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Middle East Meltdown, Pt. 4
#1
Here are three young girls, headed for the bright lights of the New Islam. Nothing beats the Sweet Smell of Success, so they say. S5



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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#2
These girls don't know what they're doing literally. Pray for them.

About Turkey. IMO, Turkey has assisted ISIS, it's impirically proveable. Turkey would love to see the shia setback and they could care less how many Arabs die doing it,just like we could care less.

The dumbass just didn't realize these ISIS people are the full bore 7th century Mohamadans. They mean business, they are not compromising, they happen to know their koran&Mohammad's history and it won't surprise me if they end up creating some serious chaos in Istanbul the next year.

Erdogan believes in a 19th century version and the rocket scientist is soon to realize the difference I think.
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#3
(02-21-2015, 05:41 PM)Palladin Wrote: These girls don't know what they're doing literally. Pray for them.

They need all the prayer they can get.

Quote: About Turkey. IMO, Turkey has assisted ISIS, it's impirically proveable. Turkey would love to see the shia setback and they could care less how many Arabs die doing it,just like we could care less.

Hence the "nod and a wink". Letting them pass through the borders is more than enough help, and also gives Erdogan 'Plausible Deniability'. Politics at its very best. Shock

Quote: The dumbass just didn't realize these ISIS people are the full bore 7th century Mohamadans. They mean business, they are not compromising, they happen to know their koran&Mohammad's history and it won't surprise me if they end up creating some serious chaos in Istanbul the next year.

Erdogan believes in a 19th century version and the rocket scientist is soon to realize the difference I think.

I assume you are referring to Erdogan as the 'Dumbass', correct? There are a whole lot of Dumbasses out there, and difficult to keep track of them all. S5
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#4
Yea, Erdogan.
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#5
(02-21-2015, 05:49 PM)John L Wrote:
(02-21-2015, 05:41 PM)Palladin Wrote: These girls don't know what they're doing literally. Pray for them.

They need all the prayer they can get.

On a positive note, at least this particular community in Britain is beginning to show proper alarm when their daughters are peeling off to join a death cult.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#6
I suspect they are going to grow up awfully fast when they arrive at their destination, and discover it wasn't what they thought. It would be interesting to have some way to follow them, as in type of movie diary, just to see them react to what is happening to them.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#7
Only problem with that would be, it would have to be a movie w/o rape, slavery, beheadings and that's the 90% of Mohammad's path. That's what is so fascinating with ISIS, these people think they are doing God's will acting like Hitler.

It really is an Adolf Hitler type regime, we haven't seen one in a while. Add in rape as a righteous move.

Anyway, Turkey partially invaded Syria to protect a tomb, but, the amoral jerks wouldn't allow Kurds previously to go help their brothers against ISIS. You guys can have your stupid NATO alliance, I don't recognize it.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/02/...-syria.cnn
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#8
(02-22-2015, 03:21 PM)Palladin Wrote: Only problem with that would be, it would have to be a movie w/o rape, slavery, beheadings and that's the 90% of Mohammad's path. That's what is so fascinating with ISIS, these people think they are doing God's will acting like Hitler.

It really is an Adolf Hitler type regime, we haven't seen one in a while. Add in rape as a righteous move.

Anyway, Turkey partially invaded Syria to protect a tomb, but, the amoral jerks wouldn't allow Kurds previously to go help their brothers against ISIS. You guys can have your stupid NATO alliance, I don't recognize it.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/02/...-syria.cnn

Its not a Hitler type regime, really. The Nazis, if religious were into Aryan mythology. Islam is religion, albeit crazy religion. And ISIS is working to bring on the Return of the spiritual entity for the end of times. You need to read the article you posted: What ISIS Really Wants. I'm just getting into it, because it is so long. But Graeme Wood, a Canadian, is pretty much right on. I suspect when you finish, you and I will know a lot more about Islam than when we began.

As for NATO, it has really served its purpose. Who knows, perhaps we will need another one like it, it the Duckbutt decides to bite off more than he can chew, much less digest.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#9
I was really using Hitler regime as a comparison of the amoral brutality, not saying Hitler was into a religious enterprise.

Concerning that article. What I think it demonstrates is NOT what Islam is, it demonstrates what Mohammad was about and in theory what Islam "should be".

This is why I think ISIS is long term great news for everyone but it's direct victims, they actually know their Koran, they are acting like Mohammad did and they are confrontational with fellow Muslims, they are going to force them to look at their Koran's closer.

Eventually, all Muslims will at least secretly begin to examine the Koran to see for themselves and that's when each might have a faith crisis.

Our faith isn't different in this regard. I haven't acted like Jesus did, so my Christianity is not representational of Christ's actions. Most Muslims have not emulated Mohammad.

The great difference is if you act like Mohammad, you are not admirable and are a psychopath, if you act like Christ, even the atheist begrudging admires us.
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#10
(02-22-2015, 04:52 PM)Palladin Wrote: The great difference is if you act like Mohammad, you are not admirable and are a psychopath, if you act like Christ, even the atheist begrudging admires us.

Agreed. And that is why Islam is caught in a Catch 22 situation, where it's damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't. And for that reason Christianity will definitely be destined to assimilate humane religious Muslims. In fact, its doing it now, as shown in another thread, to the tune of around five million a year. And a famous Islamic schollar, who I showed on Youtube, acknowledged this. And that is why ISIS goes out of it way to slaughter and do perverse things to Christians, more so than others. They are trying to send a message to living Muslims.

Personally, I don't think Islam can ever be reformed, unless it becomes a sect of Christianity. The Big Mo has them stuck in the 7th century and only he can modify his 'so called' religion. And he's dead already. Too bad.

There is only one Messiah, and he led the way of change for the world, including Judaism. And that is why Jews are having so much trouble reconciling their Old Testament with the New. By not acknowledging Jesus/Yeshua, they too are caught in that Catch 22 bind. They've really gone almost the extra mile to reform, but most of them still haven't gone the distance. And the finish line is Messianic Judaism, which just keeps growing and growing. I suspect it too will become an Officlal Jewish part of Christianity.

This is why there are so many G-dless Jews around. They are caught in something that is a spiritual dead end. And they don't believe they have any reason to be religious. So they change their religion to Collectivism/Socialism/Marxism. Everybody has to have something higher than themselves to worship. Its in our genetic makeup.

But concerning Islam, its stuck on Failure. It can't really change, or it is no longer Islam. Christianity can't lose, because the philosophy of Loving one's Neighbor, kindness, and consideration to others, is something that will never go out of style. Amen!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#11
There's a fine book you might want to take in about this. "Searching for Allah, finding Jesus" by Nabeel Quereshi.

He was a good young man around 19 when 9-11 happened. It stunned him and at first, his response was, "man this ain't Islam". American Muslims according to him typically are way more "normal people" than eastern Muslims, plus he says the violence isn't something they know is in the Koran.

They are raised in a patriarchal, non questioning culture, dad and Imam are the law and they tell nice stuff about Islam only. Nabeel says most Muslims don't know the Koran( wouldn't you agree most we Christians don't know the bible?), so they don't realize the historical crudity of Mohammad or the historic facts about Jesus, the crucifixion and eyewitness accounts of the resurrection.

It took Nabeel years, but, he converted.

I swear I think this brutality plus ISIS shoving it in everyone's face is going to cause a re-examination among at least a lot of Muslims. They won't be able to satisfy themselves with "they are hijacking our religion", the reality will be, "they are acting out the original style of our religion".

This: http://www.answering-islam.org/ is an organization run by a Muslim to Christ convert, very knowledgeable gentleman on their stuff and our's.
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#12
I've been looking him up for about 45 minutes now, and he is quite interesting. There also seems to be another Nabeel Quereshi, who is a prominent Pakistanian film director, and they even look alike.













Lord, he's all over Youtube, and I see some real debates with Muslim experts and clergy. I'm going to watch some of them. I just watched the short one at the top. He even speaks some positive Korean. S5
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#13
(02-22-2015, 09:22 PM)Palladin Wrote: They are raised in a patriarchal, non questioning culture, dad and Imam are the law and they tell nice stuff about Islam only. Nabeel says most Muslims don't know the Koran( wouldn't you agree most we Christians don't know the bible?), so they don't realize the historical crudity of Mohammad or the historic facts about Jesus, the crucifixion and eyewitness accounts of the resurrection.

I can't really answer that, and can only speak for myself. As for myself, I was steeped in the bible growing up in Alaska. I was a member of the Bible Memory Association, and went through all their passages that we young folks had to learn verbatim. I even read all the bible stories for Old Testament and New as well. So, my knowledge of the basics of the bible, were only natural. I'm sure most Christians did not study it like I did, but I have no idea how much others knew.

Quote: I swear I think this brutality plus ISIS shoving it in everyone's face is going to cause a re-examination among at least a lot of Muslims. They won't be able to satisfy themselves with "they are hijacking our religion", the reality will be, "they are acting out the original style of our religion".

This: http://www.answering-islam.org/ is an organization run by a Muslim to Christ convert, very knowledgeable gentleman on their stuff and our's.

Yeah, as more actually ask the hard questions and take the time to search for the truth, the more of them are going to make the switch. How does the saying go about being able to attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#14
That last statement of your's is why I oppose the natural desire for we non Muslims to just say "Islam sucks" or "Muslims are Neanderthals" . That won't help a thoughtful Muslim reconsider is why.

Nabeel was led to Christ by a thoughtful, patient American Christian friend from college who eventually joined an evangelism group that does use the tactic of "Islam sucks"(in fact, you've accessed it and posted some of their stuff here above I think). So, Nabeel doesn't associate with that crew, he knows that is harmful to the higher cause.

You just can't get an ear with that attitude.
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#15
Alessandro Bruno explains why the possibility of becoming involved with Libya would not be a good thing: Western Intervention in Libya a Recipe for Disaster

Quote:A military solution, however, would be at best ill-considered and at worst catastrophic; after all, it was outside military intervention that is largely responsible for Libya’s current mess.

The main reason why a military intervention, even one in the guise of a peacekeeping mission, is unwarranted is the sheer complexity of its crisis, which, Islamic State aside, had already become more complicated and difficult over the course of the last year. One of the main problems is that by intervening, any international force would necessarily have to adopt a local political ally – either the Eastern ‘government’ in Bayda led by Prime Minister Abdullah al-Thani (and backed by General Haftar) or the Western government in Tripoli led by ‘Dawn of Libya,’ a group related to the Muslim Brotherhood and backed by Islamist militias. Both are threatened by ISIS, but foreign military intrusion would be biased and rather than restoring the conditions for the resumption of a political process extended to all of Libya’s social and tribal components, it would likely choose to back General Haftar’s forces and ultimate rule.

He goes on to discuss the less than favorable alternatives available. It looks like Qadhafi was the least problem of all. Which brings up the Chinese proverb about being careful of what one wishes for, because...........................
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#16
Palladin Wrote:The dumbass just didn't realize these ISIS people are the full bore 7th century Mohamadans....
they happen to know their koran
I have seen a documentary about the Taliban once and they showed fighter in the field outside their vehicle with the AK47 in their hand. While waiting for the convoy they planned to ambush to come, they killed time reciting Quran's versets at random. One young recruit was slapped in the face by a slightly more senior one because he made a mistake...

I'm sure all hte IS fighters od the same.

Now how can one still say that the Islamic Jihad has nothing to do with islam?

Palladin Wrote:it won't surprise me if they end up creating some serious chaos in Istanbul the next year.

Erdogan believes in a 19th century version and the rocket scientist is soon to realize the difference I think.
Yes. The IS tends to fight against their sponsors. It wouldn't be logical not to want to attack what's remain from secularism in Turkey.

Erdogan opened the door to more Islam in Turkey, the IS will just rush in it like an intruder pushing open your entry door.

Palladin Wrote:swear I think this brutality plus ISIS shoving it in everyone's face is going to cause a re-examination among at least a lot of Muslims. They won't be able to satisfy themselves with "they are hijacking our religion",
Unfotunately all Western and non-Western, and Muslim and non-Muslim (well, the whole world) leaders are constantly repeating that IS has nothing to do with Islam.

Because of that it will take an extra effort intellectualy for the average muslim to question their own religion. It's already difficult in their environement, with on top of that they keep listening their leaders and even western leaders telling this non-sens, it will be a miracle if it happens.

But miracles do happen, when the Devil is there...

It's seems to me humanly impossible to look at what IS does and stay muslim...



Palladin Wrote:wouldn't you agree most we Christians don't know the bible?),
JL Wrote:I was a member of the Bible Memory Association, ( S11 ) .... I'm sure most Christians did not study it like I did, but I have no idea how much others knew.

If a christian attends the sunday mass every week (tolerantly letting him or her miss once in a while), I'm positive that after 20 years this person has got a moreless complete knowledge of the Bible. At each mass, one story of the old Testament + one story of the Gospel + sometimes some apocryphe writting is read and commented. OK, most poeple are half asleep during that time, yet it's difficult not to learn it when you attend. But for some reason they don't know that they know the Bible.


JL Wrote:
Alessandro Bruno Wrote:Western Intervention in Libya a Recipe for Disaster
At the same time you have this unbelievable comment:
Obama Wrote:The situation in Libya continues to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States
link

Same speech as for Iraq prior 2003.

This is true however I don't believe (I have said that repeatedly) that the root cause was Western Intervention.

Western Intervention is bad because it waste time, money and lives while achieving nothing. Just bombing temporarily some group that we don't like but before and after nothing changes.

That's because the West has no religous plan for the Middle East while the problem is religious.
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#17
Just relating to "knowing our bible", you 2 are from a better paradigm than I was. American Fundies really hear the same message, "get saved, don't sin".

Not a lot more. That's the main reason I changed churches, I just wasn't intellectually satisfied with that.

Libya is off the pr radar right now, but, look at what the hell America the beautiful has caused THERE? It's insane what we are doing to people and it truly is "disgusting" as hell. MV is at least partially accurate about the US.
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#18
Yes, Palladin, the catholic teaching (the one I know) is more about behaving rightly, doing good around you than fearing hell because of your sins.
I remember that the main message constantly repeated was that God is love and therefore forgives our sins. That the worse sins, those which could forbid you to enter Heaven, are being bad with or not loving others (in a very general way) and being rich, or more generaly, materialist (e.g. Happy the poors!).

Some very commen-sens type of advice. So obvious that after a while I didn't feel the need to listen what I already knew, but for others who continued to attend, it couldn't be bad to listen again and again to this.
You guessed, I'm not of the generation who attend the mass every week...
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#19
JL Wrote:Ron, how'd you get on here? The thread is supposed to be closed, and Part 4 opened. Am I missing out on something?
Don't you know that God opens all the doors to Ron? S5



JL Wrote:Who was it earlier, who stated that Turkey and ISIS were allies? Can't remember now.
It was always supposed, not proven that Saudis and Turkey both supported IS, and Qatar a rival albeit similar group.

JL Wrote:But obviously that is not correct. All Turkey has done is to provide a "nod and a wink" to many including ISIS folks to cross the border.

That's what I mean about "support".
When you know who the IS fighters are and you let them go back and forth as they please, you are de facto collaborating with them, at least passively (but nothing is realy passive in politics).
Any normal nation, any normal leader who doesn't need to have his brain examined would have sealed their border hermeticaly against these jihadists.

Not doing so means that Erdogan had an interrest with the IS.

Of course this policy will backfire very hard for Erdogan.

JL Wrote:Turkey's real enemy has always been Assad and Syria
Not true. A few years ago Assad and Erdogan were good friend. Almost signed a trade pact among other things.

But it's not uncomon to break and shift alliances in this region.
Assad one day, IS another, etc... This is normal.
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#20
(02-23-2015, 07:15 PM)Fredledingue Wrote:
JL Wrote:Turkey's real enemy has always been Assad and Syria
Not true. A few years ago Assad and Erdogan were good friend. Almost signed a trade pact among other things.

But it's not uncomon to break and shift alliances in this region.
Assad one day, IS another, etc... This is normal.

Oh, really? That shows that I don't know as much as I assumed. S13
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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