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Catalan Independence & Spain's Future Economic Collapse
#1
58.8%
Sodomia delenda est

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#2
It'll be rejected -- they are the only ones really propping the Spanish economy up. Head gov't won't lose any such land or people.
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#3
Is that the Basque's?
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#4
No, another region. Catalonia is the NE part of Spain.
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#5
Since EU aid programs are region based and not state based, full independance is irrelevant.

Increased federalisation of the state in question, or decentralisation if you will, is the actual trend.
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#6
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world.../18552069/
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#7
The article is right: Independance fervor has been fueled by the Debt Crisis, and IMO notably higher taxes.
In this sens I understand Catalans. If that means less taxes, less non-sens, less debts, less governement waste, less of all the things Spain has done before and after the Crisis, then I'm 100% with them.

Where I'm not supporting independantists, is when they have no clear program (Scots), have a program which will be devastating to the economy or opposite to less governement, or are far right/ neo Nazi (Flanders/Belgium).
Independance to break with a hopeless central policy is a valid and democratic way. But it must in this sens, not in the far-right sens "independance for the sake of it" (UKIP), or for something worse (DonBas)...

On a moral basis, I also think it's fair that a state desintegrates as in a healthy natural selection process after they have messed up big enough and long enough with unbearable debts and destructive tax burdens.
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#8
(11-08-2014, 08:08 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: The article is right: Independance fervor has been fueled by the Debt Crisis, and IMO notably higher taxes.
In this sens I understand Catalans. If that means less taxes, less non-sens, less debts, less governement waste, less of all the things Spain has done before and after the Crisis, then I'm 100% with them.

Where I'm not supporting independantists, is when they have no clear program (Scots), have a program which will be devastating to the economy or opposite to less governement, or are far right/ neo Nazi (Flanders/Belgium).
Independance to break with a hopeless central policy is a valid and democratic way. But it must in this sens, not in the far-right sens "independance for the sake of it" (UKIP), or for something worse (DonBas)...

On a moral basis, I also think it's fair that a state desintegrates as in a healthy natural selection process after they have messed up big enough and long enough with unbearable debts and destructive tax burdens.

Fred, do I need to repeat myself One More Time here? Its ethnic/tribal downsizing at work here. And it is the technology revolution that is fueling it. They want to preserve their uniqueness.

All this debt crisis and other things are just the catalyst that is just the spark. Think strategy, not tactics.
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#9
[Image: 1415544435_2014-11-09_164613.png]
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#10
And in Frog that means?
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#11
I agree with your unstoppable force, but it shouldn't be a force that destroys the economy.
This desire for independance should be remastered to preserve the advantages of the current economic union.

We must do better than arabs, don't you think?

Ed Miliband Wrote:Every nod and wink to those who want to leave sends a message to potential investors in our country that we are not open for business
....
If I am prime minister I will never risk your businesses, British jobs, or British prosperity by playing political games with our membership of the European Union

Marine Lepen (translated) Wrote:We must refind (return to) our national currency, as 95% of the countries of the world.
I translated it so that everybody can understand the incredible stupidity of this sentence.
The € zone lives much better than 95% of the rest of the world, minus the US. But in the US too, states don't have national currencies.

In fact she doesn't even think if what she says makes sens. She only see the success of UKIP and knows that saying such things will bring her votes.
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#12
Why would it destroy the economy? Perhaps hurt it temporarily, but destroy is permanent, correct? S5
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#13
80%
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#14
(11-10-2014, 02:29 AM)mv Wrote: 80%

Its only a matter of time. But note, the situation in Catalonia is the polar opposite of Scotland. The Scots voted independence down, because they were sucking on the British tit, i.e. getting something for nothing. But in Spain, Catalonia is contributing almost a quarter of Spain's total output. And they are tired of it. So naturally, they are convinced they can do better on their own.

And they're right too. And Spain, naturally can't afford to allow this, so they are doing their best to coerce them into staying. But it ain't going to work in the long run. Catalonia is going to make like a tree and leave, sooner or later.

My guess is that this is going to be going on all over the world, and maybe here in the Good Ole' USofA. Texas is pulling far more of its share of the economic weight here. So the pressure is going to keep mounting for Texas, perhaps Louisiana, and others, will be more than willing to cut and run from all the Lefty states.

This entire fragmenting thing is going to be most interesting. Mexico.....? I wonder if it too will break up. Quebec.....? It is sucking on the Canadian tit, and eventually the other states are going to be ready to bid them a fond farewell. Indonesia.....? Too many isolated islands could cause this.

But China? This is going to happen. And when it does, the casualty rate could be astronomical, with slinging nukes around over it all. There could be up to a hundred million dead as a result.

I'm not going to live through this century, but I'm pretty sure it is going to be more bloody than the 20th century.

We are certainly living in Interesting Times. S18S6
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#15
Well, we will see how this develops. Cameron already condemned the vote. S13

One thing to realize about the Scottish referendum: there is a large group of people there that depends personally on financial assistance from London... all the various Arabs, Pakistanis etc, any guesses which way they voted? Any guesses about the results if they did not vote?
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#16
(11-10-2014, 11:49 AM)mv Wrote: Well, we will see how this develops. Cameron already condemned the vote. S13

Condemned which vote: Catalonia vote?

Quote:One thing to realize about the Scottish referendum: there is a large group of people there that depends personally on financial assistance from London... all the various Arabs, Pakistanis etc, any guesses which way they voted? Any guesses about the results if they did not vote?

That's what I stated in first paragraph. Also, Islam is very much pro-Socialism, as exemplified by almost every Arab country. England's Labour has its own niggers to use in elections. S13
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#17
Quote:Condemned which vote: Catalonia vote?
yes

Quote:That's what I stated in first paragraph.
not quite... I'm saying that Islamic "pro-Socialist" vote alone made the difference. It may be 10%, surely 5%.

further: there is a surprising amount of interest to Catalonia from Crimea/Donbass sites/bloggers...they feel a parallel somewhere....including a detailed article on the pre-history of the Catalonian vote...if anyone is interested enough, I can post a link but you will need to use google translate.

further: on top of 80% vote for independence there is another 10% for "independence within Spain".
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#18
(11-10-2014, 02:19 PM)mv Wrote:
Quote:Condemned which vote: Catalonia vote?
yes

But where is the link? I need it to read the story. And I did a search but didn't see anything. Link?
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#19
Too late now, I closed the window.... S6

Reuters version of the story does not use "condemn" but in essense is that
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#20
(11-10-2014, 03:05 PM)mv Wrote: Too late now, I closed the window.... S6

Reuters version of the story does not use "condemn" but in essense is that

You are lazy, you know that? Gah
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