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Putin's Russian Style Reconquista
#41
Did you notice that the Moscow Times described the killing as a 'drive-by' killing as well? Clearly it was not, because the only vehicle to pass them at the time of the killing was the snow removal truck, or something akin to that. Also, did you notice from the memorial pictures, that the bridge was fairly high above ground level. Little chance of an assassin hiding under a light without falling into the river.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#42
(03-01-2015, 06:58 PM)John L Wrote: Did you notice that the Moscow Times described the killing as a 'drive-by' killing as well?

I noticed a large and buffoonish effort to avoid the state being perceived as common thug killers. Really?, why waste the time and effort? Same with Ukraine. Russian parents aren't fooled when their kids return in body bags after dying 'accidentally' from "drills in the southern Rostov region". Everybody knows what's going on. What is to be gained in perpetuating a stupid ruse? If you are going to conduct a war, conduct a war and do it openly and proudly.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#43
Mr Y Wrote:Again ... why hide behind a 'hampered' investigation? ... or blame the opposition? ... or blame jihadists? ... or blame whatever? If the intent is to frighten, blame seems inefficient... so why not just straight up say they killed the SOB because he was "up to no good" and vilify him (maybe show doctored pictures molesting children, etc..) and then get on with their least kept 'secret' war on Ukraine?
I agree. How he was assassinated is not very important. We know who ordered the killing anyway. It doesn't make any doubt.

Nemtsov met Ukrainian president Poroshenko two days before and promised to bring him proofs that Putin sent Russian troops to Ukraine.
Putin could have him arrested bbut it seems that there was a sens of urgency. Maybe Putin panicked. Putin makes mistake after mistake now...

IMO, they didn't kill his misstress so that she can be interrogated. She must know a few things.

I used the word "drive by shooting" to illustrate the mafiosi nature of the regime. If someone is murdered in Moscow, police often doesn't even investigate.
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#44
Regardless whether or not he directly had the man murdered, he is still going to have blood on his hands in the eyes of the rest of the world. I suspect that with his natural appearance he will be looked on not just as a weasel, but a vicious one as well.

He'll probably sit tight and wait to see what kind of fallout ensues. If things do tend to go down hill, popularity wise, and world condemnation, he may be forced to bring out the 'Henry II' scenario. That way the guilty could suddenly be discovered, with mitigating circumstances beyond his control. Naturally, the guilty would have to be shot resisting arrest, or die while attempting to escape, so as to make the explanation iron tight.

I'd love to see this occur, because Russia could use a Real martyr for their fight over tyranny. And just think, the Duckbutt could do penance for the unintentional homicide, by wearing sack-cloth, walking barefoot through the streets of Moscow, as eighty Orthodox monks flog him with branches, and then spending a night in the dead martyr's crypt. There would be famous plays about this for centuries. Putin would really become a historical giant for all time. S22
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#45
More than just a few people attended the march for Boris Nemtsov.

[Image: 606x340_301152.jpg?1425219409]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#46
The Russian Orthodox church is making the same historic, spiritual error the American churches( and German in 1933 and Serbian in 1990 and on and on) have that support their state to the exclusion of others.

That is not what our role is on earth. Christians are supposed to be a spiritual nation that have an affinity for each other before secular accidental birth border fellowship.

That's a reason why I hate the US role in the mid east, it causes angst to our Arab brothers. I could care less that the USA would not quite be able to advance her self interests.
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#47
Some poeple. For a city of over 15 million, it's a very small amount.

We are still very far from a pro-West uprising in Russia...

But numbers may grow in the near future.
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#48
That's a pipedream Fred. Russians are not going to be pro west , that's so thoughtless. The west has tried to dismantle Russia, how could a Russian be pro west and not be a traitor?

Those protestors in the photo are not pro west, they are anti Putin. It is not the same at all. I doubt 1 of them has 1 nice thing to say about the USA/EU or NATO.

Edward Snowden had to flee the USA to tell the truth about our Orwellian "every message and call is monitored state security apparatus", back during the cold war, the Russian freedom lover had to flee Russia for us. Doesn't happen that way now. Things are now different, the west is nothing fancy like you think.

Unless you people have better states than the American state. In that case, please remove us from your ally list.
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#49
Palladin, most Russians would like to live in a better environement. And they know that the EU is a better environements. They would like Russia to be more like Europe.

This is not namely Pro-West. The question is not there. The question is not to deliver Russia to submit to some Western power. The question is to make Russia more like the West and for that you have to challenge the whole establishment.

The whole point of the Maiden protest was to make Ukraine a better place. Not to join Nato.
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#50
Ukraine EX the east side might be pro west, Russians aren't and they can't be. I'm not pro west myself, the "west" is a consciousless power right now wreaking havoc on earth.

Some others are as well, but, we seem to be sowing destruction where it least concerns us, at least the Russians are screwing around on their fricking borders.

Asia Minor is 100% not our land, not our's to govern, not our's at all, yet we've managed to re-create a 1000 year old religious war again with our interventions, it is mindless, anti moral "disgusting" we're about over there. All the while Americans think we're exceptional!

Can you not see the danger here? We're so much like Germans under Hitler it's frightening, Germans thought they were superior to other's, too.
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#51
Please define pro-West.

If being pro-West is to hope to live as well as in the West and to achieve that improve ties with the EU, get a trade agreement and get rid of the old corrupt regime and get a normal, functioning administration, police, health care and tribunals then I can tell you that 99% of Russians are pro-West.

If you define pro-West as rogue governement making wars on lands far away, supporting Islamic and Nazi groups were they can find them (or form them if absent), shooting peaceful demonstrators from rooftops, down passager planes and murder your own political leader to create an event, then I agree that some russians may not be pro-West. But this is not my definition.
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#52
Pro what the USA and EU are about. Russians hate us, they do not want to emulate us.

They see us as "disgusting" satanic types. Unlike Americans, they will do w/o quite as much money to avoid being what they see us as. You Europeans they see like an Arab sees Israel or NK sees SK, sucking our tits and doing what we tell you to do in return for protection.

I'm just being blunt, not disrespectful. Not saying it's valid, this is how they see it though.

You think Russians want a cultural society like we have and most do not. They did in 1991, they do not now. From their view, our cultural "openness" you think is great is more along the lines of license to become like sodom and gomorrah and they think we're exporting our culture and Russians are not the only people like this either.

I don't say they're right, this is what I think the average Russki thinks.
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#53
Not sure what to think about this but 2 Nemtsov suspects detained in Russia, prompting skepticism. I guess the time is right, and there has been enough postulating of innocence.



___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#54
(03-07-2015, 11:44 AM)Palladin Wrote: Pro what the USA and EU are about. Russians hate us, they do not want to emulate us.

They see us as "disgusting" satanic types. Unlike Americans, they will do w/o quite as much money to avoid being what they see us as.

Russians probably just want to be Russian ... and to hell with emulating anyone else. Unfortunately, right now that's a fairly bleak prospect. Purchasing power is about a third that of the U.S. ... maybe half that of France ... and falling rapidly. (w/o quite as much money indeed!) Male life expectancy is only about 64. Inflation is close to 20%. Their young men are conscripted and sent to the "Rostov Region" where thousands and thousands are dying from "training accidents". As awful as it would be to have a child die in foreign war, can you imagine how awful it would be to have one die in a secret 'entanglement'? ... with no recognition of their service or sacrifice? ... without a body to bury? They are increasingly paying a price for a purchase that Putin denies making. It's a bit odd to contrast our stagnant, rudderless SS Obama to somebody else's ship, but on the face of it, at least from that perspective, things don't look nearly as bad ... and believe me, that really sounds and feels a quite awkward thing to say. That's because it's our nature to think of how much better things might be ... rather than to imagine how much worse off we could be.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#55
Here is the latest Duckbutt success: Russia’s anti-American fever goes beyond the Soviet era’s. And obviously he is playing things like a Stradivarius in order to cause this:

Quote:The indignation peaked after the assassination of Kremlin critic Boris Nemtsov, as conspiracy theories started to swirl — just a few hours after he was killed — that his death was a CIA plot to discredit Russia. (On Sunday, Russia charged two men from Chechnya, and detained three others, in connection with Nemtsov’s killing.)

When I mentioned to Uncle Misha about all the Russian kook sites, I was obviously underestimating things. But this set of graphs concerning the US and Europe, is really informative.

   

This is one of the reasons why I opposed sanctions from the beginning. Its counterproductive, at least in the short run, and as with the case of Cuba, a very long-long run. By having this to point to, Duckbutt can easily use the old Scapegoat routine that is so good with Collectivist leaders, from Soviet Union down to Argentina.

But clearly, most of this is about McDaddy, and his less than brilliant foreign policy. But we can't leave out Junior either.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#56
(03-09-2015, 01:02 AM)John L Wrote: But we can't leave out Junior either.

You can if you're the New York Times. S6
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#57
Palladin Wrote:Pro what the USA and EU are about. Russians hate us, they do not want to emulate us.

They see us as "disgusting" satanic types. ....

You think Russians want a cultural society like we have and most do not. They did in 1991, they do not now. From their view, our cultural "openness" you think is great is more along the lines of license to become like sodom and gomorrah and they think we're exporting our culture and Russians are not the only people like this either.

I don't say they're right, this is what I think the average Russki thinks.
No Russians don't think like this. Palladin, you have to know Russia and talk with russians directly to understand that because you won't read it on the internet less so on printed papers.

Russians hate their own country. They either love Putin and hate the rest because it's corrupt or they hate Putin and the rest alltoghether because both are corrupt. Russians are so hopeless about they own country that they don't even bother about an opposition which they believe forcibly as corrupt as the curent regime since it's impossible that a political organisation can be clean.

In the West we are sick of the corruption of our own leaders. In Russia they are not sick: Their are immune. They adapted.

But they don't believe that the West is moraly lower than Russia. This is Putin propaganda. It's baseless.
Russians may aprove a thing or two from Putin, but it doesn't mean that they see Russia as great. Their governement being Mafia Central offsets largely any pride they could feel about being more manly, more pro christian values, less pro-gay etc.

I don't believe the polls from Russia even when they are honest because it's 100% that Russians would not answer what they realy think and will answer what Putin wants them to answer because they fear the regime.
I don't think poeple would risk anything if the FSB knows about the indenties of those who answered unfavorably, but poeple themselves fear the regime much more than they should. They or their parents have lived in the USSR and this was sort of engraved in their genes.

Don't worry, Russians envy us.

Putin's violent reaction in Ukraine was less about the official trade agreement with the EU than the fear of a successful popular uprising.

Mr Y Wrote:Russians probably just want to be Russian ... and to hell with emulating anyone else.
That sums it up better than I did.
It's not about being like americans or like europeans, it's just about living better than they do today.

JL Wrote:2 Nemtsov suspects detained in Russia
Sure and they managed to link it Charlie Hebdo. LOL S2

This is double whammi for his propagand:

1/ It's not him who did it but the traditional Islamic terrorists. (Which doesn't contradict the normal theory that the CIA/Mossad is behind it)

2/ Oponents to Putin are amoral poeple who support desecrating religion. Chechens and other russian muslims will applaud Putin for the assassination of B. Nemtsov.
Even if they know that Putin did it for other, obvious reasons, they will enjoy this vengeance from Allah-Most-Gracious.
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#58
Fred, I am in agreement with you on this. For centuries Russians have had to put up with government corruption, violence, inefficiency, a lack of human rights, and a host of other things, that they look at life from an almost totally fatalistic outlook. That's why Russia has the largest percentage of alcoholics in the world. The alcohol helps add one more coat to the numbness of life in the Motherland.

Russian jokes have historically taken advantage of this, and Soviet era jokes are a classic example. I haven't checked on recent Russian jokes, but I'll bet they are out there. I have to dig into that a little. S5
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#59
About Russian jokes, here is a little insight as to why they are so different from Western ones, and how they relate to the human condition there. I saw this comment here, discussing Russia's economic collapse.

Quote:As will be obvious to anyone familiar with Soviet or Russian humor, most if not all of these are recycled from earlier times. But that is not the point: the point is that Russians are beginning to tell such stories sufficiently often that it is attracting the attention of the Moscow media.

And as any number of observers in any number of countries have pointed out, a political leader or even a political system can tolerate many things, but it faces its most serious challenge not when people criticize it, an indication that they take it seriously, but when they begin to laugh at it, an indication that they no longer do.

That last part is a great description as to what makes Russian jokes different, and forever enduring over there. You simply will not find it in Western countries.

And one other thing: when the Rabinovich jokes start making a comeback you will know that things are making a turn for the worse.

-A Russian saved his rubles all his life but then threw himself out the window, only to discover that he still fell more slowly than the value of the ruble.

-“What do Russian President Vladimir Putin, the price of oil, and the ruble's value against the dollar have in common?" “They’ll all hit 63 next year.”

-- Tell me, what is the number one product of mass consumption in Russia?
– Putin’s lies.
– Why not vodka?
– Because fewer people consume vodka.

-Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin decided to do anything to keep up with the leaders of Western countries. So, when all of them imposed economic sanctions against Russia, Putin also imposed sanctions, which also were… AGAINST Russia, by banning the import of consumer products for its people.

-- Vladimir Vladimirovich, will there be an “Iron Curtain” again?
– No! The regular barbed wire will do.

-At a seance Putin summoned the spirit of the Russian tsar Peter the Great.
The tsar tells him outright: “You are a power-hungry mediocrity! The economy is stagnating! The culture is degrading! You have not one normal ally in Europe!” And punches Putin in the face.
Putin interrupts the abuse: “Well, really, Peter Alekseyevich, don’t I have some merits?! For example, I do not drink alcohol and do not smoke, I lead a healthy lifestyle…”
“And that’s also bad!” – Peter yells.
Putin is confused: “Why is it? I take care of my health, isn’t that good?
“It’s good for you, but bad for Russia. For which devil, did you–a dickhead [“huylo”]–shut ‘the window’ into Europe I built?”

-Putin tests Russia’s first electric vehicle with GLONASS [a Russian alternative to GPS]: “The car with President Putin at the wheel traveled 100 meters in just 3 seconds!”
– And then what???
– Then the power cord got pulled out from the wall socket…

-The Russian Federal Service for Drug Control opposes the legalization of narcotic substances in Russia.
They reason that for Russian citizens, Putin and the state-controlled TV are already more than enough.

-Discussion between two prison inmates:
– What are you in for?
– I created a comic strip, where I wrote that our president is a moron.
– So, what article of the criminal code did they use to convict you: for slander or for extremism?
– Neither of those. It was for the disclosure of state secrets!

-What is Putin? Putin is a medical case when one sick man lectures the whole world.

-Why do we need psychiatric and narcotics tests to obtain a driver’s license, while to manage the country, they are not necessary?!

-- Did you hear that Russia holds the 1st place in the world for psychiatric illnesses?
– Why do you find it so surprising? 70% of citizens idolize the mad fuhrer, schizophrenic Putin…

-Putin, while flying home from Brisbane, was wiping his tears.
His press-secretary approached him: “Do not be upset. They are just jerks. They were rude, but so what.”
Putin: “I can’t get the koala out of my thoughts. Such hugs!”


___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#60
There have been many accounts over the past fifty or sixty years of observations of fellow travellers on cruise ships as Russian tourists approach America in high spirits, and then a few weeks later the same Russians are observed on their return trips downcast and glum, like the condemned heading back to prison. It is no exaggeration that any Russian performing arts groups--from ballet to symphony orchestra members to athletic teams--were always accompanied by security officers on the lookout for possible defections. The mystery is why do Russians do this to themselves--create and maintain and tolerate a society that is so nightmarish to live in? They've been doing it since the time of the Tzars. Communism made it all worse. But the fall of communism does not seem to have helped much. Now organized crime pretty much runs the country--the ultimate fascism. The thing that I find hardest to understand--that seems to fly in the face of all this--is that the "pro-Russians" in eastern Ukraine are still trying to merge with Russia, instead of fleeing to western Ukraine. Maybe Ukraine is even worse!
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