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Mass Drowning of Migrants in the Mediterranean
Our procedure is catch and release. People are scheduled months later for hearings to discuss their status ... almost none of them show up. They simply melt away into the crowd. So yeah ... pretty much the same except for the grand show of pretense that it's all legal and proper ... when everyone knows it's politically driven BS.

Out of curiosity do you have the equivalent of sanctuary cities? Municipalities that have decided they don't have to abide by national or EU laws? ... or even cooperate? And is that very 'popular' with the national and EU authorities? I suppose this would be redundant in the face of sanctuary nations ... but what the heck? ... I had to ask.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
(02-28-2016, 06:04 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Yak, I see it's no different in the US.
Here the main, unterminable problem is that every refugee who land on a EU country has the right to file a demand for asylum and wait for an answer. The administration then must study every demand case by case and it takes months before they give an answer.
During all this time the refugee has the right to be fed and hosted at a center for refugee or somewhere else.
Even with two million migrants they want to stick with this procedure!

A good thing he went to see it in reality. These poeple need to face reality sometimes...
Pro-Migrant Movie Star Attacked by Migrants in France

What a way to go Fred. Death by Bureaucracy. We're doing the same thing over here.

JL Wrote:Death by Bureaucracy
That's it.
European Union Declares Balkan Route Closed Wrote:Ahead of the summit on Monday morning Tusk will hold bilateral meetings with some of the leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Turkish Prime Minister Davutoğlu, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, and Mark Rutte, prime minister of the Netherlands, which holds the rotating presidency.

Tusk will also meet with Nicos Anastasiades, leader of the Greek Cypriot government, that on Monday will graduate from the bailout program three years after receiving the financial lifeline.

link #2 Briebart

One year too late but at least they seems to move their ass, finaly.
I think they also waited to build the fences before announcing that.

Now all migrants will be stranded in Greece and will stay there. Turkey promised to take them back against payment, of course.
But IMO, Greece will also do more to stop migrants from reaching their islands. So far they merely bused the migrant up north. Now they will have to deal with the matter more seriousely.
The EU is also going to give Greece some help to cope with the crisis.

The first good news in a while...
(03-10-2016, 05:19 PM)Fredledingue Wrote:

Guy is absolutely right there: "The refugee crisis won’t be solved by the EU signing a pact with an increasingly authoritarian regime". Erdogan is the main stumbling block, and the Turkish people need to give him a swift kick in the backside.

Risks his life to reach Sweden,... then commit suicide.
reuters Wrote:Ansari had a spacious room to himself near the kitchen with a double wardrobe, refrigerator, table with four chairs, and adjoining bathroom. .... The boys were given money to buy food. ...
Almost every European country is simply swamped with migrants. Frankly, I'm surprised things aren't worse.

me too
What are the odds the UN is behind the migration problem?

UN Migration Agency video: “migration is inevitable, necessary and desirable”, cites flawed report to refute critics
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
The Defend Europe initiative takes the sea: Wrote:An anti-immigrant, far-right group in Europe wants to disrupt rescue missions and try to prevent migrants from reaching the continent. Defend Europe, whose members classify themselves as "identitarians" who want to protect Europe’s "identity" from immigration, raised money to purchase a ship via a crowd funding campaign and secured €65,000 to attempt to enact its “no way policy” on immigration.

The Identitarian Movement Wrote:We want to start an identitarian search-and-rescue (SAR) mission in July on the Libyan coast. Our goal is to document the doings of the NGOs, expose their collaboration with the human smugglers, and intervene if they do something illegal.

We will reach out to the Libyan Coast Guard and offer them our help as a recon ship. Our goal is to step in where our politicians are failing and to do what is necessary to stop the deadly illegal migration into Europe

And now, this very funny story:

Crew of anti-smuggling boat deported from Cyprus over people-smuggling

Reading this article, it's obvious that the NGOs and some politics are doing everything to prevent their action.
Why would an anti-migrants group smuggle migrants?

Meanwhile there are mounting evidences and rumors that NGOs do help the smugglers and are used as sea taxi. Wrote:Defend Europe's move comes just two days after Italy introduced a controversial code of conduct for NGOs working in the Mediterranean.

Among the new rules is a ban on making phone calls or firing flares, which the Italian government claims could signal to human traffickers when it is safe to send a boat to sea.

Arguing that the new code of conduct will severely restrict the ability of humanitarian and aid groups to carry out their work,

There wouldn't be such a ban if the governements dind't know that NGOs are helping illegal transfer of migrants onto European shores.

They never, absolutely never brought them back on African's shore even when the distance from Africa was very short.

[Image: DFrjcgbXoAAQTe_.jpg]

Pro migrants poeple are calling the Defend Europe initiative, and the The Identitarian Movement (originaly born in France as Mouvement Identitaire) as right-wing, racist, xenophobic and anti-islam.

That's what they are. But they are doing the job that our politicians are not doing: Defend our land from an invasion.
I would prefer ou governements to do it in a legal and coordinated manner. Sadly, it has to be right wing groups who had to do it. Some memebers of these groups may be racists, neo-nazy or someting, but not all and such action will certainly have the moral support of the european population if they conduct it properly.
Everything is "Far Right" this and "Far Right" that, if it doesn't adhere to the Progressive(US), or Social Democratic(EuroLand), ideals as to what is socially progressive and politically correct.

My question is this Fred, aren't there already laws on the books of most countries that make it unlawful for foreigners to just waltz across their borders? In other words, if they aren't members of the EU, don't they have to get permission first? And if so, what's so "Far Right" about trying to uphold the law?

Just curious. Spiteful

John, There is no permission to ask for anyone, to cross intra EU (technicaly Shengen Zone) borders because there is no control.
Non EU-citizens have the right and the possibility to move across all Shengen Zone EU states without having to show any document.
In practice there isn't even any physical border at all. There is barely a blue road sign with the name of the country you are entering. You are glad to see it if some tree branch didn't grow in front of it.

Even better: EU states don't even have the right to do systematic control at their borders.

However illegals can be controled and arrested anywhere if they don't have proper documents with them, and then eventualy deported.
It doesn't matter if this control is near or far from the border.
It's still unlawfull to be unlawfully in an EU country.

The UK is not currently in the Shengen Zone. And, ho my god, they are checking traveler's document liek paranoids. They don't make any difference between EU and non EU, thought we are asked to take different lines at the airport.
Not only they are checking if we do have a valid ID, but they are entering all the datas into their computers, when you go in and when you go out.
They even do this for the train linking London to Brussels or Paris. Having to show a passport to board a train was something for me incredible when I went there this summer. Before the train platform, there is the UK side check where they take 10 min to enter the data of each document, and a few meters later there is the french check where they barely look at it.

I think the British are not used to have neighbours. They don't know, they don't have the concept of moving from one country to another. They always had to cross the sea by boat or by plane.

The funny thing is that, in London, you have muslim populations like nowhere elese in Europe. In some areas you can walk a mile in a crowded street without seeing a single european.
So when they talk about Brexit to stop immigration, I'm laughing LMAO.

By contrast I have taken several international flights without having to show any ID at any moment. At first I thought it was a mistake, but later I noticed it was normal as they didn't check anyone else.
When they do check it, it's only flight attendants who verify if you are the same person as written on the ticket.
European countries always had borders. Travelers moved more than a few miles in any direction and couldn't speak the language.
We still do have borders. We don't have controls at borders.
(08-09-2017, 03:41 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: We still do have borders. We don't have controls at borders.

That's what happens when countries give up their sovereignty.

You should watch the video on this website.
Of course, as I wrote on facebook, 90% of migrants don't come from Syria or any country at war and 90% are not woman or children.

But the point is that for migrants, crossing is not easy.
At the end the young couple mysteriousely borrowed 7000€ for forged passports and seats on a plane.
(IMO they got this money for their movie)

We can also see, altought they don't say it, NGO workers or benevolents helping the crowd crossing a river to Macedonia... Well, I though NGO were there to help poeple in danger...

Interresting to watch.

JL Wrote:That's what happens when countries give up their sovereignty.
Border controls has nothing to do with sovereignty.
It's just a treaty among friendly countries to avoid jamming the roads at every border. Just common sens.

Having to stop my car, open the trunck, show passports... this is what I call losing sovereignty because it makes you feel that you are potentialy illegal.
Losing sovereignty is a government encroaching on the individuals rights by citing that their power is a higher order. It is also by handing a citizen's rights on to an illegal who does not have those rights, thus watering down the rights of those who are legal.
Mr Yak Wrote:Out of curiosity do you have the equivalent of sanctuary cities? Municipalities that have decided they don't have to abide by national or EU laws? ... or even cooperate? And is that very 'popular' with the national and EU authorities? I suppose this would be redundant in the face of sanctuary nations ... but what the heck? ... I had to ask.

No. None that I have heard of or that I have experienced. I don't know any local place or area where it's known that you can do what's not allowed elsewhere.
General laws are applied everywhere the same way, in each european country.
Each EU country has its own way to enforce EU rules or even their own rules, but generaly speaking, there is no place in Europe where you can do crazy things which are supposed to be completely illegal.

In some cases, some leftist governed municipalities decide to ban products from Israel (in support to the Palestinian cause) or somewhere else (in protest against Trump, the TTIP etc) or to swear not to follow some rules or allow things for idological reasons but this is mostly symbolical as they can't forbid businesses, stores and poeple to do what's legal or force poeple to do what's illegal. They don't have such autority and they never try to.
It affects only what the muminicipalities buy or do for themselves. And most of the time these local decisions are forgotten once the media don't talk about them anymore. No big deal, realy.

In France, one mayor decided to build cabins for migrants. He had the right to do it but the central governement opposed and prevented the project because they feared migrants would settle permanently, and also because migrants were supposed to ask refuge in migrant centers.
These migrants were living in camping tents. It would have been much more difficult to expell them, and physicaly and legaly once they lived in a hard build.

But such cases are exceptional. There is no local sanctuary for migrants.

To be accurate, there is no such things as EU Laws. Every law, in every EU member state, are national laws. There is no legal difference between a law decided according to EU negociations or upon national decision. The term EU Law is still widespread, as it refers to... well, EU Law, but it has no legal basis. It's only a way to differenciate things.

Citizens and companies are not liable to the EU in case of law breach. Only member states are.
But in this case, again, one often says that such state didn't respect EU Laws, while in officialy correct terms, it didn't respect EU treaties in regard to their obligation to apply some specific laws.

The EU court of Justice is only, or at least mostly (not sure), for private persons or entities to sue a EU member state or EU member states sueing each others.

Back to topic:

NOGs discontinued sea-taxi services for human traffickers. Wrote:Present within Libya are between 700,000 and 1 million migrants, according to the International Organization for Migration (IOM), a UN-affiliated agency. They mainly come from Egypt, Niger, Sudan, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Syria, and Mali,

Italy to bar boats carrying migrants. EU agrees. Wrote:Rome's decision to close Italian ports to refugee ships was met with the approval of the EU interior ministers

France and Spain have already refused to open their own ports to refugee boats. There were just as few nations that were willing to receive more refugees. Even distribution that has already been agreed on is moving at a slow pace. Only 7,000 of the roughly 35,000 refugees that arrived in Italy were taken in by other EU countries.
Austria's threat to deploy tanks and soldiers
For the sake of better monitoring, rescue ships will be obligated to have their tracking devices turned on, to take rescued refugees directly to a port, and allow police access to their ships at any time.

The list of requirements seems to insinuate - and not only from the Italian side - that the NGOs are practically encouraging refugees to embark on a journey to Europe and that the helpers' behavior seems to more or less assist smugglers.

Sea rescuers under suspicion

Germany's Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere also blames the rescuers for the rising numbers, saying: "Trust is not built when a tracking device is deliberately turned off to hide the location." Practices like this will be banned in the new code of conduct.

Sure all these poeple are from bombarded Alepo...
[Image: 40072497_401.jpg]
I can't blame any of them, but, this entire thing was driven by propaganda. Within a short time frame, people from Africa, Arabia and as far east as Afghanistan began flooding into Europe.

That was not a response to war in Syria only and since Iraqis have stayed there, it makes you think even with Syria it's partially contrived.

I think Merkel made an error early on encouraging it and the contrivance was given steroids.

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