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Putin's Russian Style Reconquista
#21
Fred,

Ukraine has traditionally been part of Russia, so the USA/state comparison is valid. Plus, Hitler invaded through there, Russians know the Ukrainians helped him avidly.

Do I wish everyone would get along? Yes.

John,

I don't understand why you asked #1 and I haven't heard or read where ISIS has thanked us for preparing the ground for them, but, we did. History indicates Hussein kept a lid on his nuts, the USA removes lids anymore.

We also did it in Syria and Libya.

You should be proud of our superior nation. Imagine if your family could have been on the receiving end of some USA exceptionalism like these folks???
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#22
Palladin Wrote:Ukraine has traditionally been part of Russia, so the USA/state comparison is valid.
Yes, being traditionaly part of another country more than 100 years ago supercedes all the basis of sovereignty of independant states. Right?

All international rules, international laws agreed upon among UN afiliated states, international treaties and internationaly recognized borders have no value as soon as a country can make a vague, informal claim of "traditional ownership" on another. Right?

OK, then I'll say that Russia has been traditionaly split among different tribal territories (more often than united), so Russia's only legal statu is being divided among several independant states. S6
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#23
No, Ukraine was part of Russia for a long time, then the USSR exists, then in 1990 Ukraine gets independent.
That doesn't mean it has to be again or that what Putin is about is good.

Just means this is not like Russia invading Burma or Argentina or like the USA invading Serbia, Iraq, Libya or Syria.
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#24
Putin doesn't screw around.
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#25
Here's something that should have our Putin fanatics scrambling:
Prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov shot dead
. One thing for certain: Duckbutt would have an air-tight alibi, regardless who shot the opponent.

Regardless, it just takes out one more enemy, and makes it easier to do what Duckbutt wishes. Anyway, you gotta love this:

Quote:Boris Nemtsov, a charismatic Russian opposition leader and sharp critic of President Vladimir Putin, was gunned down Saturday near the Kremlin, just a day before a planned protest against the government.

The death of Nemtsov, a 55-year-old former deputy prime minister, ignited a fury among opposition figures who assailed the Kremlin for creating an atmosphere of intolerance of any dissent and called the killing an assassination. Putin quickly offered his condolences and called the murder a provocation.

Nemtsov was working on a report presenting evidence that he believed proved Russia's direct involvement in the separatist rebellion that erupted in eastern Ukraine last year. Ukraine and the West accuse Russia of backing the rebels with troops and sophisticated weapons. Moscow denies the accusations.

Putin ordered Russia's top law enforcement chiefs to personally oversee the probe of Nemtsov's killing.

I have two questions. One, the murder was a provocation to whom? And two, does this mean that all law enforcement is responsible to Maximum Leader? And what could this mean?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#26
Putin has to be stopped failing which he will start a major war.
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#27
This article, put out yesterday, before Mr. Nemtsov's murder, is interesting even though it does not include the possibilities of the assassination.

Russia: Left out in the cold

I suspect with the economy continuing to get worse, and even more to come, Uncle VV's popularity will almost certainly take a long fall, no matter how skillful the authorities crank up the propagation machine. They are already doing that anyway, so perhaps the citizenry will grow tired of it quicker, who knows.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#28
(02-27-2015, 10:21 PM)John L Wrote: Here's something that should have our Putin fanatics scrambling:
Prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov shot dead
.

Some "prominent" politicians are useless being alive.
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#29
(02-28-2015, 03:43 AM)bh Wrote:
(02-27-2015, 10:21 PM)John L Wrote: Here's something that should have our Putin fanatics scrambling:
Prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov shot dead
.

Some "prominent" politicians are useless being alive.

In what way does this apply?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#30
(02-28-2015, 01:39 PM)John L Wrote: In what way does this apply?

It can't be applied, but some idiots hope to repeat maidan tomorrow.

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#31
Nemstov murdered two days before a rally against the War in Ukraine...
This should be considered as a breach in the ceasefire! S23

Now that the rally will be muted into a procession for mourning Nemstov, Putin is quiet.
Anti-war agitation is what he fears the most because an inter-slav war is an abomination for Russians. Killing jews, muslims, nazi and by some stretch of mind, US agents is OK. Killing other slavs, especialy very close ones like Ukes, is unacceptable.
For Putin the public shouldn't think that the war is against another slavic nation (and the founder of slavism on top of that!).

Fortunately for him, most of the opposition leaders are jewish, which makes much more convenient to execute or jail. Jews are by definitions, traitors to Russians.
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#32
(02-28-2015, 11:14 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Nemstov murdered two days before a rally against the War in Ukraine...
This should be considered as a breach in the ceasefire! S23

Crap, it was rally against crisis enough far from center of Moscow.
Nothing in common with Ukraine.
Now it's mourning rally in memory of Nemtsov, in the center of cause.
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#33
(03-01-2015, 03:14 AM)bh Wrote:
(02-28-2015, 11:14 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Nemstov murdered two days before a rally against the War in Ukraine...
This should be considered as a breach in the ceasefire! S23

Crap, it was rally against crisis enough far from center of Moscow.
Nothing in common with Ukraine.
Now it's mourning rally in memory of Nemtsov, in the center of cause.

I'm curious bh, what type of government do you really want? Do you want a single strong leader, or do you want a representative style government? Many Russians don't care, but many also want either of the two above.

Also, is Fascism alright with you? Or do you really know the definition? Remember, Hitler was a National Socialist, and Mussolini was a Fascist. Both were Collectivist types of government.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#34
(03-01-2015, 11:04 AM)John L Wrote: I'm curious bh, what type of government do you really want? Do you want a single strong leader, or do you want a representative style government? Many Russians don't care, but many also want either of the two above.

Also, is Fascism alright with you? Or do you really know the definition? Remember, Hitler was a National Socialist, and Mussolini was a Fascist. Both were Collectivist types of government.

I don't need leader prepaid by US. It's for sure.
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#35
(03-01-2015, 11:04 AM)John L Wrote: I'm curious bh, what type of government do you really want? Do you want a single strong leader, or do you want a representative style government? Many Russians don't care, but many also want either of the two above.

I'm surprised you have to ask ... given the origins of the word "slav"ery. S6
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#36
(03-01-2015, 11:32 AM)bh Wrote:
(03-01-2015, 11:04 AM)John L Wrote: I'm curious bh, what type of government do you really want? Do you want a single strong leader, or do you want a representative style government? Many Russians don't care, but many also want either of the two above.

Also, is Fascism alright with you? Or do you really know the definition? Remember, Hitler was a National Socialist, and Mussolini was a Fascist. Both were Collectivist types of government.

I don't need leader prepaid by US. It's for sure.

Prepaid? By whom? And do you have any choice?

And remember, US is not prepaying anything. Think about this. When Motherland collapsed from Communism, did the US take advantage of this collapse and buy Russia? Did it attack you as you were told for decades? Did it take any advantage of your obvious weakness to conquer you?

That is just something to ponder as you hear State controlled media crank out Putin side of everything. Isn't Fascism just wonderful? No need to think for one's self, because State is happily doing all that for you.

Oh, and yes Obama sucks Big Time! But in two years he will be gone, and hopefully we will have had enough of his Collectivist crap that we will not vote in another one. Its that "Learn through experience" sort of thing. When is Duckbutt going to vacate his elected office?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#37
bh Wrote:Crap, it was rally against crisis enough far from center of Moscow.
I was reading that it was a rally against the war in Ukraine. Anyway, the oposition in Russia is too small to change anything.

In the context of an oligarchic dictature, Putin is not that bad a leader. And that explains why he so popular. But nations which are not Russia (i.e. Ukraine) wants to live in the same environement that the West enjoy. They don't want an oligarchic dictature, even one presided by Putin.

Even if the new Ukrainian governement is still mostly oligarchic and coruption is still high, the process is started to become more like the West. In Russia such a process is still very far from starting.

Nemtsov being killed in a drive-by shooting is not something extraordinary in Moscow. In Moscow you can hear shooting every night (or so to speak). Rich all poeple drive 4x4 cars and think that they are the best of the world. Police is completely bought off.

Good luck if you want to change anything there.

JL Wrote:Many Russians don't care
Average Russians are totaly indifferent with politics. They like Putin only because he is not worse than another. But even those who like him know that the system is rotten. Russians have zero trust in the political system. They simply don't believe it serves anything at all.

And I also believe that Putin or an opposition leader won;t make a big difference. Evene if they want to change the system, they can't.
At best they can try to influence it so that it evolutates in the good direction and become more normal after a few decades... But Russia will always be Russia.
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#38
(03-01-2015, 03:08 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Nemtsov being killed in a drive-by shooting is not something extraordinary in Moscow.

For real?? A "drive-by" is far too unreliable for an assassination. Apparently four of six shots fired resulted in fatal wounds (i..e NOT an amateur). Perhaps gang bangers in your locale have much better marksmanship fred, but here in the U.S., "drive bys" are far more likely to miss or hit multiple bystanders than their intended target. A "drive by" is hap hazard. This was very precise. To your point, political assassinations are nothing new in Putinville. But would you have called it a "walk by" if they'd thrown him off a roof? If anything this exceptionally un-extraordinary. Just another uncivilized criminal act in a uncivilized criminal nation.

more here.

The second article discounts the notion that the snow removal truck was employed as cover. It also holds out the possibility of the killers being identified. Both notions are equally as unlikely.

It would be so much more refreshing if the folks who defend this shit would simply state ... "we killed the fucker because he insulted our dear leader" ...
[Image: tumblr_lxebhayLrv1qkiuzwo1_400.jpg]
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#39
(03-01-2015, 05:13 PM)mr_yak Wrote:
(03-01-2015, 03:08 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Nemtsov being killed in a drive-by shooting is not something extraordinary in Moscow.

For real?? A "drive-by" is far too unreliable for an assassination. Apparently four of six shots fired resulted in fatal wounds (i..e NOT an amateur). Perhaps gang bangers in your locale have much better marksmanship fred, but here in the U.S., "drive bys" are far more likely to miss or hit multiple bystanders than their intended target. A "drive by" is hap hazard. This was very precise. To your point, political assassinations are nothing new in Putinville. But would you have called it a "drive by" if they'd simply thrown him off a roof? If anything this exceptionally un-extraordinary. Just another uncivilized criminal act in a uncivilized criminal nation.

more here.

The second article discounts the notion that the snow removal truck was employed as cover. It also holds out the possibility of the killers being identified. Both notions are equally as unlikely.

It would be so much more refreshing if the folks who defend this shit would simply state ... "we killed the fucker because he threatened our dear leader" ...

I totally agree: it certainly wan't a 'drive-by' shooting. The second link postulates that it was probably committed by someone standing behind a lamp post. But I don't believe so. First off, if that person had been there, he would have been noticed and out of place. The girlfriend would know that to tell the police.

Now, the automobile 'get-away' was coordinated with the killer, but somehow I would not be surprised if the "get-away" car was traveling at the same speed as the snow removal truck.

My first guess is that the killer had 'hopped' a rid on the slow moving snow removal vehicle, and unseen had gotten off as he approached the couple. Then he shot the victim, and walked to the 'get-away' vehicle that had been following the truck.

Post Edit Addition: Another thing. Perfect coordination would be necessary in a professional hit job. So ensuring that the killer behind the lamp post, the truck, and the 'get-away vehicle, would be in perfect position with each other, the odds are almost slim to none. BUT, if the killer was on the back of the truck, everything could fall right into place.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#40
The list is long and growing ... and needs more recent updates.

John L Wrote:Perfect coordination would be necessary in a professional hit job. So ensuring that the killer behind the lamp post, the truck, and the 'get-away vehicle, would be in perfect position with each other, the odds are almost slim to none. BUT, if the killer was on the back of the truck, everything could fall right into place.

Yes, "Perfect coordination" would be necessary. This would include 'properly' cleaning up the mess.

Quote:By 2:30 a.m. Moscow time on Saturday, Nemtsov's body had been removed from the scene. Traffic on the bridge, which spans the Moskva River, had resumed. A municipal worker hosed the bloodstained asphalt, washing away the last traces of a shocking assassination. Passersby, policemen and journalists milled through the area, sparking fears among some observers that the quick clean-up of the crime scene could hamper the investigation into the murder.

Check!

Again ... why hide behind a 'hampered' investigation? ... or blame the opposition? ... or blame jihadists? ... or blame whatever? If the intent is to frighten, blame seems inefficient... so why not just straight up say they killed the SOB because he was "up to no good" and vilify him (maybe show doctored pictures molesting children, etc..) and then get on with their least kept 'secret' war on Ukraine?
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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