, all 5-6 million of them, are pretty well organized. That's about the population size of Slovakia. If they manage to make some agreement with the Syrian Kurds that could add 2 million. But that may be a bit hard to do, since the PKK is a bit farther to the Left than the Iraqi Kurds. As for the Turkish and Iranian Kurds, there may be a whole lot of opportunity there for the future, don't you think? S5

As for talented, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are they talented fighters? They seem to be pretty good at that, including their women.

Are they Phd graduates? Don't know the numbers. With what are they not talented enough here? I seriously would like to know.

Sure, we ally with the most useful locals and Kurds don't make the cut. What is there to discuss? Maybe you have some knowledge that we prefer them over Turk and Arabs locally?
...Besides being better fighters and on our side?
(07-10-2015, 11:32 AM)Palladin Wrote: Sure, we ally with the most useful locals and Kurds don't make the cut. What is there to discuss? Maybe you have some knowledge that we prefer them over Turk and Arabs locally?

Thats different from actively helping to "suppress the Kurds" as you mentioned above. I was asking you to show some links that show just that thing, since you did say that.

And I seem to remember when we did "prefer them" over the Iraqi. Remember that? We had an official no fly zone established. It seems to me that only since McDaddy have we almost completely ignored them.

OK, we do not try to suppress them, but, we go out of our way to prevent them accessing proper weaponry, etc. The local Arabs and Turks are just too important relatively speaking.

I like them better, too. But, they are close to meaningless to the US foreign affairs due to them not being either large enough, talented enough or unified enough to matter to us.

That unified point is big, Kurds do not get along well, not even within Iraq and those in Iraq discriminate bad against those in Syria and those in Turkey may as well have been in the USSR, they are inveterate Marxists.
The main problem is that they have little to no unity.  If they aren't fighting each other, they tend to pay no attention to the other groups.   If I didn't know better, I would almost swear them to be "Under Cover" Jews. Shock

I'm not sure just how old this article is, probably no more than one year old.  But this person seems to understand the hurtles that the Kurds have to overcome before they can eventually form their own country.  He's also playing a part in the planning of drafting and implimenting a constitution that may eventually lead to the Syrian Kurds attaining some form of federal independence.

Quote:The Future of Kurdistan in the Middle East

[Image: kurdish-occupancy-map.jpg]

The chances for a Kurdish state in the Middle East are very, very slim. That is despite the current turmoil and the possibility that the current conflicts in Syria and Iraq (and more widely in Yemen, the Israeli/Palestine conflict, the “cold” war between Iran and Saudi Arabia) will leave their mark on the region and might result in important regional and potentially even territorial changes. However, with new violence between Turkish Kurds and the army in Turkey, increased cooperation between the Iraqi Kurds and Turkey against the PKK and Turkish airstrikes against Kurdish troops in Syria, it becomes more and more obvious that Turkey will not tolerate the emergence of a Kurdish state. It is also unlikely that the USA or any other NATO member will support such an initiative. The Kurds have been an important ally for the USA and NATO, but the strategic relationship with Turkey, itself a member of NATO, will be more important for all sides. The only wild card is Russia, which has increased its cooperation with the Kurds in Syria. Russia does not recognise the YPG or the PKK as terrorist organisations, and since the cooling down of Russian-Turkish relations, there has been a revival of Russian-Kurdish relations. However, Russia’s interests in the Middle East, and particularly in Syria, are rather limited. It is mainly about forcing itself on the scene, getting Western governments to speak and cooperate with Russia (after the sanctions as a result of Russia’s annexation of Crimea) and pushing Russia’s status as a major player in global affairs. It is therefore unlikely that Russia will push its whole weight behind the demand for a Kurdish state, especially since this might upset other Russian allies in the region – President Assad and also the Iranian leadership.

Instead, what can be expected is that the Kurds of Syria might enjoy more autonomy once the conflict in the country has ended. This will be the case no matter who wins the conflict. Their demand for independence will, however only be successful if Syria completely falls apart as a country, something that is unlikely to happen. And even then it will be difficult for Syrian and Iraqi Kurds to find common ground, especially since Turkey has made it very clear that it will militarily oppose any move towards what could be perceived as a step into the direction of an independent Kurdish state.

The situation of the Kurds will remain problematic, in Turkey where the government started a dialogue but has now reverted to direct confrontation, in Syria where they are caught up in the civil war, in Iraq where they are part of the alliance against the so-called Islamic State but at the same time have to protect their autonomy, and in Iran, where Kurds also face discrimination. The Kurds remain a stateless nation in a region, in which the Western idea of the nation state has resulted in many conflicts in the recent past. Kurdish demands for self-determination will not go away. New forms of territorial autonomy and trans-border cooperation will need to be thought off in order to ensure the participation and self-determination of the Kurdish people into the countries where they live. That this can be done successfully has been proven in Iraq. There are, however, doubts about the willingness of the majority population in Turkey, Iran and Syria to grant extensive autonomy and trans-border cooperation rights to the Kurdish population.

At least, we can still hope and pray.  Eventually its going to happen, one way or the other.

Here's one more article from earlier this month: Kurdish National Council announces plan for setting up ‘Syrian Kurdistan Region’

Here's another reason why I like the Kurds best over there. They have a sense of pride in themselves and their communities. Even the civilians are more than willing to get out and help clear out the thousands of unexploded mines littering the countryside.

Quote:After ISIS: Clearing mines amid the rubble of war

BASHIR, Iraq —A group of Kurdish men arrive at sunrise, at an undisclosed location in Kirkuk Province, just steps behind the front lines of battle. They work quickly in the sweltering heat.

Explosives are carefully piled in trenches and tied together so they will all blow up at once.

Then, after a successful detonation, the men bow their heads for a moment of silence, to remember a colleague who died the day before, more than 180 miles away.

But these men aren’t soldiers. They are a demining team made up mostly of Kurdish civilians.

The man they remembered was a British national who had been in Ramadi, a city west of Baghdad, who had been attempting to deactivate an unexploded device when it blew up and killed him.

Demining teams in Iraq work to clear bombs, mines, improvised explosive devices (IEDs), and unexploded ordinance (UXOs) left in territory recaptured from the Islamic State.

Their work is personal. Some have lost friends or loved ones to ISIS; others want to do their part to make sure their country is safe again; some just need the work.

There are at least three million internally displaced people in Iraq, according the United Nations Office for Coordination of Human Affairs (UNOCHA). But before people can go home, it is up to mine-clearing specialists to inspect and clear towns and villages of explosives.

It may not be realistic to support the Kurds as a state. But you can support them as a tribe.
Turkey is determinded to crush the Kurds militarily in Syria and Iraq.
So, if you want a leverage against Turkey, give weapons to the Kurds.

For example, The EU offered 3 billions to Erdogan to stop the flow of refugees. Instead of 3 billions in cash, the EU should rather offer the promise of not sending for 3 billions worth of weapons to the Kurds.

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